The Bitter End - Topeverest (A) vs Admiral Kamikaze (E)

[topeverest]

Should fall next turn. level 6 forts on atolls just chew up divisions. Look at that reduction in AV 500 down to 15 net!

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Ground combat at Roi-Namur (132,114)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 4824 troops, 7 guns, 141 vehicles, Assault Value = 113

Defending force 4385 troops, 50 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 36

Allied adjusted assault: 15

Japanese adjusted defense: 5

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 6)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
269 casualties reported
Squads: 24 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 9 (5 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
283 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 22 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd Marine Div /1
109th USN Base Force /1

Defending units:
I/81st SNLF
II/81st SNLF
7th JNAF Coy
6th Base Force

[topeverest]

I am quite concerned about his potential play for Vladivostok. Because that is where all the supply is. I have selected supply stockpiling elsewhere in the event he makes it to Vlad.

I can't think of another bad outcome, other than I get egg on my face for a period of time.

Am I missing something?

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


EDIT: Your subsequent post about Hailar (rather than the forts bracketing Mishan that I thought you were referring to) seems to suggest the fort retreated with the other units. I have seen this result too, although the fort sometimes has to abandon its biggest guns to retreat. In my game I currently have some "static" base forces and a fort on the run.

Japan starts the game with a fair number of units at Mutankiang ready to go wherever needed. As the date for Soviet activation approached he may have moved some down near Yenki to make a spoiling attack on Vladivostok. i.e. he likely has more units following that one.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

I am quite concerned about his potential play for Vladivostok. Because that is where all the supply is. I have selected supply stockpiling elsewhere in the event he makes it to Vlad.

I can't think of another bad outcome, other than I get egg on my face for a period of time.

Am I missing something?

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


EDIT: Your subsequent post about Hailar (rather than the forts bracketing Mishan that I thought you were referring to) seems to suggest the fort retreated with the other units. I have seen this result too, although the fort sometimes has to abandon its biggest guns to retreat. In my game I currently have some "static" base forces and a fort on the run.

Japan starts the game with a fair number of units at Mutankiang ready to go wherever needed. As the date for Soviet activation approached he may have moved some down near Yenki to make a spoiling attack on Vladivostok. i.e. he likely has more units following that one.

You lose the best port for the Allies on the Sea of Japan, until they can take Sapporo or Fusan, but I presume Olga and some of the other ports can handle a ship or ten. You are right that the Allies are not badly hurt by this, but for Japan anything that looks like a victory right now is a morale booster.

Anyway, we should know shortly whether he has more units coming.

[topeverest]

Roi Namur falls without fanfare.

Of the three Manchukuo forts I am sitting on, 1 was destroyed and two were reduced. I would expect that the enemy forts will all be destroyed next turn.

50K empire troops are traped in Kotoe 116.42. I took two of my para battalions and dropped them in the two bases that provide the only routes of retreat from far eastern Manchukuo. fuchin 115.41 and lopei 114.39. I don't see those forces getting away, but it will take a week or so for the sieging reds to get to Kotoe.

The empire did not attack where they had pushed a division across to Russia near Vladivostok, but at least one more division is coming to its aid. Time is against the enemy here. while I need to be dinged for not foreseeing such a possibility, the opportunity is rapidly closing for him to siege Vlad. 5 divisions are coming from various locations via rail and road movements. All this said, he still could achieve the spoiler attack. It will be an exciting annotation to the campaign.

We also had our first large scale air to air combat over Vladivostok last turn. He sent a dozen air and airfield attacks, probably every airplane he had available. Keep in mind the major red base is Rybolov two hexes away, so he isn't facing the main red air force. He did manage to damage the vlad airfield and could close it. I moved out non essential air units and have massed AA at rybolov, a level 9 airfield. All this said, the empire air force clearly is superior, so I would expect him to be able to keep the red air force at bay until the pincer closes (hopefully next game month).

I evacuated the entire naval fleet to points north until vlad is no longer in the hot zone

Allled forces finished a week long refit and have begun loading for their next invasion (manadao)

[topeverest]

We are playing a HR that the Ruskies and rest of allies cannot be in the same hex

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: topeverest

I am quite concerned about his potential play for Vladivostok. Because that is where all the supply is. I have selected supply stockpiling elsewhere in the event he makes it to Vlad.

I can't think of another bad outcome, other than I get egg on my face for a period of time.

Am I missing something?

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


EDIT: Your subsequent post about Hailar (rather than the forts bracketing Mishan that I thought you were referring to) seems to suggest the fort retreated with the other units. I have seen this result too, although the fort sometimes has to abandon its biggest guns to retreat. In my game I currently have some "static" base forces and a fort on the run.

Japan starts the game with a fair number of units at Mutankiang ready to go wherever needed. As the date for Soviet activation approached he may have moved some down near Yenki to make a spoiling attack on Vladivostok. i.e. he likely has more units following that one.

