Shattered Vow

[Canoerebel]

I've suffered horrific losses to subs in this game.  I've probably set the all time record for sub losses.  This is due to my implementation of a flawed transport system at the start of the game, my failure to modify the system quickly enough once it became clear it wasn't working, patches and hot fixes that altered sub/ASW interractions that caught me flat-footed and decimated my ASW ships, my failure to recognize and respond to those changes quickly enough, my general incompetence, and probably some luck on the part of my opponent.

I'm not exaggerating when I say my losses have been staggering.  I've had three RN BBs torpedoes and heavily damaged, one American BB sunk, a remarkable number of ASW assets sunk, and epidemic numbers of transports and tankers.  I would itemize the losses, but it would take hours of work and would be quite embarrassing to admit.

For all of that, I've managed to destroy just 20 or so Japanese submarines in the game.  Twenty sounds like alot until you compare it to the devastation wrought against the Allies.

Allied subs are still firing duds at an epidemic rate in my game.  If the sub system remains essentially the same by the time Allied subs are operating with decent efficiency, Miller is going to be yowling as loud or louder than I have been (given I'll have many more subs to work with; and barring bad luck or mismanagement on my part).

I think sub warfare is far too effective in the game, but I admit my shortcomings as commander may have had a profound affect on my thinking.

[Canoerebel]

11/30/42 and 12/01/42
 
KB:  The Japanese carriers that showed up between Noumea and Suva vanished to the north without doing any damage.
 
CenPac:  Transports are lined up to arrive at Midway over the coming days; overloading this base (I have 7,500 men ashore) really sucks the supply system.  A CVE just finished ferrying an F4F squadron to Midway.
 
SoPac:  Bettys escorted by Zeros sortied from Lunga against merchant shipping at Luganville.  No damage done, but a handful of Japanese aircraft splashed. 
 
SWPac:  Unloading continues at Merauke; base building continues there and at Horn Island.  To illustrate how far ahead the Allied player has to plan, I had several Seabee units 100% prepped for Merauke and the small islands north of Darwin.  I'm currently transporting them there by sub and by xAP.  All of this seems to be unnoticed by the Japanese.  Given the 300 AV at Merauke and the proxmiity of other major airbases (Portland Roads, Coen, etc.), this base is pretty much secure.  Now I can conentrate on beefing up supplies, engineers and base force personnel there to get this base up to level five or more as quickly as possible.  Oz is flush with supplies but almost totally out of fuel.
 
Allied carriers:  Wasp, Lexington, and an RN carrier are in port at Sydney.  The RN CV is due for withdrawal in about a month, so I'll leave her there.  Wasp and Lex will likely return to the West Coast as soon as I'm sure the KB has vacated the area.  Four CVEs are at Seattle, another is returning there after the Midway ferrying mission, and three are due to arrive at Balboa in two weeks.
 
Burma/India:  A massed Allied raid against Schwebo caused some damage, but I do these irregularly mainly as training missions and to keep Miller honest.
 
China:  Quiet since Sian fell to the Japanese.  The stack of Japanese troops that pulled back from Sian haven't showed up anywhere else, yet.  Japanese aircraft regularly bomb isolated Chinese units, mainly to train.
 
Subs:  I-11 got an AK a hex from Colombo.  Allied subs have been firing duds at a high rate this past week -especially against transports at Eniwetok and Tarawa.

[Chickenboy]

Canoerebel,

What do you think of the new pilot training algorithms post patch II? Are you able to train your pilots up on specific skills to your satisfaction?

[Canoerebel]

Chickenboy, that's a level of micromanagement I am not interested in.  I'm going to ignore it and hope that it really doesn't affect me.  If it puts me at a disadvantage, I'll have the difficult decision of whether to take it on and do it, or giving up the game.

I enjoy the micromanagement inherent in dealing with individual subs, ships, aircraft squadrons, ground units, supply, docking limits, search arcs (thought that's getting pretty tedious), etc., but dealing with individual men is not appealing.

[Andy Mac]

I never bother with search arcs and just leave them on random and hope for the best as I cannot be bothered with the micromanagement [:D][:D]

Same ofr pilot training so you are not alone

[Oliver Heindorf]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Chickenboy, that's a level of micromanagement I am not interested in.  I'm going to ignore it and hope that it really doesn't affect me.  

Hello, not to disturb your party here in any way...but this decision will hurt you badly.
These search Arcs needed to be placed well and with thought in AE. Just my 0.02 $ cents.
(No € cents spent [;)])

[witpqs]

On pilot training I only deal with ordering squadrons to train, but search arcs are vital.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Chickenboy, that's a level of micromanagement I am not interested in.  I'm going to ignore it and hope that it really doesn't affect me.  If it puts me at a disadvantage, I'll have the difficult decision of whether to take it on and do it, or giving up the game.

