Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

[terje439]

I actually have quite a few arty pieces, but not enough I guess.
And I agree Flaviusx, I am way behind schedule, and as I have said allready, there is no way I will get even a minor victory or a draw [:)]

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 153

Overall
More mud, so only 4 attacks his turn, scoring 1 held and 3 retreats. The Axis has fallen back another hex in some areas.
176.000 report to the manpower pool this turn. It ends at 1.508.
Losses are light;
Axis : 33.000 troops and 28 AFVs
USSR : 82.000 troops and 142 AFVs.

Units
4 TACs are sent to the reserves this turn.
We order the creation of 3 mechanized brigades and 3 tank brigades. Our forces grew by 99.000 soldiers this turn.
We also did an inventory check, looking for onboard artillery units. We have 43.

Partisans
After the Axis chase 8 units away, we are left with 25. Our forces manage 11 sabotague missions this turn, but the really good news is that we manage 19 supply drops this turn.

[karonagames]

I actually have quite a few arty pieces, but not enough I guess.

It's not the number of guns that matters, but having them in high concentrations via divisional sized units, that create the high level of disruption that will allow low initial CV odds turn into retreats. In many cases apparent 1:1 odds will be turned into 3:1 or better, especially if the Red Airforce gets active in support.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

I actually have quite a few arty pieces, but not enough I guess.

It's not the number of guns that matters, but having them in high concentrations via divisional sized units, that create the high level of disruption that will allow low initial CV odds turn into retreats. In many cases apparent 1:1 odds will be turned into 3:1 or better, especially if the Red Airforce gets active in support.

I get that, and have been stacking them 3 and 3, but I cannot have 6 of them adjacant to every enemy hex
But do people use them before they make the main attack, or add them to the dedicated attack itself?

Terje

[Flaviusx]

Never use them alone. Combine them with other units. The key here is that artillery suppresses enemy elements. That makes it far easier to adjust the final odds to 2:1 and get retreats. It's not about killing stuff per se. It's about getting the retreat. And it's retreats that cause losses more than anything else. Not to mention clearing forts.

It seems to me that people are underestimating the effectiveness of artillery because it doesn't have high on map CVs and its effects on combat are somewhat hidden by the game engine's mechanics. But properly used they make a big difference.

If you use them alone, they're fairly worthless. It's all about making it possible for other units to gain ground when used with them. Combined arms.

Also: they fire from two hexes away. Don't stack them adjacent to the enemy. The whole point here is to take advantage of their ranged abilities to get beyond stacking limits. So you can pile 6 corps on a two hex attack, for example, and then add to them lots more artillery behind them. 3 artillery divisions is roughly speaking another 1k guns thrown into combat on top of what your front line units are doing. (Rocket artillery adds quite a bit more than that.)

Somebody seriously needs to make a tutorial here on artillery use. (No I am not volunteering, lol.)

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Never use them alone. Combine them with other units. The key here is that artillery suppresses enemy elements. That makes it far easier to adjust the final odds to 2:1 and get retreats. It's not about killing stuff per se. It's about getting the retreat. And it's retreats that cause losses more than anything else. Not to mention clearing forts.

It seems to me that people are underestimating the effectiveness of artillery because it doesn't have high on map CVs and its effects on combat are somewhat hidden by the game engine's mechanics. But properly used they make a big difference.

If you use them alone, they're fairly worthless. It's all about making it possible for other units to gain ground when used with them. Combined arms.

Also: they fire from two hexes away. Don't stack them adjacent to the enemy. The whole point here is to take advantage of their ranged abilities to get beyond stacking limits. So you can pile 6 corps on a two hex attack, for example, and then add to them lots more artillery behind them. 3 artillery divisions is roughly speaking another 1k guns thrown into combat on top of what your front line units are doing. (Rocket artillery adds quite a bit more than that.)

Somebody seriously needs to make a tutorial here on artillery use. (No I am not volunteering, lol.)

Hehe yeah sorry, I used the wrong words here.
What you describe is what I do, the only exception was during mud when I decided to let them fire alone just to add some casualties to the Axis troops. And ofc I have them behind my line, but sometimes I am unable to find the right english expression I guess.
But how about the mortar brigades, as someone (sorry do not recall atm, stand up and be recognized) mentioned, they have alot of tubes for a lower cost. Are they alot worse than the arty divisions?

Terje

[Flaviusx]

The 43 mortar brigades are pretty good as brigades go. (The heavy rocket artillery brigades are even better.)

But my own view is that nothing exceeds like excess. Why use a brigade when you can you use a division with 3 times the firepower or more? (In many cases much more. Most artillery brigades are fairly weak.) Especially since the AP cost for a division is only twice that of a brigade.

When it comes to strong enemy defenses heavily dug in, more is better. I mostly ignore brigades. Stacking limitations alone make them non optimal.

If you want to crack a fort line for real, pick a half dozen or so hexes to attack and pile everything you've got on them. BOOM. The God of war doesn't reward parsimony.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The 43 mortar brigades are pretty good as brigades go. (The heavy rocket artillery brigades are even better.)

But my own view is that nothing exceeds like excess. Why use a brigade when you can you use a division with 3 times the firepower or more? (In many cases much more. Most artillery brigades are fairly weak.) Especially since the AP cost for a division is only twice that of a brigade.

