OT: Corona virus

[warspite1]

Well I guess we'll know soon enough - either there are a mass of infections, hospitalisations and deaths from where these people are massing.... or there won't be. If it's the latter then Trump will be in full on 'told you so' mode and if its the former....

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

BTW, the guns are already out. What they hope to do against the National Guard, if it comes to that, is anyone guess. I fear that the victims will be, as usual, innocent civilians.

It's difficult for most Europeans to understand American 'gun culture' accurately. I sincerely doubt that these people, openly bearing arms, are going to do anything further than brandish them. If they had a more ominous revolutionary mindset, they wouldn't be congregating openly.

As a side note, I've never met a more polite group of people than at shooting ranges. Respectful, patient, polite, matter of fact and non-confrontational. I wonder why? [;)]

warspite1

As a European I stay out of 2nd Amendment conversations. It's an 'American thing' and important to a great many so no need for outsiders to wade in on a domestic issue.

As for whether guns are a problem in this situation, well its the same everywhere whether we like to admit it or not. Civilisation is a fragile thing. Right now, we simply do not know where this thing is headed and - just as important - what this means from an economic point of view. What everyone can agree on is that this situation could, if the right conditions come together, get really nasty for the world at some point in the future. But we are a long way off that (I hope) and in such an extreme situation I don't think having guns or not is going to make that much difference.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

BTW, the guns are already out. What they hope to do against the National Guard, if it comes to that, is anyone guess. I fear that the victims will be, as usual, innocent civilians.

It's difficult for most Europeans to understand American 'gun culture' accurately. I sincerely doubt that these people, openly bearing arms, are going to do anything further than brandish them. If they had a more ominous revolutionary mindset, they wouldn't be congregating openly.

As a side note, I've never met a more polite group of people than at shooting ranges. Respectful, patient, polite, matter of fact and non-confrontational. I wonder why? [;)]

Well, let's say that in S.Italy we understand gun culture... a bit more [:)]

What I fear, however, is how it takes only one. Frayed nerves + "ticking bomb" = guns rampage. And there are a lot of frayed nerves right now. I know that this is not my country, but I'm worried anyway.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I guess we'll know soon enough - either there are a mass of infections, hospitalisations and deaths from where these people are massing.... or there won't be. If it's the latter then Trump will be in full on 'told you so' mode and if its the former....

There will need to be accountability from all quarters when this is said and done. Those 'doom and gloomers' that said there would likely be 2,000,000 deaths or "50-70% of the population infected" in the United States based upon their 'models' need to be called to task and discredited if their predictive modeling is so abundantly flawed as to lead to breathtakinly bad public health advice.

While we're at it, I'd like the leaders of aforementioned countries (the United Kingdom, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg and France) to come out and explain how they utterly failed their people in dealing with this thing. Hopefully we'll have some resignations en masse, heartfelt mea culpas and pleading for forgiveness. But I think we'll get assignation of blame, passing the buck, bureaucratic machinations and the usual distractions from personal responsibility.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

BTW, the guns are already out. What they hope to do against the National Guard, if it comes to that, is anyone guess. I fear that the victims will be, as usual, innocent civilians.

It's difficult for most Europeans to understand American 'gun culture' accurately. I sincerely doubt that these people, openly bearing arms, are going to do anything further than brandish them. If they had a more ominous revolutionary mindset, they wouldn't be congregating openly.

As a side note, I've never met a more polite group of people than at shooting ranges. Respectful, patient, polite, matter of fact and non-confrontational. I wonder why? [;)]

Well, let's say that in S.Italy we understand gun culture... a bit more [:)]

What I fear, however, is how it takes only one. Frayed nerves + "ticking bomb" = guns rampage. And there are a lot of frayed nerves right now. I know that this is not my country, but I'm worried anyway.

It is my country and I'm not worried about it. Guys (well, mostly guys) have been open carrying like this around here for a long long time. It's a delicate dance that is not understood well by most outsiders, but we've managed to navigate this domestically for quite some time.

There are many things that I'm more worried about than a bunch of Second Amendment advocates legally and openly carrying.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I guess we'll know soon enough - either there are a mass of infections, hospitalisations and deaths from where these people are massing.... or there won't be. If it's the latter then Trump will be in full on 'told you so' mode and if its the former....

There will need to be accountability from all quarters when this is said and done. Those 'doom and gloomers' that said there would likely be 2,000,000 deaths or "50-70% of the population infected" in the United States based upon their 'models' need to be called to task and discredited if their predictive modeling is so abundantly flawed as to lead to breathtakinly bad public health advice.