You lose the best port for the Allies on the Sea of Japan, until they can take Sapporo or Fusan, but I presume Olga and some of the other ports can handle a ship or ten. You are right that the Allies are not badly hurt by this, but for Japan anything that looks like a victory right now is a morale booster.

Anyway, we should know shortly whether he has more units coming.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

We are playing a HR that the Ruskies and rest of allies cannot be in the same hex

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: topeverest

I am quite concerned about his potential play for Vladivostok. Because that is where all the supply is. I have selected supply stockpiling elsewhere in the event he makes it to Vlad.

I can't think of another bad outcome, other than I get egg on my face for a period of time.

Am I missing something?

You lose the best port for the Allies on the Sea of Japan, until they can take Sapporo or Fusan, but I presume Olga and some of the other ports can handle a ship or ten. You are right that the Allies are not badly hurt by this, but for Japan anything that looks like a victory right now is a morale booster.

Anyway, we should know shortly whether he has more units coming.

I was thinking more of cargo convoys bringing in supply to the Russians. Is that off the table too?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: topeverest

We are playing a HR that the Ruskies and rest of allies cannot be in the same hex

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



You lose the best port for the Allies on the Sea of Japan, until they can take Sapporo or Fusan, but I presume Olga and some of the other ports can handle a ship or ten. You are right that the Allies are not badly hurt by this, but for Japan anything that looks like a victory right now is a morale booster.

Anyway, we should know shortly whether he has more units coming.

I was thinking more of cargo convoys bringing in supply to the Russians. Is that off the table too?

I'm not sure about the game engine on that - does it intern non-Russian convoys even after Soviet Activation?

[topeverest]

Yes, we decided the Allies not allowed to manually supply the ruskies with in-game merchants, but when we designed this beast, we never even looked for any CD convoys. IN fact there are two (and we didn't put them in) coming into Vlad one in 44 and one in 45 (both past). It is a total on 1.5 million supply points.

Note - soviet off-map production is 4K per turn, and there are 150 HI / 260 LI. that is a manufacturing capacity of about 4500 points per day. I will have to watch the consumption rates. You may be on to something. they may run out of supply. there are roughly 5M points of supply total in Russia right now. Certainly little to spare when you consider it is sprawled across the country,

For certain, I need to capture the industry in Manchukuo as fast as possible. We did amp-up empire production capabilities in manchuko for this mod, so if I can get to Harbin and Port Arthur, I should be modestly OK.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

[I'm not sure about the game engine on that - does it intern non-Russian convoys even after Soviet Activation?

I am playing a sandbox game with Russia activated. They will gladly accept whatever you bring, including troops and planes. But sometimes they refuse to refuel your ships so I have a fuel stop at Adak. I had to send an AKE and AS and AVPs to help their navy and patrol planes wean themselves from Vladivostok. Their 138mm guns on their DDs will not replenish at a normal sized base for DD guns (3, IIRC).

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm not sure about the game engine on that - does it intern non-Russian convoys even after Soviet Activation?

I am playing a sandbox game with Russia activated. They will gladly accept whatever you bring, including troops and planes. But sometimes they refuse to refuel your ships so I have a fuel stop at Adak. I had to send an AKE and AS and AVPs to help their navy and patrol planes wean themselves from Vladivostok. Their 138mm guns on their DDs will not replenish at a normal sized base for DD guns (3, IIRC).

Thanks!

[topeverest]

Downfall?

Are you doing an AAR?

Love to hear more of your thoughts and learnings

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: witpqs

[I'm not sure about the game engine on that - does it intern non-Russian convoys even after Soviet Activation?

I am playing a sandbox game with Russia activated. They will gladly accept whatever you bring, including troops and planes. But sometimes they refuse to refuel your ships so I have a fuel stop at Adak. I had to send an AKE and AS and AVPs to help their navy and patrol planes wean themselves from Vladivostok. Their 138mm guns on their DDs will not replenish at a normal sized base for DD guns (3, IIRC).

[Lowpe]

I have got a Downfall game going with Mind-Messing.

The start is very rocky, for both sides, since the pilot training is horrendous. In addition, Allies (my side) start with very weak recon and need to wait for the pools to build a little.

Stock game no Russia however.[:(]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Downfall?

Are you doing an AAR?

Love to hear more of your thoughts and learnings

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: witpqs

[I'm not sure about the game engine on that - does it intern non-Russian convoys even after Soviet Activation?

I am playing a sandbox game with Russia activated. They will gladly accept whatever you bring, including troops and planes. But sometimes they refuse to refuel your ships so I have a fuel stop at Adak. I had to send an AKE and AS and AVPs to help their navy and patrol planes wean themselves from Vladivostok. Their 138mm guns on their DDs will not replenish at a normal sized base for DD guns (3, IIRC).

I have tried Downfall a couple of years ago against the AI and it was brutal. The CV fleet could never close with the coast of Japan because too many kamikazes could get through CAP. I have not tried it with the updated version of the game that allows more intercept actions by the CAP, so it might be a good one to do now. I was also a newbie at using B-29s and lost too many operating at max range. [:(]

To answer your question - my current sandbox game is Scenario 1. I am still playing with setups to see what works and what doesn't, so I learn things like the possibility to supply Russia. I sent a Japanese recon over Vladivostok to trigger activation. The need for more supply to keep the Russians rolling and repairing soon became apparent.