I enjoy the micromanagement inherent in dealing with individual subs, ships, aircraft squadrons, ground units, supply, docking limits, search arcs (thought that's getting pretty tedious), etc., but dealing with individual men is not appealing.

Hi Canoerebel,

I agree. It's a fine line between detailed attention and tedium. This game lets you have it both ways.

I mostly train whole Daitai or Chutai at a time-I rarely look at individual men per se, except when populating the training command. I have only played a few turns in my PBEMs post patch II, so it's too early for me to say what effect the training aspect of the game has been changed post patch II. Anyways, even with my limited exposure post patch II, I like what I see for pilot management-wondering if you had some broad observations.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Chickenboy, that's a level of micromanagement I am not interested in.  I'm going to ignore it and hope that it really doesn't affect me.  If it puts me at a disadvantage, I'll have the difficult decision of whether to take it on and do it, or giving up the game.

I enjoy the micromanagement inherent in dealing with individual subs, ships, aircraft squadrons, ground units, supply, docking limits, search arcs (thought that's getting pretty tedious), etc., but dealing with individual men is not appealing.

If Miller is doing it extensively and you don´t then he will wipe the floor with your airforce over the years and I guess this will lead to huge problems for you. Kind of the same as in WITP when the Japanese did on map training via bombing isolated units or bases and creating 80 exp fighter pilots which then wiped the floor with Corsairs flown by the normal 55 exp replacement USMC pilot.

I would not ignore the training function at all. Don´t know about Miller though, if he doesn´t use it, no need for you doing it. Otherwise...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

On pilot training I only deal with ordering squadrons to train, but search arcs are vital.

I´m using search arcs only very seldome and it works just fine. At least I can´t say I would spot more with search arcs even though this would sound logical. [&:]

[Chickenboy]

Agree with castor troy: this could put you at a competitive disadvantage. Believe it or not, it doesn't add THAT much time to a turn (pilot management and training). As the IJNAF in particular, one HAS to marshall their good pilots with care.

As Allies, you may be able to make up for the difference in pilot quality with quantity, but if your pilots are decidely inferior through lack of training, it may take you considerably longer to exert air superiority or air supremacy in a given region. I recommend a training regimen for your pilots that are behind the lines or due for engagement in the near future, particularly if they're way below experience levels of 70+.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Chickenboy, that's a level of micromanagement I am not interested in.  I'm going to ignore it and hope that it really doesn't affect me.  

Hello, not to disturb your party here in any way...but this decision will hurt you badly.
These search Arcs needed to be placed well and with thought in AE. Just my 0.02 $ cents.
(No € cents spent [;)])

Because of the limited air coverage associated with patrol aircraft at 60-70% search, it doesn't make sense to have them squander their air sorties patrolling a zone that is irrelevant for game terms. Would you rather your ASW / air search go from 180-000 degrees at San Diego (searching the channel islands / pacific ocean) or 000-180 (searching the inland desert / Barstow / Arizona)?

Like the Ronco chicken rotisserie: set it and forget it if you're too concerned about it being a time sink. But you should set it properly at least once so that you're not wasting valuable search aircraft on a fool's errand.

[Canoerebel]

I set my aircraft squadrons to train, but I am not interested - repeat, I am not interested - in implementing a training regimen for individual pilots or the leaders of training squadrons.  If that puts me at a competitive disadvantage then my thinking right now is that this is not the game for me.

[ny59giants]

Almost all the American PBY squadrons start the war with below 30 experience rating when it comes to ASW. [:(]
I set them to training at 50% as soon as their morale gets up above 95 (I'm putting 15 pilots in a squadron of 12 so I can have some spares). Hopefully, my initial losses will slow down once they get above 50. I'm at the end of 12/41 vs Andy's Japanese AI and have just got those large Kingfisher squadrons. They will fill out, rest until morale is above 95, and then 50% training for ASW work only. They will be placed at San Fran, LA, San Diego, and Seattle with specific search arcs.

Am I missing anything here??

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I set my aircraft squadrons to train, but I am not interested - repeat, I am not interested - in implementing a training regimen for individual pilots or the leaders of training squadrons.  If that puts me at a competitive disadvantage then my thinking right now is that this is not the game for me.

OK, this makes more sense. Your first reply seemed to suggest that you were forsakeing all manifestations of pilot (yes, squadron) training. Such a disregard (which is what the other posters were commenting on too) would yield trouble in your faceoff versus Miller in short order.

Individual pilot TRACOM training is a hit or miss affair-an incremental improvement that you can probably live without if you want to draw the hard line at focusing on individual pilots. I would say that it (TRACOM) is LESS important than a strategic effort at pilot (yes, squadron) skill training, were I asked to choose between the two.

So, Canoerebel, if you don't mind me repeating my previous question-how have you found squadron training to be post patch II versus pre patch II? Better, easier, harder, slower, faster, what? Thanks in advance for your response.

[Canoerebel]

Thanks for the clarification - and I apologize for generating a flurry of comments based upon my misunderstanding of the written word.  And to think I make a living by working with the written word...
 