While we're at it, I'd like the leaders of aforementioned countries (the United Kingdom, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg and France) to come out and explain how they utterly failed their people in dealing with this thing. Hopefully we'll have some resignations en masse, heartfelt mea culpas and pleading for forgiveness. But I think we'll get assignation of blame, passing the buck, bureaucratic machinations and the usual distractions from personal responsibility.

warspite1

I just don't get the pathetic "my country vs your country" mentality exhibited by many (not aimed at you). This is the world's problem.

I think we ALL want to know answers - real answers. Why for example were people flying in from Italy, China and Iran to the UK - and seemingly not being checked after it became clear there were issues in those countries?

I don't give a stuff about what country A or country B did or didn't do. I want world leaders to act like leaders and work together to beat this thing.

If we want recrimination and blame and payment due - well that come later.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

BTW, the guns are already out. What they hope to do against the National Guard, if it comes to that, is anyone guess. I fear that the victims will be, as usual, innocent civilians.

It's difficult for most Europeans to understand American 'gun culture' accurately. I sincerely doubt that these people, openly bearing arms, are going to do anything further than brandish them. If they had a more ominous revolutionary mindset, they wouldn't be congregating openly.

As a side note, I've never met a more polite group of people than at shooting ranges. Respectful, patient, polite, matter of fact and non-confrontational. I wonder why? [;)]

warspite1

As a European I stay out of 2nd Amendment conversations. It's an 'American thing' and important to a great many so no need for outsiders to wade in on a domestic issue.

As for whether guns are a problem in this situation, well its the same everywhere whether we like to admit it or not. Civilisation is a fragile thing. Right now, we simply do not know where this thing is headed and - just as important - what this means from an economic point of view. What everyone can agree on is that this situation could, if the right conditions come together, get really nasty for the world at some point in the future. But we are a long way off that (I hope) and in such an extreme situation I don't think having guns or not is going to make that much difference.

I agree. With the caveat that there's also a variety of outcomes that could be more favorable for a global outcome at some point in the future. Now we need to find those.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I guess we'll know soon enough - either there are a mass of infections, hospitalisations and deaths from where these people are massing.... or there won't be. If it's the latter then Trump will be in full on 'told you so' mode and if its the former....

There will need to be accountability from all quarters when this is said and done. Those 'doom and gloomers' that said there would likely be 2,000,000 deaths or "50-70% of the population infected" in the United States based upon their 'models' need to be called to task and discredited if their predictive modeling is so abundantly flawed as to lead to breathtakinly bad public health advice.

While we're at it, I'd like the leaders of aforementioned countries (the United Kingdom, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg and France) to come out and explain how they utterly failed their people in dealing with this thing. Hopefully we'll have some resignations en masse, heartfelt mea culpas and pleading for forgiveness. But I think we'll get assignation of blame, passing the buck, bureaucratic machinations and the usual distractions from personal responsibility.

warspite1

I just don't get the pathetic "my country vs your country" mentality exhibited by many (not aimed at you). This is the world's problem.

I think we ALL want to know answers - real answers. Why for example were people flying in from Italy, China and Iran to the UK - and seemingly not being checked after it became clear there were issues in those countries?

I don't give a stuff about what country A or country B did or didn't do. I want world leaders to act like leaders and work together to beat this thing.

If we want recrimination and blame and payment due - well that come later.

I get all that. But there is no *world* government that can be called to task for each country's own domestic failings relative to others. Not the UN. Not the OECD. Not the G8/9/12/12+1. Certainly not the WHO.

Each country is dealing with this global problem in its own way, with its own methods and its own strengths and weaknesses. If we can accentuate how well South Korea has gotten in front of this, which is fair, then we need also point out how the aforementioned countries have comparatively screwed the pooch. I think it's fair to point out who has done something well and how others have specific examples of poor relative performance.

And you probably should have omitted Trump's 'told you so' prospective commentary if you didn't want this to devolve into a political name game.

[Chickenboy]

From Worldometers this morning:

I find the disparate experiences between American states to be very interesting. Here's this morning's chart sorted by Deaths/M.

Real obvious problems in New York City greater region that are affecting neighboring 'commuter' states. And hotspots in Louisiana, Michigan, Massachusetts and DC to a lesser extent than NYC.

[Chickenboy]

Contrast that with states that have done comparative well (again sorted by the same Deaths/M):

Lots of big, mostly rural states with modest-low population density, but some real (positive) outliers. California and Texas leap out as 'success' stories. Our most populace state and second most populace state respectively have amongst the lowest mortality per capita.

The same testing disconnect here as in countries around the world. Mass testing (tests/M) isn't correlated to outcome. New York state at 30,000+/M people has tested 5x/M people more than the state of Texas, but the Deaths/M mortality outcome is 56x higher than Texas.

North Dakota testing about as many/M as New Jersey / Connecticut but with the latter having 40x the Deaths/M rates.