Given supply, the Russians can put together an awesome artillery Death Star. I use it to demolish static units to nothing so I can take the industry by occupation the following turn (one unit must have a deliberate attack scheduled to ensure the flip that turn). No industry is destroyed on a flip, but I have not figured out whether the extra Manpower, HI, Armament and Vehicle Production captured actually helps the Russians. I have captured aircraft assembly plants too but not engine plants, so I do not know it they would produce usable aircraft. Russian Nells would be interesting! [:)]

PS - another thing I learned - regardless which nation provides the majority of attacking troops, the HQ of the first unit in the stack determines the ownership of a captured base. Since US units get listed first, they usually claim the base. I tried one place with an Australian unit first in the stack, but it reported to SWPacHQ, so the base belonged to SWPAC. Only important if you have restricted units you want to fly in (air units) or move forward by airlift and need their nation's flag on the new base.

[witpqs]

I sent a Japanese recon over Vladivostok to trigger activation.

I had no idea that mere recon would trigger activation!

[topeverest]

I will try to monitor supply closely. I expect it to fall, but the math is unclear by how much.

[topeverest]

Invasion armada leaves from Darwin headed back into harms way. I am struggling with targets. part of me wants to go for manado and the other wants to land in Eastern Java to augment a western Java attack. I will have to make up my mind shortly.

American CV armada almost to Ponope for a quick refit. about to being the load of troops for Kusai invasion.

In Russia, Empire again did not attack where she crossed near Vladivostok. I feel more confident that she wont, even if I am still rushing reserve troops to the area. Empire split her air forces on Vlad and on the main eastern army in Manchukuo. The latter suffered massed AA and was entirely unsuccessful, but the former stopped any repairs on the base.

I have decided to abandon Vlad in the short run for the Rybolov super base, as I will be able to defend it - and it is closer to targets I Manchukuo. Russia unloaded her LBA on muntankiang 111.42. The level 9 base is damaged 50% and could be knocked out next turn. empire loses 102 planes to A2A and AA compared to 25 ruskie. I was beginning to think I would never win an air combat!

[topeverest]

I am just abut to break out of the mountain in the west from AArshan. Think could go faster after that. Also, at Hailar, the last enemy fortification was taken. I am moving up my air force / moving my base of supply from borzya

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: topeverest
In Russia, Empire again did not attack where she crossed near Vladivostok.

Maybe this move was a feint designed to pull several Soviet units away from the offensive in Manchuria?

[topeverest]

Sorry for the delay, but real world issues seem to affect us more than most.

I received a very demoralizing update since last posting. Since we are basically play testing and making design changes on the fly as we play this game, we are periodically sharing game information that the vast majority of players would not. One area that we are particularly interested in booty haul relative to full economic output. Put simply, could the allied sub and air campaign constrict the empire economy considering we were not allowing strategic bombardment by air and the empire economy could theoretically be supported at twice scenario 1 size. finally remember we supercharged all booty locations too to facilitate a larger economy should the empire be willing to risk it.

Keeping in mind that my strategy has been to occupy oil factories throughout the game. My obvious successes include taking or reclaiming burma, sumatra, Oz, and NZ. I obviously am about to take Java and Manchukuo.

The obvious and demoralizing answer is that the empire economy has yet to shrink. The empire is still running at full speed pushing our capital ships for the fights yet to come. despite me sinking 191 TK and 20 AO. UGGHHH! what did I sign up for!!!!!!!!

[topeverest]

mpire CV and BB navy hasn't shown itself except at distance all month. They have been hanging out around Jolo and Guam. Unfortunately, I am not ready to go after either. It is not a secret that the enemy is making defense in depth preparations in the Philippines. I expect kami hell to be sure.

The immediate allied objectives are:

Kusai in the CPAC - 5 divisions landed last turn and will begin to reduce the base as fast as possible. Once this base is in allied hands, I will move up B24's and bomb the remaining empire strongholds in Marhsalls (Angilaplap, making, mili, and Tarawa) out of supply for eventual invasion. Note Tarawa probably is about or already out of supply. I am still waiting for recon to show strength has fallen 15% to confirm that she is ready to be invaded.

Also bombing ternate and ambon. Sibolga 44.79 is last empire stronghold on Sumatra

Java - allied minors have invaded on the eastern and western end of the island. After my demoralizing realization, I decided I couldn't just isolate Java, I needed to take the oil and HI. That is underway and hopefully will be complete by end of September.

Sumatra - allied minor troops continue to funnel off the continent and onto Sumatra as a base of attack for Borneo in 1 to 2 months.

China - that ball of Chinese troops has been chewing the empire defenses to hell in central China. The ball is attacking anything it can get its hands on and is currently moving generally towards Indochina. I am debating if to move to the coast with it, but that would be risky.