Reluctant Admiral Feedback

[John 3rd]

Thank you Sir. I will change that.

[darbycmcd]

One more request for the next version, although it would be a bit of (boring) work, could you please use the naming convention for land squads/devices they use in DBB, at least as far as the nationality indicators for the allied devices. It makes it soooo much easier to figure out which pool is for whom. For example, in the normal db there are 3 versions of 105mm how. but they track to 3 different upgrade paths. it is sort of frustrating. actually, in general i would say use the ground units of dbb if they would let you. the reimagined base units add an element of planning to the game.

thanks for the mod, we are having a good time with it!

darby

[John 3rd]

Darby,

Glad you're playing and enjoying yourself.

I haven't looked at DBB. How is there unit designations different? Could you provide a specific example? I've been working on differing ideas for 3.0 so it might be possible if I have a clearer knowledge of what you are talking about.

Thanks,
John

[darbycmcd]

the first thing is small but helps me a lot as an allied player planning LCU upgrades. In the stock db, there are several devices that have the same names but are part of different national TO&E, for example there are 3 different 105 mm howitzer, but they are from 3 different countries. In the Babes mod they just rename them "PH 105..." or "CH 105..." like I said it is small but it really helps!

A larger change is the way they restructured base units. I believe they are more historical as far as composition and capability. There is less total AV support available so it makes the player plan more carefully where they want large airbases. I think some of the issues with the air model are down to it being far too easy to maintain very high tempo of air ops, this change makes it less easy.

I really think your mod can also be somewhat balanced simply by playing with withdraws off. I know some people freak about this but it isn't such a big deal. It gives the allies a few more land units, and several more squadrons of training AC. If you don't change the units, they are restricted for the most part and can't upgrade, so they don't do much other than releasing other units from the training role. And it seems plausible, the Allies, especially the US would have scaled their response to Japan by its perceived strength so they simply would have sent more to the Pacific vice Europe. I think it helps balance within the historical framework.

I have only gotten into mid 42 with the two games I am playing so I can't really say what will happen in the mid-game when it is more about allied 4E bombers though....

[John 3rd]

Thanks for the commentary and clarification Good Sir. Will think on it. Am working on some ideas right now and will take these thoughts with me as I work on things.

kfsgo--Shifted those HQ to 'static.' Thanks for that simple help.

[FatR]

Not much seems to have been written since I last had time for the mod...

For now, just so won't lose the information, two more bugs to report (sorry if they were already mentioned):

-J6M1 still seem to have wrong picture. It should be, at least, the picture of Ki-83, not Shinden.
-The research facility for A6M5d-S in Maebashi seems to not be properly changed for A6M8-S.

John, have any ideas about desirable changes for v.3? I'd prefer to play more before giving my opinion on general balance of the mod, but I think I'll write up possible ideas here for the future:
- Setting Judy's range back to historical level, it now falls short of, thanks to the droptank removal.
- Maybe upping the service rating of Mitsubishi Ha-33 planes available in 1943 to 2, again to reflect RL relative unreliability of the earlier versions of the engine.
- Giving Ki-61 line its upgrade path to Ki-100 back, although in with improved Ki-61 KAI in Scen 70 there might be a reason not to follow it.
- It requires more research, but I'm increasingly starting to believe that the stock got it wrong by completely shafting early Ki-61s range and giving Tojos relatively decent one, and in RL it was the opposite. However, as this is a gamechanger, I want to see more of these planes' performance in the game before thinking of introducing it.

[John 3rd]

Good notes to remember regarding J6M1 and A6M5d-S!

Stanislav--I have been quietly experimenting with some ideas reflecting lessons learned so far in my game with Lew as well as some PMs from players with on-going campaigns. Do you want me to toss out my thoughts and/or ideas?

I'd be happy to do this but I don't want to discourage anyone with a campaign already going. Would a serious discussion of RA 3.0 be an issue for anyone currently playing the Mod?

[FatR]

I edited the post above a bit. I think we shouldn't actually make 3.0 before at least some of us plays at least to early 1944, but why not discuss the ideas? Well, when there is time...

[John 3rd]

I like chatting about stuff and we can then see where it goes.

Would like to fire the first salvo Sir? [:D]

[BigBadWolf]

If I may add few, have you guys thought about introducing G5N Liz as precursor to G8N? We had it in CHS, IIRC. The plane was crap in RL,just few prototypes were made and it never went into production but maybe under assumptions of RA, it may be viable to have it.

[FatR]

I don't want to either make G5N ahistorically good, or to introduce a deliberate trap option.

At the moment I having some comments from historical standpoint about late-war Japanese planes, and some ideas on how to make various options more viable. Unfortunately, I need to see how said planes peform in the game before judging how they are actually modelled in the game. Maybe I'll play some Downfall against AI (no time for another PBEM commitment).