A domestic example of how testing for testing sake isn't associated with stemming the mortality from the outbreak. There's something else at work other than the rate of testing. It's what you do with the information that's important. In this environment, timely decisions and actions drive outcomes. Knowledge doesn't correlate directly with outcomes.

[durnedwolf]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

[:D]

ETA: I'm totally stealing that. [&o]

[Chickenboy]

These guidelines are easy for me to follow:

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

BTW, the guns are already out. What they hope to do against the National Guard, if it comes to that, is anyone guess. I fear that the victims will be, as usual, innocent civilians.

It's difficult for most Europeans to understand American 'gun culture' accurately. I sincerely doubt that these people, openly bearing arms, are going to do anything further than brandish them. If they had a more ominous revolutionary mindset, they wouldn't be congregating openly.

As a side note, I've never met a more polite group of people than at shooting ranges. Respectful, patient, polite, matter of fact and non-confrontational. I wonder why? [;)]

Gun ranges have ironclad safety rules that only mature, sensible people will gladly submit to. It's the good ol' boys (who get half-pissed and go out in the field and try to shoot up anything that moves or looks like a target - like road signs) that make me cringe. When I was about 12 I had the experience of being shot at by American hunters near my home. After the bullets cracked over our heads we yelled and they came to look. When we asked what the f**k? they said they were just taking "sound shots" - shooting at any sound they heard. Is it any wonder "American gun culture" gives me the creeps most of the time?

If the protesters in that picture were not intending to use those guns, what exactly was their purpose in bringing them? Implied threat that anyone who opposed them could be shot? I don't buy the "displaying my rights" argument - the right to bear arms was not infringed by the stay at home orders.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
If the protesters in that picture were not intending to use those guns, what exactly was their purpose in bringing them? Implied threat that anyone who opposed them could be shot? I don't buy the "displaying my rights" argument - the right to bear arms was not infringed by the stay at home orders.

As I understand it, their purpose for bringing their guns and displaying them in that fashion was to call attention to how universal 'one size fits all' stay at home orders applied nationally infringed upon constitutional Bill of Rights inalienable rights for all. That is related to the hot topic du jour about how to reopen the American economy by county/state/region-by-region and the need to take into account the impact on Constitutional rights and things we hold very importantly. I've heard related complaints about the use of mandated cell phone geotagging to notify contacts of positive cases. Reopening the economy must be a balanced decision that maintains the fight against COVID-19 without crushing individual choice or Rights. These guys were reminding us about something pretty important in our First Amendment and Second Amendment rights.

As for other 'single issue voters', I've heard squeals of protest from abortion rights activists about how abortion clinics should still be allowed to be open while most hospitals nationally are still closed for 'elective' surgeries and starving for PPE.

Sorry you got shot at by a bunch of idiots though BTW.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
If the protesters in that picture were not intending to use those guns, what exactly was their purpose in bringing them? Implied threat that anyone who opposed them could be shot? I don't buy the "displaying my rights" argument - the right to bear arms was not infringed by the stay at home orders.

As I understand it, their purpose for bringing their guns and displaying them in that fashion was to call attention to how universal 'one size fits all' stay at home orders applied nationally infringed upon constitutional Bill of Rights inalienable rights for all. That is related to the hot topic du jour about how to reopen the American economy by county/state/region-by-region and the need to take into account the impact on Constitutional rights and things we hold very importantly. I've heard related complaints about the use of mandated cell phone geotagging to notify contacts of positive cases. Reopening the economy must be a balanced decision that maintains the fight against COVID-19 without crushing individual choice or Rights. These guys were reminding us about something pretty important in our First Amendment and Second Amendment rights.

As for other 'single issue voters', I've heard squeals of protest from abortion rights activists about how abortion clinics should still be allowed to be open while most hospitals nationally are still closed for 'elective' surgeries and starving for PPE.

Sorry you got shot at by a bunch of idiots though BTW.

Next time, shoot back!

Chai Vang Killed 6 Hunters in Wisconsin Hunting Incident
Hunter Kills Six, Injures Two After a Dispute Over a Deer Stand

A Minneapolis hunter, Chai Soua Vang, was asked to leave a deer stand located on private property in Wisconsin. The situation escalated, and Vang opened fire on the property owner and his hunting guests, killing six and wounding two others.

It was November 21, 2004, just one day after deer season opened in rural Sawyer County, where deer hunting is a way of life for hundreds of local sportsmen.

Vang, a resident of St. Paul, Minnesota, is a Hmong American from Laos. He became lost while hunting in the area and asked two hunters for directions. He ended up on 400 acres of private property and climbed up on a deer stand he found there.

