The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[cwDeici]

Can Greyjoy use his airforce on Hokkaido - the whole shebang of fighters, bombers, CAS, and maybe even the surviving fragments - to effectively attack the KB and maybe sink one or more of its CVs?

I guess they would have difficulties finding the KB?

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: ADB123

how is it possible that my fighters on the CVEs performed so badly?! they didn't even engage the raids...look at the first raid....10 fighters lost on each side and that's all.... the CVEs don't suffer the "sitting in base" penalty right?

Unless something has changed in the Betas, any CV, CVEs included, fly fewer planes if they are in a shore/base hex. Only the AI is immune.

As an aside - all of the "ammo explosion" messages are a good lesson for everyone who wants to use their CVEs as Combat Carriers...

Good luck -

I read somewhere that CVEs in shallow water fly at 100%operations. CV/CVLs are cut to 50% operational launch ability.
Another question GJ. What was the size of the CVE TF?
Should we try to keep the CVE TFs under ship size of 14? I recall something about a CV TF "effected by more than 14 ships".
What was the commanders naval/air rating?
And what is the name of the commander.
Please excuse me for being obsessive analytical.

[Canoerebel]

I am glad to summarize the rule to clear up the abundant and near-perpetual uncertainty that attaches to this rule.

The depth of the water has nothing to do with carrier operations.

The presence of land has nothing to do with carrier operations.

It is only the presence of a base that affects carrier operations. In a base hex, fleet carrier (CV and CVL) air operations are halved. CVE air operations are unaffected.

So, a fleet carrier operating in a hex that is part land and part water is not affecte. But a fleet carrier operating in a base hex is affected.

[crsutton]

Whoa...I take a few hours off and miss all the action. Sorry about your mini disaster but to put it in perspective, I firmly believe that it is a much less significant disaster inflicted on you than what you did to Rader in the last two months. You can recover in time but he cannot because he just can't drive you out of Hokkaido. Take a week off to relax and regain your perspective. Sometimes time spent with a girlfriend can be much better than time with AE. Perhaps you won't win in 45 after all. Big deal, you will have more time to play, get to see some fun late war toys and we all get to read a great AAR.

Rader deserves much credit. It was a beautiful plan and he pulled it off with no flaws. His deception in the Pacific was a good one. I don't want to rub dirt into your wound but Rader did what he "had" to do-attack you with his fleet in the only place that mattered, Northern Japan. He had no other options. For that reason your carriers should have been there because it is the one point on the map where you knew he would show up sooner or later.Nothing else he does anywhere else on the map matters and that still applies after your defeat. This is where you will fight him again because even though he cracked you on the head pretty hard, it still is not enough to remove him from the dilemma that he is in.

It is regrettable that Allied subs do not work in a picket line. Considering that they all carried advanced surface search radar at this point in the war they should almost always spot the Japanese fleet. But they don't and we know they don't. For this reason, you always need a picket line of ships on any open ocean front where the enemy can sweep in. Five CVEs with patrolling TBFs on them spaced at ten hex intervals would have spotted any move by KB. You most certainly might have lost two or three CVEs but would have saved 30 more in the end.

I will say nothing more about Allied naval flak. The fact that you only shot down 90 aircraft with flak demonstrates how totally screwed up this aspect of the game is. They have done so much to fix this great game. However, I am at a loss to explain why this has not been addressed

Anyhow, a little victory disease hurts a bit but in the end will make for a more interesting game for the rest of us [:D]

[cwDeici]

I'm surprised he waited that long to go through with a gamble like this, I thought Rader had lost focus and was floundering. By the time Hokkaido fell I was expecting a huge fleet engagement within the month, and by the time those three torps clunked into the Akagi way down south I thought he'd completely lost it. What clever bait! Also I'm surprised he didn't rely more on massive Kami waves like I expected, I guess he really is shy of pilots.

At any rate he might be back with his KB as soon as he can replace most of his losses.

[Chickenboy]

Hi GreyJoy,

I haven't kept up on this AAR, but keep hearing good things about it elsewhere in the forum. Anything interesting happening in the last few game months?

Regards,

Chickenboy

[Chickenboy]

[;)]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
I will say nothing more about Allied naval flak. The fact that you only shot down 90 aircraft with flak demonstrates how totally screwed up this aspect of the game is.

Dood...I thought you weren't gonna say anything more about Allied flak? [:'(][&:]

[Vetamur]

Wow.. yeah, you cant leave for a few hours without something happening.

I hope you recover GJ, especially your morale, which seems to have taken the biggest hit. Live and learn as they say. Good luck in continuing the good fight.

[GreyJoy]

Yup guys...after a good sleep and a cup of coffea everything is fine again
 
See u later with some updates

[CaptBeefheart]

Wow, sorry to hear about this tactical defeat.

I think you can disband your fragments and then rebuild the entire squadron for a number of PPs. You might test it with one fragment to make sure it works. Anyway, you should be able to get all of those CVE VFs and VTs back in action within a couple of months if you have the PPs, airframes and pilots.

