Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[stilesw]

Djibouti is not in the database

Ryan,

This request is a very easy fix. Added for the next DB release.

Turkmenistan, Kyrgistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan may also show up as well.

-Wayne

[orca]

I hope to initiate a discussion on China ASW sensor capabilities to include VDS, TASS, and sonobuoys. Precise info on the capabilities of modern China ASW sensors is unavailable. Therefore database characteristics of these are just guesses. The capabilities of China ASW capabilities can be reasonably considered to be less advanced than other countries with a longer history of ASW warfare.

However much of the China ASW technology in the DB is 1970s or 1980s generation, even for ships being launched in the 2020s. It seems reasonable to impose a technology “penalty” compared to some other countries. But a 40 year technology penalty for a country that, in general, is a world leader in technology seems too much.

What do others think?

[Tookatee]

All variants of the RC-12, the #3321 MC-12W, and the #3323 Shadow R.1 have an unrealistically low agility value of only .5 (this makes these aircraft less maneuverable than enormous cargo aircraft such as the C-5 Galaxy [with an agility value of 1].) These small turboprop aircraft have a rate of climb higher than that of the C-5 (2450 feet per minute vs only 2100 feet per minute on the C-5) and therefore have a much smaller turning circle. Because of this their agility value should be set at 1.2 (placing it above large cargo aircraft like the C-5, but below single engine turboprop attack aircraft like the #3745 Super Tucano.)

Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_C-5_Galaxy , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_C-12_Huron , https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraf ... aft_id=168 , and https://www.globalair.com/aircraft-for- ... ?specid=63

[stilesw]

Could we get an Iranian Quds-1 missile added to the DB please?
https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive ... he-quds-1/
Information is a bit sparse unfortunately.

Case,

If you can ferret out any more material on this missile it will greatly increase the chance of it being included in a future DB3K update.

Thanks for the request,

-Wayne

[CV60]

Minor error to DB3000 Weapon_1148 AGM-12A Bullpup aka ASM-N-7 aka GAM-83. The weight is given as 810kg. While I have been unable to find authoritative sources giving the actual weight of the AGM-12A, it was modified a year after release into the AGM-12B aka ASM-N-7b aka GAM-83A which has a weight of only 259 kg. See http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-12.html and attached The modification between the -12A and -12B was mainly in substituting a solid fuel rocket with a liquid rocket engine and improving the warhead. See also FLIGHT, 6 November 1959 (attached below). Therefore, a weight lower than the listed 810 kg is likely for the AGM-12A.

[Tookatee]

I think I know where they got the 810 kg value, as that's the weight of the AGM-12C and B, two of the most produced versions of the Bullpup. Also, according to your cited source after a year into production the Bullpup was updated to the A standard in 1960 and not the B (the Bullpup B did not enter service until 1964, where its 453 kg warhead boosted it up to its 810 kg mass.)

http://www.pmulcahy.com/PDFs/air_weapon ... ssiles.pdf This source that I found lists the Bullpup A as weighing 259kg, with corroborates what your source states about the warhead weight being about 113 kg for the Bullpup A.

[CV60]

ORIGINAL: Tookatee

I think I know where they got the 810 kg value, as that's the weight of the AGM-12C and B, two of the most produced versions of the Bullpup. Also, according to your cited source after a year into production the Bullpup was updated to the A standard in 1960 and not the B (the Bullpup B did not enter service until 1964, where its 453 kg warhead boosted it up to its 810 kg mass.)

http://www.pmulcahy.com/PDFs/air_weapon ... ssiles.pdf This source that I found lists the Bullpup A as weighing 259kg, with corroborates what your source states about the warhead weight being about 113 kg for the Bullpup A.

I think I know where they got the 810 kg value, as that's the weight of the AGM-12C and B, two of the most produced versions of the Bullpup. Also, according to your cited source after a year into production the Bullpup was updated to the A standard in 1960 and not the B (the Bullpup B did not enter service until 1964, where its 453 kg warhead boosted it up to its 810 kg mass.)

http://www.pmulcahy.com/PDFs/air_weapon ... ssiles.pdf This source that I found lists the Bullpup A as weighing 259kg, with corroborates what your source states about the warhead weight being about 113 kg for the Bullpup A.

< Message edited by Tookatee -- 9/27/2019 8:41:12 PM >

I agree. The AGM-12C Bullpup B, aka ASM-N-7b has a different warhead. The database correctly gives its weight at 810 kg. As far as I can determine, both the AGM-12A and AGM-12B should be 259 kg, and should be close to each other in their various dimensions. The article I attached specified that the dimensions and weight it gives are for the GAM-83A, which is the AGM-12B

[CV60]

Possible error in AGM-130A DB3000 Weapon_1903.
The database gives a range of 2-40 nm, and a release altitude of 65,000. In contrast, http://www.deagel.com/Offensive-Weapons ... 71006.aspx gives a minimum range of 5 nm, and a maximum release altitude of 30,000 feet. I have been unable to confirm these numbers with any other sources, but I have similarly not been able to find any different numbers.

