Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 Beginning of Turn

Real Turn updates when they happen (even my opponent can see them (if they want to look and are free to use them to their benefit))

Gomel Area

Looks like 3 Divisions for sure with possible Cav Division and another Soviet Division marked with yellow arros that is running but Forest ran out of gas it looks like.

Curious if that is the only CAV Division out here thus the ??? in the photo. Area will get recon to find out.

Jubjub did cut off the Brigade and Rgmt which I figured he would do. They both take a morale hit being surrounded.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 Beginning of Turn

Real Turn updates when they happen (even my opponent can see them (if they want to look and are free to use them to their benefit))

SouthEast of Smolensk

Soviets fade away into the Countryside as the pockets hold. Looks like the Soviet new line is at Bryansk.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 Beginning of Turn

Real Turn updates when they happen (even my opponent can see them (if they want to look and are free to use them to their benefit))

SouthEast of Smolensk Air Bombings

Soviets running mass unescorted bombings in the area. I haven't been too lucky catching these with auto intercept for many turns.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 Beginning of Turn

Real Turn updates when they happen (even my opponent can see them (if they want to look and are free to use them to their benefit))

SouthEast of Smolensk Air Bombings

I finally catch 1. 1 out of 6 isn't bad I guess. Will check my settings to make sure

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 Beginning of Turn

Real Turn updates when they happen (even my opponent can see them (if they want to look and are free to use them to their benefit))


Pocket at Vyazma holds. Although Jubjub was crafty and air transported one of the CAV divisions out. Ended up being a 3rd CAV division that was in Vyazma.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 Beginning of Turn

Real Turn updates when they happen (even my opponent can see them (if they want to look and are free to use them to their benefit))

Pocket near Rvhez

Final pocket holds.

Only one CAV escape from a pocket thus evading the POW camp this turn in total.

Total units destined to the POW this turn = 12 Infanty Divisions & 6 CAV Divisions.

[tyronec]

Does anyone understand this ? An example would be helpful
What are the chances say of a unit passing this test if it has 12MPs and requires 11MPs commit.

Also, I am not sure but I think I have had examples where units activate when they don't have enough MPs to move adjacent to the opponent and execute a deliberate attack when that attack has been across a river. Could it be that the MPs to commit are calculated in a different way to movement on the map.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Does anyone understand this ? An example would be helpful
What are the chances say of a unit passing this test if it has 12MPs and requires 11MPs commit.

Also, I am not sure but I think I have had examples where units activate when they don't have enough MPs to move adjacent to the opponent and execute a deliberate attack when that attack has been across a river. Could it be that the MPs to commit are calculated in a different way to movement on the map.

I believe I understand this but we need someone like "Loki the Jedi Master of WITE2 rules" to confirm

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 Beginning of Turn

Real Turn updates when they happen (even my opponent can see them (if they want to look and are free to use them to their benefit))

Air Losses

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 Beginning of Turn

Real Turn updates when they happen

Pilot Losses

Not doing too bad here. I am trying to keep the Luftwaffe fighter arm alive as long as possible.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Saving the turn and going to bed. 2 AM came quick and I have to pick up my daughter at the airport in the morning. Catch everyone sometime tomorrow and thank your for reading my ramblings.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Does anyone understand this ? An example would be helpful
What are the chances say of a unit passing this test if it has 12MPs and requires 11MPs commit.

Also, I am not sure but I think I have had examples where units activate when they don't have enough MPs to move adjacent to the opponent and execute a deliberate attack when that attack has been across a river. Could it be that the MPs to commit are calculated in a different way to movement on the map.

I believe I understand this but we need someone like "Loki the Jedi Master of WITE2 rules" to confirm

I think you'll need Joel for this one [;)]

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

[carlkay58]

As far as I know from experience, an activated reserve unit ignores enemy combat units. I have had them activate to defend a completely surrounded enemy unit (especially on turn 1 in the 41 Campaign) several times. I figured it was something like 'the reserves activated and came into the battle area while your units were encircling it'.

[tyronec]

I think you'll need Joel for this one

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

I think you'll need Joel for this one

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

I can't recall a reserve activation to a surrounded unit in all my games. I have seen activation to units in ZOC's though but I am sure you have to have at least 1 MP left over for that activation along with all other appropriate criteria.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

I think you'll need Joel for this one

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

Oddly, I think (c) is relatively straightforward (but utterly impossible to test).

So eg1:

Activating unit has 20 MP and would expend 10 to get to the battle.

We roll 2 dice, for the base MP the outcome is 1-20, for the move MP the outcome is 1-10, if the 'move' roll is => 'base' roll the reaction is cancelled. The maths are a bit of a pain, but I'd say that won't happen in much over 15% of instances (you have the trail of base rolls > 10 as an insurance)

eg2

Activating unit has 6 MP and would expend 4 to get to the battle.