Not that you need my advice, but you should really play this up with Rader as a massive loss, and then hit him hard when and where he least expects it. [;)]

Cheers,
CC

[ny59giants]

Shikuka - I first read of these attacks on Rader's AAR and was wondering why your CVEs were not up here?? They would have been protected from KB at least. You can have a size 9 AF there and could have taken your CVE fighters and placed them on CAP.

You seem to have placed all your eggs (CVEs) all in one basket (at one base). Why??

Tactical and Strategic planning: Time to reflect and decide where your assets all over the board are going to be used in regards to the North Pacific and the Japanese mainland. Right now his raiding CVs are preventing you from sending lightly escorted TFs from USA/Pearl to the South Pacific. IMO, this is diverting your attention away from Hokkaido and Honshu.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Wow, you had me worried there for a moment. I thought something had gone badly wrong.

About the only thing that could really hurt you at this point is if you lost most of your fleet carriers and/or most of your good landing ships. You didn't, so you're fine. Even losing a zillion CVEs (which is a big morale hit, naturally), isn't going to really hurt you. You can work around it. You can be creative.

Unless I missed something, I see no reason you can't invade Honshu on schedule. So, am I missing something?

How many aircraft did rader lose on the day?

Now, before you turn turtle and withdraw into your shell, is there an opportunity to strike here? Did rader lose so many aircraft that he's neutered for a bit? Can you attack his fleet?

I totally disagree here. Have experienced it myselve and have seen it often enough in all kind of AARs, the CVE are VITAL for any Allied operation in areas where many big enemy airfields overlap, means mainly the Philipines and Japan itselve. The fleet carriers alone are by far not enough to be anywhere a real cover for your invasion on Japan, they can´t even defend themselve for two or three days against anything comparable we´ve seen in this combat report. Heck, my last PBEM saw me having more fighters on my CVE fleet than on my fleet carriers alltogether, even though my losses were minimal. I had to find out the hard way that even 1500+ fighters on my carrier fleets (CV, CVL and CVE together) massed in an area were not enough to hold out for more than one day (actually I suffered on day one already and fled full speed). This with 2/3 Hellcats and 1/3 Corsairs on all my carriers, no crap like Wildcats.

If the Allied loses all those CVE, the Japanese actually have a fair chance to kill the rest of the fleet too if the Allied attempt to come close enough for another time. Just my 2c.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

What to do with those fragments...nearly 300 a/c now belongs to frangments...they cannot take replacements....what shall i do?

I would disband them and use both the ac (if not the crappy FM2) and the pilots as replacements.

[Gridley380]

GreyJoy, I feel your pain, but note that he still took twice as many aircraft losses as you did. In fact if I read the summary report right he's lost more than twice as many A/C as you overall! He's got to be hurting for pilots and planes.

I vote for invading as soon as possible, putting your own CV/CVL force in place to intercept KB when it comes calling, as it will have to do. Attack quickly, before he has time to recover from the damage his air groups have taken.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: castor troy
I totally disagree here...

I didn't say that CVEs weren't important and very helpful. I said that under the circumstances, GJ can proceed with his invasion plans. He won't need to risk his fleet carriers. For goodness sakes, his invaison beaches are one to two hexes away from a friendly level nine airfield. That, and the fact that he has two-day turns and plenty of APA, AP, AKA, AK, LSD and LST will permit him to do what needs to be done. It won't be a bloodless coup, but it can be done.

[cwDeici]

ORIGINAL: castor troy
I had to find out the hard way that even 1500+ fighters on my carrier fleets (CV, CVL and CVE together) massed in an area were not enough to hold out for more than one day (actually I suffered on day one already and fled full speed). This with 2/3 Hellcats and 1/3 Corsairs on all my carriers, no crap like Wildcats.

It sounds like he hasn't lost much vis a vis the invasion, with 1.5k carrier fighters hacking it for less than a day.
Hokkaido as an airbase will do for launching a conquest of Honshu, but should he keep his CVs back in reserve or hope to ambush the enemy CVs during an invasion?

Anyway, it's obvious now that Rader is playing to win, not to lose by as little as possible... it might be be good to be even more cautious, or to set a trap, but the invasion will surely throw him off-balance by forcing him to react rather than take the initiative!

[Canoerebel]

GJ can speak to his own case, naturally, but I suspect he would keep his carriers back. The only thing that can keep him from victory is to lose the ability to supply his army and airforce on Hokkaido. If he lost his carriers, but rader still had his, the situation would become dicey.

[cwDeici]

I agree, but those carriers are definitely coming for Greyjoy's carriers, it's hard to feel safe when your enemy displays that kind of desperation and skill... not that emotion should enter into it if possible.

Thought about setting up an ambush, Greyjoy? I'm thinking he might try this again... it's not like he has anything to lose if he can't shut down your logistics.
... then again I suppose just setting up surface pickets will do the job by accepting a higher attrition rate.

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hi GreyJoy,

I haven't kept up on this AAR, but keep hearing good things about it elsewhere in the forum. Anything interesting happening in the last few game months?

Regards,

Chickenboy

Evil, evil man! [:D]