I do have one ready proposal for Allied side, though. In the future versions of the mod, Warhawks should be somewhat boosted and Hurricanes should be nerfed. In RL, Hurricane was considered one of the worst, if not the worst Allied fighter still in production by 1942, while Warhawks stacked decently against Japanese planes. In AE Hurricanes are the best second-generation fighters Allies have, and Warhawks, I feel, are more inferior than can be explained by differences in pilot quality. Other people can comment on this, and I'll appreciate any comments from bigred about the quality of his Warhawk/Kittyhawk pilots (mine mostly have EXP around 50 and Air around 67-71 at the moment, although surviving early-war weterans score much better than newbies fresh from the training program). Even if my feeling of Warhawk inadequacy is generally wrong and born out of Zero/Hayabusa slight speed bonus I enjoy in my game, Hurricanes should not be better than Warhawks anyway, and merely nerfing Hurricanes wouldn't nearly be fair to the Allied players.

[John 3rd]

Think a slight improvement of the Warhawk is a good idea.

I want to revisit the logic of the Mod for any new people reading this Thread.

We based this whole thing on Admiral Yamamoto taking over the Navy Ministry and being able to FORCE his views through the Kaigun's Officer Corps. In a nutshell those views were the following:

1. Emphasis on Aircraft Carriers and speeding up of several CVL conversions.

2. An expansion of the Naval Airpower, pilot pool, and heavier investment into Naval Air R&D.

3. The creation and expansion of several shipyards to better handle the 4th Circle Building Program where Shinano and Yamato #4 are not even thought, the replacing of Taiho with 3 Shokaku-Kai, and a streamlining of DD and CL construction to specific yards for an improvement in efficiency (shortening build times).

4. The TOTAL support of the A6M design team to the exclusion of all other Government-Sponsored fighter aircraft (George was privately designed and built) that specializes the A6 into a CV-Based Line and an stronger, armored Land-Based Interceptor set of models.

5. The construction and outfitting of Naval Construction, Base Force, and Naval HQs with a limited amount of engineering vehicles to aid in the expansion and repair of bases.

6. The formal adoption of the 3.9" AA weapon as the heavy AA weapon of the Fleet.

7. Every facet of the above-mentioned items to PAID FOR by reducing supply and fuel prior to the war beginning. I think the total ended up being about 1,000,000 less at start.

8. Lastly, a much more forward-deployed Fleet ready to crush the Allied Forces so that the SRA could be quickly captured before resources and oil run out.

It must be noted that ALL these changes begin upon Yamamoto's assumption to power in July-August 1939. This provides the Kaigun with roughly 30 months to accomplish everything with Japan's Navy peaking in mid-1943...

Did I miss anything?

[bigred]

Giving Ki-61 line its upgrade path to Ki-100 back, although in with improved Ki-61 KAI in Scen 70 there might be a reason not to follow it.

Seems to me the this fix would have huge impact.  I have one game as Japs and another as allies. I plan to build 90 ki61Ds a month... once the 61a is available I will switch the factories to d model research....

[John 3rd]

After tossing out the vision of what the RA Mod set out to do here is a reality check.

I think we should dial back the level of Japanese Naval Air experience. We've expanded the size of the force, added a few units, and expanded the pilot pool. Figure this is started at earliest early-1940. The simple act of pulling out even 10-20% of the veteran China/Naval pilots to create a Corps of Trainers SHOULD bring the experience down some.

In keeping with the view of the Fleet, the reduction of experience shouldn't impact the CVs much but should affect the CVLs and Land-Based Naval Air. I'm not talking a huge percentage but I think a net reduction of up to 10% would be fairly realistic reflecting the expansion/creation of new units and training.

The benefit here would be to realistically portray the changes AND help the Allied player somewhat by a slightly lower caliber of Japanese pilot. This, seemingly, makes sense to me.

Have I just proposed heresy???

[BigBadWolf]

Have I just proposed heresy???

Yes, you did. Boys, get some firewood and matches, we have a live one here.

I couldn't comment from my experience yet, but from what I see in both yours and Stanislav's AARs, Japanese air power may need to be toned down a notch. Experience reduction seems like a most elegant solution.

I generally like the idea of this mod being something in between Scen 1 and Scen 2, this is main selling point, at least as I'm concerned. Maybe if get in more goodies for AFBs?

[darbycmcd]

I have been playing your mod for a while now and generally quite like it. I think there are a couple things that maybe have pushed it a bit toward fanboyism though. I think it is somewhat important to maintain some of the basic challenges facing the Japanese side during the war. Two I think you should reinstate -

pilot experience - return the graduation level of experience to stock level (35 for IJA/IJN). I know this is low, but it was a major factor in the war that Japanese pilot training was inadequate. Combined with the ability of the Japanese to produce huge amounts of improved plane types (or just huge amounts of any type), it changes too much the complexion of the war. The allies did not face hordes of very modern planes with experienced pilots from the mid-war period on. If the Japanese player wants to have lots of trained pilots, then he has to devote on map resources to make that happen. Force the player to face the trade-offs to get the different results.

base units - a major feature of the of the Japanese war effort was poor logistics planning which meant low operational availability of ac and reduced ability to construct forward bases. Even in stock, the operational tempo is far too high on both sides for air ops, mostly because the super-abundance of AV. I know it doesn't feel that way, but players routinely put up plane raids of more than 100, often several 100, planes day after day. It is too easy for allied 4E bombers to attack in huge raids in the mid-war, but it is even more at odds with history for the Japanese to put up some of the raids I see day after day of several hundred planes. I think the approach of The Babes mod is the right one, in reducing the amount of support available, forcing the player to have fewer large bases and make hard choices about where to base ac. I don't see the justification of increasing base forces for the Japanese.