According to investigators, Terry Willers, co-owner of the land, rode by the site and saw someone in the deer stand. He radioed back to the hunting cabin where he and 14 others were staying, asking who was in the stand and was told that no one was supposed to be in it.

Willers said he would ask the hunter to leave the stand. Others from the private party drove their ATVs to the scene.

When told to leave the deer stand, Vang complied and began to walk away from the scene. As he walked away, five members of the hunting party, including Bob Crotteau, who co-owned the property with Willers, confronted Vang. Someone in the private party wrote down Vang's out-of-state hunting license number—correctly posted on Vang's back—in the dust on his ATV.

According to survivors of the incident, Vang walked about 40 yards away from the party, took the scope off his Chinese style SKS semi-automatic rifle, turned and began to fire at the private party. Three of the hunters were shot in the initial burst of fire including Willers who was the only other man in the group who was carrying a gun.
Rescuers Shot At

Someone in the hunting party radioed back to the cabin and said they were under fire. According to Sawyer County Sheriff Jim Meier, as others from the cabin arrived at the scene, unarmed, to try to rescue the wounded hunters, they too were shot. Some of the victims had multiple gunshot wounds.

Vang fled the scene and became lost again. Two hunters, who were unaware of the shooting incident, walked him out of the woods. As they left the woods, five hours after the shooting, a Department of Natural Resources officer recognized the hunting license number on Vang's back and took him into custody. Vang was held in the Sawyer County Jail. His bail was set at $2.5 million.

Killed in the incident were Robert Crotteau, 42; his son Joey, 20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; and Jessica Willers, 27, the daughter of Terry Willers. Dennis Drew died of his wounds the following night. Terry Willers and Lauren Hesebeck survived their gunshot wounds.

https://www.thoughtco.com/six-killed-in ... ent-972787

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

[:D] I just had a really great idea whilst taking a leak! Suppose we hire out EVERY hotel in Cancun, hire a bunch of charter jets and fly everyone between 18 and 30 down there for 14 nights all inclusive...6 to a room..let them fornicate and drink tainted alcohol to their hearts content. Everyone would get COVID! Now, on the flight back, everyone get Rocephin and Zithromax to treat the GC and Chlamydia. A few thousand cases of Moctezuma's revenge but you could hand out WHO rehydration bottles on the plane.

Now, on the flight back, everyone get Rocephin and Zithromax to treat the GC and Chlamydia.

Google was no help - what is the "C" in "GC"? (Assuming the "G" is gonorrhea.)

you had it.."gonococcus"

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

[:D] I just had a really great idea whilst taking a leak! Suppose we hire out EVERY hotel in Cancun, hire a bunch of charter jets and fly everyone between 18 and 30 down there for 14 nights all inclusive...6 to a room..let them fornicate and drink tainted alcohol to their hearts content. Everyone would get COVID! Now, on the flight back, everyone get Rocephin and Zithromax to treat the GC and Chlamydia. A few thousand cases of Moctezuma's revenge but you could hand out WHO rehydration bottles on the plane.

Now, on the flight back, everyone get Rocephin and Zithromax to treat the GC and Chlamydia.

Google was no help - what is the "C" in "GC"? (Assuming the "G" is gonorrhea.)

you had it.."gonococcus"

...coccus...[fnar fnar][:D]

[Encircled]

Just showed Mrs Encircled the pic of the armed men outside the courthouse (?)

She's flabbergasted that its legal.

Anyway, press over here are waking up to the disaster that is our response to this.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -hq3b9tlgh

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

And you probably should have omitted Trump's 'told you so' prospective commentary if you didn't want this to devolve into a political name game.

warspite1

My goodness....

To be crystal clear, I mentioned Trump NOT because of any US blaming and shaming, not because of any inherent anti-Trump feeling, not because of any political point scoring and certainly not because of any anti-US feeling (and I think and hope my record on that speaks for itself).

NO, I simply mentioned Trump because the picture posted was from an incident in Ohio (USA) - to which you yourself commented was full of 'dumbasses' and because their position was seemingly being backed by recent announcements and writings by Donald Trump. That's all. It was a comment about what was specifically raised.

But YES I should have realised from a lot of the crap mentioned in the preceding weeks on this thread, that apparently any comment that attacks the US - real or IMAGINED - seems to provoke rage and hysteria.

So apologies to all for daring to comment on an incident, posted by an American, that happens to be set in the USA, where a section of the society (that happened to be American because it was in Ohio) want lockdown to end - and for that policy seemingly being promoted by Donald Trump (who happens to be President of the USA), and for the fact I suggested a politician (who in this case happens to be Donald Trump) would be quick to say 'I told you so' to anyone that will listen if his/her decision proved to be the correct one (especially when set against the advice of others). Like that is an unusual position for a politician to make.....