So the base roll comes out 1-6, the move roll 1-4, again the maths are a pain to do in detail but I'd say you are looking at a 40% failure rate (you still have a safefy net but clearly the chance of failing goes up a lot)

I could well be horribly wrong, but that is what I think goes on.

So put it together and a well led unit with lots of MP and close to the battle is very likely to pile in (remember that the initiative leader value is hit by command chain penalties). Something 10 or so MP away becomes vulnerable to the vagaries of (c)

[jubjub]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: tyronec

I think you'll need Joel for this one

that para reads like its been copied down from E1 to WiTW to E2 so I'd guess its precise if you know the code.

I'd parse it into 3 criteria

a) the easy one, does it have the MP to reach the battle paying all the terrain and situational costs?
b) the almost easy one, die roll vs leader initiative, so any initiative could feasibly fail (assume a die 10);
c) the opeque one. I think there are two moderated tests. Roll a Die (with this capped by the move cost) - so it can't be higher than the move cost (?), compare to a die (capped by unit MP). I think its the second bit that matters here, even if (a) applies, its just feasible that a die roll gives less 'MP for the moment' than are really there and if its a long range reaction there is then a chance of this dropping below the comparison.

So crudely, can it reach, does it pass the command test and does some feng shui comparison of cost/available MP undermine the first two? Sounds feasible, a lot is in your control but there is a random element that can trip up the best set up.

Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

Oddly, I think (c) is relatively straightforward (but utterly impossible to test).

So eg1:

Activating unit has 20 MP and would expend 10 to get to the battle.

We roll 2 dice, for the base MP the outcome is 1-20, for the move MP the outcome is 1-10, if the 'move' roll is => 'base' roll the reaction is cancelled. The maths are a bit of a pain, but I'd say that won't happen in much over 15% of instances (you have the trail of base rolls > 10 as an insurance)

eg2

Activating unit has 6 MP and would expend 4 to get to the battle.

So the base roll comes out 1-6, the move roll 1-4, again the maths are a pain to do in detail but I'd say you are looking at a 40% failure rate (you still have a safefy net but clearly the chance of failing goes up a lot)

I could well be horribly wrong, but that is what I think goes on.

So put it together and a well led unit with lots of MP and close to the battle is very likely to pile in (remember that the initiative leader value is hit by command chain penalties). Something 10 or so MP away becomes vulnerable to the vagaries of (c)

Interesting, I've never seen a unit activate through ZOC, so it seems like the extra MP cost really lowers the odds of an activation, especially from infantry units.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: tyronec


Thanks Roger.
As Carl says I don't think 'a' works quite as described but clearly closer units activate more often. Actually I did a test and I know it doesn't.
As to 'c' it would be interesting to know what the exact calculation is but we get the gist.

Oddly, I think (c) is relatively straightforward (but utterly impossible to test).

So eg1:

Activating unit has 20 MP and would expend 10 to get to the battle.

We roll 2 dice, for the base MP the outcome is 1-20, for the move MP the outcome is 1-10, if the 'move' roll is => 'base' roll the reaction is cancelled. The maths are a bit of a pain, but I'd say that won't happen in much over 15% of instances (you have the trail of base rolls > 10 as an insurance)

eg2

Activating unit has 6 MP and would expend 4 to get to the battle.

So the base roll comes out 1-6, the move roll 1-4, again the maths are a pain to do in detail but I'd say you are looking at a 40% failure rate (you still have a safefy net but clearly the chance of failing goes up a lot)

I could well be horribly wrong, but that is what I think goes on.

So put it together and a well led unit with lots of MP and close to the battle is very likely to pile in (remember that the initiative leader value is hit by command chain penalties). Something 10 or so MP away becomes vulnerable to the vagaries of (c)

Interesting, I've never seen a unit activate through ZOC, so it seems like the extra MP cost really lowers the odds of an activation, especially from infantry units.

Correct.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 (Real Time update)

Air Phase

All areas recon'd and showed nothing new. So, the counters on the map is the Soviets new front line which is a huge pull back in the Kiev area. Gomel showed nothing else new. So it is wide open & is a calculated risk on the Soviets part. Only one area showed two units that showed up near Krivoi Rog an Airborne Brigade and Cav unit shown with orange arrows. This looks to be a wide open gap between Krivoi Rog and the Airborne Brigade marked in green.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 (Real Time Update)

Ground Phase

Near Nikolaev my 1st Rumanian stack was attacked by the Soviets. I can see that the Soviet 11TD participated in the attack and the relative strength. Thus I have a good idea how much it can take. To make this work I have to be able to get to the orange X marked on the map with 1 RFSS Brigade. The 1 RFSS Brigade has plenty of MP's for the job. Recon didn't show anything there but it is a swamp hex though which makes it doubtful. We want these two Soviet units to be retreated back towards my lines marked in light blue.