Anyway, that is my take on it. I know it is a bit against the grain, but I think it would help to maintain some of the vulnerabilities in the Japanese war-fighting ability that characterized the fighting. I think it helps the mod if it doesn't just do away with so many of the problems facing the Japanese, but just focuses on a couple of plausible changes.

And please change the device names!!!! hahaha, it is soooo much easier to figure out TO&E upgrades as the allies....

[FatR]

I don't see any changes in pilot graduation EXP levels, certainly compared to Scen 2 the situation is worse. I'm not sure if this even can be changed in mods at all. For that matter, pilots graduating with lower EXP and overall skill levels might be a boon, as this will allow to train key skills on-map faster. At least I get this feeling from comparing IJNAF and IJAAF's speed of pilot training (the latter gets greener replacements).

John is talking about on-map units EXP/skill levels. And, well, I agree, that their skill levels probably should be decreased a bit, as to make early game less one-sided. The balance of airpower late in the game will depend on strategic and logistical decisions taken by players, rather than on starting forces, anyway (yes, Allies can and should impact potential Japanese industrial capability at the opening stages).

[John 3rd]

Damn---Stanislav I didn't think you would go for the lower XP at start for on-board Naval Air. Teaches me, once again, never to assume...

In the Mod the Army Air pilots and aircraft are pretty much not touched whatsoever. This is the mark of RA. Nearly 90% of the changes impact the Navy. I do know there was some tweaking of Army aircraft to better reflect history and engine modifications within the scenario.

Navy pool pilots enter the game in 1941 at 50%, 55% in 42, 50% in 43, and then plunge down in 44-45.

I've found that I am pulling pilots so fast for on-board training that the percentages drop pretty quick as more-and-more are brought forward and trained in the Home Islands, Manchuria, and China.

[John 3rd]

Regarding darby's comment on some Allied goodies lets review what the Allies gain for their side:

1. Static training squadrons in San Diego for VF, VB, VT Navy PIlots. The American's can do a limited pilot training program like the Japanese.

2. Additional carriers are in the game as well. The Americans gain 3 new Independence CVLs that arrive earlier (start of 1943) and have the ability to convert 4 AOs at the start of the war into CVEs.

3. The Allies start with two garrison forces at sea:
a. One is in the Coral Sea, covered by all the ANZAC CA-CL, bringing the rest of the units that make-up the Brigade in Port Moresby, a Base Force, and several squadrons of aircraft. Though destined for PM this TF can go anywhere.

b. The other is at Pago Pago carrying more Marines, a Base Force, and two squadrons of planes. It is covered by a CL and some DDs.

4. The Americans gain a batch of F4F-R elements for placement on their CV to add a better degree of Search/Recon ability.


Things that could be added/changed:
1. Start the Lexington TF down at Pago Pago covering that mission. The Vindicator Squadron would be on-board and could deploy with the forces at Pago-Pago. Starting with an American CV IN the South Pacific could be quite nice!

2. Change up the SS.
a. Bring the S-Boats (and a Tender) to Pago Pago and turn it into a Sub Base.

b. Place a couple of S-Boats around Wake. You might actually be able to SMACK something approaching the doomed Marines!

3. Augment the American Forces Covering Pago Pago with several more cruisers from the West Coast and/or add CA Minneapolis who arrives on Dec 8th.

4. How about start with those old BBs (Idaho, New Mexico and friend) at Panama so they could be in the fracas within a month or so?

5. How about raise a few of the American aircraft reinforcement rates? Wouldn't want to do much but that might help...

[John 3rd]

Have kept thinking about Yamamoto correcting seeing 'the Decisive Battle' as taking place farther to the east then what the Japanese had planned for (Kaigun) and had a set of ideas:

1. Expand Saipan into a better forward base and start Combined Fleet HQ there? Pull in some of those new units we moved to Truk and the Marshalls and place them there with shipping. The Japanese player could then go wherever he wants with them.

2. To make life slightly easier on the Allied Player we move the massed CVLs and a STF to Saipan so the forces deployed there have plenty of Cover for operations. The Japanese player could send them into New Ireland, New Britain, New Guinea, or SW towards Ambon and Timor.

If the Japanese want to CRUSH shipping in the DEI they can. IT will just take two-three days to start the mayhem. This will also give the Allied player a chance to run...

One cannot tell I've been percolating on the 3.0 Variant for a while can you?