Edit: These same changes should be made to the AGM-130C, AGM-130E, AGM-130F (DB3000 Weapon_59, Weapon_58, Weapon_56)

[Tookatee]

Here are two additional sources that support that 30,000 feet figure.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-130.htm
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets ... 0-missile/

[Tookatee]

All variants of the Chukar UAV (#943 and #2690-2692) erroneously have the Mk1 Eyeball sensor despite the fact that it is an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle that also has no camera to speak of (both IRL and in the sensor listing for each in the DB3000 database.)

Note the lack of any camera or small cage with a person.

[CV60]

Possible error on AGM-158A (DB3000 Weapon_920): The length is given as 4.72 meters. Multiple sources give the length as 4.27 or 4.26 meters. See https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/jassm/; Jane's Weapon Systems Vol 1: Air Launched, :AGM-158A JASSM (Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile), AGM-158B, JASSSM-ER and LRASM, 01 December 2013

Jane's and other sources also give the max range of the AGM-158A as being 200 nm (300km), as opposed to the 215 nm in the database. Jane's notes that this is an estimate.
The Air Force Armament museum states the range is "200+ nm" http://www.afarmamentmuseum.com/details-agm158.html. Jane's also states the JASSM uses either a "High-level" cruise altitude (which is not defined) or a "low-level (500 m) cruise altitude", as opposed to the 9 m AGL cruise altitude in the database.

Similarly, the AGM-158B JASSM-ER (DB3000 Weapon_11) is listed as having a range of 430nm. In contrast, Jane's gives a range of 500 nm. See also https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ag ... es-014343/ ; https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/jassm/ (giving the range as 1000 km/540nm). The 500+ nm range is also supported by a 2013 GAO assessment of the program. See https://www.gao.gov/assets/660/653379.pdf at page 81.

[Tookatee]

All variants of the Beechcraft C-12 Huron (Super King Air or 1900) (except for the RC-12 variants) are missing from the database. It is an American light cargo/VIP transport aircraft used by the Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps that has been in service since 1974. Most performance statistics for the aircraft could be copied over from the already implemented RC-12 aircraft, as they're simply variants of the differing C-12 variants equipped for SIGNIT/ELINT duties (with no significant impediments to performance.) The only addition would be that of a cargo/troop transport capability, which varies in capacity depending on the specific variant.

The aircraft has also been exported to: Greece (delivered in 1978, one C-12A), Saudi Arabia (delivered from 2013-2014, 10 Super King Air 350s), the ROC (Taiwan) (delivered from 1988-1990, 12 C-12Js), Peru (delivered in 2011, one second hand C-12J), Algeria (delivered from 2000-2001, six C-12Js), and Pakistan (delivered from 2000-2002, two C-12Rs modified for photographic reconnaissance)

A C-12W.


A Royal Saudi Air Force King Air 350ER.


A VIP transport C-12A


Sources: SIPRI Arms Transfer Database, International Institute for Strategic Studies, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_C-12_Huron , https://beechcraft.txtav.com/~/media/be ... tcard.ashx , https://www.globalsecurity.org/military ... ariant.htm , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Saudi_Air_Force , https://beechcraft.txtav.com/~/media/be ... tcard.ashx , https://beechcraft.txtav.com/~/media/be ... tcard.ashx , and https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/c12-huron/

[FrangibleCover]

The #1975 SA.365C Dauphin 2 commercial transport helicopter is equipped with a magnetic anomaly detector, which is MAD.

Additionally #4065 and #4120, the VC-137C Presidential Flight aircraft are listed in the database as Commercial when they were operated solely by the USAF, and the newer VC-25As are marked as USAF aircraft.

[anlgzl]

Hi,

Do yo have any plan to add "NSM Missiles" to "Littoral Combat Ship" for the US Navy. You can see article below.

"https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -missiles/"

[stilesw]

Minor error to DB3000 Weapon_1148 AGM-12A Bullpup aka ASM-N-7 aka GAM-83.

Logged.
-WS

[stilesw]

Possible error in AGM-130A DB3000 Weapon_1903.

Logged.
-WS

[stilesw]

Possible error on AGM-158A (DB3000 Weapon_920)

Logged.
-WS

[stilesw]

The #1975 SA.365C Dauphin 2 commercial transport helicopter is equipped with a magnetic anomaly detector, which is MAD.

Additionally #4065 and #4120, the VC-137C Presidential Flight aircraft are listed in the database as Commercial when they were operated solely by the USAF, and the newer VC-25As are marked as USAF aircraft.

Logged.
-WS

[stilesw]

Do yo have any plan to add "NSM Missiles" to "Littoral Combat Ship" for the US Navy. You can see article below.

Anil,

Possibly in a future DB update.

-WS

[CV60]

Possible error on DB 3000 Weapon_2733 AGM-176 Griffin A. THe database gives a range of 3nm. Several sources claim a range of 10nm for the air launched version. See http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Approva ... m_999.html . See also http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... eapons.pdf at page 113 (giving the range as 12+ miles)