FITE Chambers vs Fulkerson

[SMK-at-work]

Maybe he got put in the reconstruction queue late in 1941?

[sPzAbt653]

Are 1941 partisans supposed to show up after 1941 ?

Since I am such a fan of partisans, I will attempt to answer this question. The 'Partizan 41' units are in for the duration, they don't ever leave. '41' simply means that is the year that they initially arrive.

[larryfulkerson]

The front lines haven't changed since.....I don't remember when they changed last. But now Curt and I have gotten into a pissing contest over a couple of hexes just south of Leningrad. I've shipped in a boatload of arty and some Panzers and still haven't made much of a dent in the lines there. He's got arty galore to protect the place.

[larryfulkerson]

I blasted some holes in the lines up in lapland and think maybe Curt will bring in his reserves and plug them again. Oh well.

[larryfulkerson]

I'm starting to get more Heavy Rifle Squads on hand again. Sign of less attacks than usual for a couple of turns now.

[larryfulkerson]

Curt and I are still in the middle of bitter fighting over the surburbs of Leningrad. I have seen several hexes change hands over the past several turns.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Axis losses so far:

[Shazman]

What turn are you now on?

[larryfulkerson]

I try to remember to put the turn number in the Title of the post but just in case you can't find it we're on turn 72 now. Speaking of turn 72.......I guess this is the wave of things to come in the future: 4 partisans simultaneously:

[larryfulkerson]

I blasted a couple of holes in Curt's lines near Leningrad but he's just going to plug them with fresh troops so it's no biggie for him.

[mantrain]

Do you ever feel like your shoveling sand into the ocean?

[larryfulkerson]

So um.......hey Mantrain ( Nick ).....I suppose the biggest reason that most FITE games don't last this long (T73) is that it does feel like shoveling sand into the ocean.  The Soviets have almost inexhaustable reserves of troops and I've been attacking without letup for about the last 10 turns or so and have gained a net of two hexes for my efforts I think.  Curt must be thinking.......go ahead and attack me fool....wear yourself down enough for me to be able to push you back to Berlin.

On the other hand, I can't not attack.  I can't not try to make some headway.  That would be giving up early.  I'm losing at least as many Heavy Rifle Squads as I produce each turn so my army is steadily getting weaker and weaker but what else can I do?  I'm  holding a wolf by the ears and don't dare let go.

[mantrain]

I think you need knock-out punches early on.  If we look historically, we see that Adolph's only real chance was Moscow in the autumn of '41.  I think it was in Oct when the population began its exit from Moscow.  but what did Adolph do? I think he got greedy and and army group south go for the caucuses oil......by the time spring of '42 came along the soviets has rebuilt all there industry, literally from the ground up, in the urals and way back in the country..  These people by the tens of thousands went to empty space, in the wild, and built from the ground up their war industry. and also, the soviet leadership was totally willing to send their units into a hamabuger machine and fight along the highest form of military attrition ever seen in the history of warfare. Stalin had no regard for his men accept as cannon fodder...

[larryfulkerson]

Whenever I play FITE as the Soviets I tend to use "ignore losses" on my attacks since I can afford it and I rarely get more than one combat round anyway.  Come to think about it, maybe that's why I tend to lose when playing FITE.

[SMK-at-work]

Maybe that's why you rarely get more than 1 combat round too??  I used to regularly get a couple or 3.

[Shazman]

ORIGINAL: mantrain

I think you need knock-out punches early on.  If we look historically, we see that Adolph's only real chance was Moscow in the autumn of '41.  I think it was in Oct when the population began its exit from Moscow.  but what did Adolph do? I think he got greedy and and army group south go for the caucuses oil......by the time spring of '42 came along the soviets has rebuilt all there industry, literally from the ground up, in the urals and way back in the country..  These people by the tens of thousands went to empty space, in the wild, and built from the ground up their war industry. and also, the soviet leadership was totally willing to send their units into a hamabuger machine and fight along the highest form of military attrition ever seen in the history of warfare. Stalin had no regard for his men accept as cannon fodder...

Well, actually Hitler's original plan was to exploit the Soviet resouces in the south, agricultural, industrial and natural. Also, the Soviets did not build the industry from the ground up. They simply moved their industry and all the workers. This Soviet industry for the means of destruction was begun in the mid 20s and had become very formidable.

As far as Soviet military planning. The Stallin regime began planning for a war of long duration long before the Germans. In Stalins words in July 1927 during the 'War Scare', "War is inevitable, of that there can be no doubt. But does that mean that it cannot be put off even for a few years? No, it does not. Hence the task is to put off war against the USSR either to the time when the revolution is ripe in the West or until imperialism suffers more powerful blows from the colonial countries." (The Soviet Defence-Industry Complex From Stalin to Khrushchev/Barber and Harrison)

Of course as events unfolded the possible antagonists changed. But the war planning went forward regardless of who would be fought. So, in all ways the Soviets had been planning for this war since 1927, far longer than the Axis. If Hitler knew the Soviets had 14 million reservists with at least basic military training and planned to replace the entire army every four to eight months during intense operations with the means to do so and could move thier industry beyond Germanys means to reach it do you think the invasion would have still gone on?

Also, the loss of Moscow would not have meant Soviet collapse in 1941 any more than it did during the French invasion over 100 years earlier.

Sorry Larry, for hijacking your thread. BTW, have you considered using limited attacks?

[larryfulkerson]

Limited attacks ? Hey, what a good idea. So um........Curt plugged the last holes I blasted into his lines near Leningrad so I thought I'd make some new ones. This is what the lines looked like after my turn 75. He'll plug these holes also. Such is war in the East.

[SMK-at-work]

Also, the loss of Moscow would not have meant Soviet collapse in 1941 any more than it did during the French invasion over 100 years earlier.

That's a very bold statement.  Moscow in 1914 was not the capital, was not the major centre of industry and (probably more importantly) transport, and had nothing like the % populatoin it did in the 1940's.

Also the French thrust in 1812 was very narrow - it pretty much went like an arrow to Moscow - relatively minor forces fought to its north (mainly Prussians) and south (mainly Saxons & Austrians) but they didn't do much - so the whole of the rest of Western Russia was unharmed.

There are good reasons to think that hte fall of Moscow in 1941 or 2 would have had considerably more effect than it did in 1812.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines as of early turn 77. Curt and I are fighting over a couple of hexes near Leningrad and just north of Sevastapol but the lines are stable and haven't changed much since the '41 winter Soviet offensive. We're into the attrition phase of the game and he's winning that part. Almost every attack I make I destroy more Soviet stuff than I lose myself but he can afford it and I can't and he's got air supremacy now and my air force is dwendling smaller and smaller. Curt says he's going to start some attacks to take back the territory he's lost and if he breaks my lines somewhere it's going to be a major catastrophy since I have very little reserves saved up.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the moves minimovie from turns 74 through 78. The only place where you can see any movement is in the horizontal line just south of Leningrad where I'm slowly pushing the Soviets north.