I haven't kept detailed records of training, but my unscientific impression is that squadron training is better and faster than it was before.  IE, instead of it taking 27 light years for a B-24 squadron to increase from 25% to 32% experience level, now it takes a much shorter period of time, perhaps a month or two (a guesstimate).
 
I have had a multitutde of squadrons training for the entire game with relatively little progress.  Glaciation goes faster.  But I suppose that's the nature of the beast - we're one year into the war, so how much SHOULD pilot experience increase over a period of one year if the squadron is set at 40% training?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Almost all the American PBY squadrons start the war with below 30 experience rating when it comes to ASW. [:(]
I set them to training at 50% as soon as their morale gets up above 95 (I'm putting 15 pilots in a squadron of 12 so I can have some spares). Hopefully, my initial losses will slow down once they get above 50. I'm at the end of 12/41 vs Andy's Japanese AI and have just got those large Kingfisher squadrons. They will fill out, rest until morale is above 95, and then 50% training for ASW work only. They will be placed at San Fran, LA, San Diego, and Seattle with specific search arcs.

Am I missing anything here??

Canoerebel: sorry for the hijack...

ny59giants,

About the only thing I didn't see in your post was the unit commander's stats. Are you replacing squadron commanders with those of high levels of (in your example of ASW focus) naval skills? I assume that this would have an effect, but must confess that I'm not far enough along post patch II to really be able to tell.

[ny59giants]

About the only thing I didn't see in your post was the unit commander's stats. Are you replacing squadron commanders with those of high levels of (in your example of ASW focus) naval skills? I assume that this would have an effect, but must confess that I'm not far enough along post patch II to really be able to tell.

I will have to do that. But right now there are more pressing needs for PP expenditures before I go through squadron leaders. Evac of what you want from the SRA, Malaya, and Luzon take up those precious PPs early in the war. I will check on them when I get home tonight and see if their are some truly bad leaders (poor naval and admin will hurt training).

[Canoerebel]

12/02/42 to 12/05/42

Rabaul: I played a hunch and scored a flashy but not really substantive blow against the Japanese. After the KB withdrew from the Noumea vicinity I figured Miller would send it to Rabaul to refuel. So I ordered a strike by four B-24 squadrons based in northern Oz. This was the first strike against Rabaul, so I figured I'd achieve surprise. On the first day of the two-day turn, 35 Liberators hit the port facilities. With no opposition, the low-experienced pilots were able to score some hits - three 500lbers each on BBs Ise and Hyuga, one hit on CA Kako, and one fiery strike on an AD. The next turn, the KB was there, because the Liberators found 80 Zeros on CAP and a notation that at least one squadron was from Shikaku. The CAP scared off the bombers. No real damage done to the Japanese, but I scored some intel.

Merauke: AV is up to 333 with 20,000 supplies on hand.

Darwin and Timor: The AP and AKL arrived at one of these little islands (Samaluk or somesuch), but were sighted by a patrol aircraft. A strike by Bettys from Kendari or vicinity finished off the AP. Darwin's bombers fly irregular strikes against Lautem and Koepang. Miller has barely occupied these two bases - each has a ground unit, no aircraft, and apparently no base force units.

American Carriers: Since I'm pretty sure the KB is far away, I'm sending Wasp and Lexington from Sydney to the West Coast, with a layover at Auckland to refuel.

India/Burma: Quiet at the moment. Allied troops continue to gather at Cox's Bazaar and will begin moving on Akyab in a week or so.

China: The Japanese stack that disappeared after taking Sian? They are beginning to show up across the river from Chengtu. I had a hunch Miller was heading this way (taking Chengtu would flank Changsha), so I have units on the move there. The current garrison is 2,700 AV. By the time Miller is ready to cross the river it should be well over 3,000 AV. This is a forested hex with six forts and a river crossing involved, so I'm optimistic about my chances here.

Big AV Infantry: You know, the Allies really don't have an over-abundance of strong infantry units. You will recall that I have a stout army at Seattle that is prepped for the Kuriles. I still don't know if that's a move I want to make, and I sure could use those troops in upcoming operations against the islands between Oz and New Guinea, but I it would take them months to reach the theater and I would be essentially giving up on the Kuriles.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

NO USSHENRICO OR CRIMGUY, please.

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Have you loaded up a 'transport' TF with a couple of crummy xAKLs and about 20 ASW units and gone trolling for subs? Pump up the transport ASW rating to 50 or so and see what happens with his detected subs when the attack one of your merchants. I wonder if the artificial cap on 4 ship ASW hunter-killer groups in the game is underestimating the efficacy of such units IRL.

Sorry guys, as an Allied player I have sympathy with the ASW woes and am searching for solutions, but I consider this move extremely gamey. If my opponent does it, I ask them to stop. I especially disliked it in WITP. So, make sure you discuss this tactic with your opponent before doing it.