When it comes to strong enemy defenses heavily dug in, more is better. I mostly ignore brigades. Stacking limitations alone make them non optimal.

If you want to crack a fort line for real, pick a half dozen or so hexes to attack and pile everything you've got on them. BOOM. The God of war doesn't reward parsimony.

Thank you once more for your information and insight Flaviusx
[&o]

Terje

[juret]

ORIGINAL: terje439

I actually have quite a few arty pieces, but not enough I guess.
And I agree Flaviusx, I am way behind schedule, and as I have said allready, there is no way I will get even a minor victory or a draw [:)]

Terje

how many artydivs u got ?(mortar,breakthrough,rocket )
If u only build those for 3 turns u can 10 or so more. give them experience at the front and they get time to get better

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: juret

ORIGINAL: terje439

I actually have quite a few arty pieces, but not enough I guess.
And I agree Flaviusx, I am way behind schedule, and as I have said allready, there is no way I will get even a minor victory or a draw [:)]

Terje

how many artydivs u got ?(mortar,breakthrough,rocket )
If u only build those for 3 turns u can 10 or so more. give them experience at the front and they get time to get better

All in all there are 43 artillery untis in play, I estimate 70% of those are mortar brigades though.

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 154

Overall
Clear weather again, and we launch another offensive with no less than 31 attacks. The "fail" rate is too high though, as we score a staggering 14 held (the other 17 were retreats). Losses are very high this turn espesially for us;
Axis : 72.000 troops and 158 AFVs
USSR : 151.000 troops and 736 AFVs
This turn we recieve 169.000 workers in the manpower pool, so it ends at 18.037.

Units
1 TRS and 1 TAc were sent to the reserves this turn.
We form one rifle corps and one mechanized corps before we order the creation of 4 rifle divisions and 2 rifle brigades. Yes I know I have agreed that artillery divisions are a good choice, but I need more frontline units as well. As of now if I am to bypass an enemy stack, I am forced to split my stacks and advance with smaller stacks that are vulnerable to enemy counter-attacks.
Our forces grew by a whopping 6.000 this turn...

Partisans
32 units are left on the map after the Axis chase 8 units away. Our forces perform 10 acts of sabotague this turn, and were rewarded with 12 supply drops.

[gingerbread]

I'm the one who spoke for the '43 Mortar Brigade; I still think they are a good buy at ~1500 each of Men & ARM. They do have a nominal salvo of 144x12 = 1728 rounds!

But when stacking limits becomes an issue, divisions of course rule. There is a way to have the cake and eat, or at least nibble, it as well. Put the mortar brigade(s) in reserve mode behind the artillery divisions. Being brigades, they will have a modifier (-1) on the commitment die roll. Some will make that roll.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

I'm the one who spoke for the '43 Mortar Brigade; I still think they are a good buy at ~1500 each of Men & ARM. They do have a nominal salvo of 144x12 = 1728 rounds!

But when stacking limits becomes an issue, divisions of course rule. There is a way to have the cake and eat, or at least nibble, it as well. Put the mortar brigade(s) in reserve mode behind the artillery divisions. Being brigades, they will have a modifier (-1) on the commitment die roll. Some will make that roll.

Now that is brilliant thinking [&o]

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 155

Overall
The Axis pull back in some sectors and make two attacks in other sectors. They score 1 held and 1 retreat, while we make 20 attacks this trun, scoring 1 held, 18 retreats and 1 rout. We also manage to pocket a hungarian cavalry unit as it retreated the wrong way when attacked. The Axis line seems badly shaken, and I expect to see them pull back some more unless they get alot of lucky rolls. Losses are high this turn too, our AFV loss is extremely high as the retreat we suffered were 2 mechanized corps';
Axis : 63.000 troops and 216 AFVs
USSR : 136.000 troops and 724 AFVs

Units
13 TACs are sent to the reserves. The morale loss of these units are....well I have no words, but if these guys had been who made up the pilot pool of the RAF in 1940, the "Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung" would be read in London by now.
We form 1 tank corps and one mechanized corps this turn, we also ordered the creation of 3 rocket launcher divisions.
Despite heavy losses, our forces grew by 194.000 troops this turn.

Liberation
Lipetsk is liberated this turn.

A sad tale
As the Axis powers desperately try to regain some initiative, they launched an assault with the 1st SS Panzer division, the Wallonian SS grenadier division and the 1st Hungarian mountain brigade against the position held by our 20th Guards rifle corps and 114th Guards rifle division, both under command of the 1st Guards army led by general Nikolai Vatutin.
As many will realize, it is no wonder why it was Vatutins army that first gained Guard status, as this is one of our more skilled generals. Or, as things are, we should say he WERE.
Realizing the importance of this position, the general himself took command of the battle, fighting it at the front with his men. The morale boost our men recieved from this was so great that they stood there shoulder to shoulder with the general and held their ground. However as the fighting was dying, a last sniper bullet from those honourless Germans killed the valiant and beloved general.

Partisans
After the Axis chase away 10 units, we are left with 31 still active. These guys then managed 11 acts of sabotague this turn. Unfortunately we only managed 7 supply drops to let them keep momentum.

[terje439]

Turn 156

Apologies
There was nothing picture-worthy this turn in my oppinion.

Overall
MUD! Strange how such a sight, which used to be a welcome relief, is now a cause of annoyment. We only manage 5 attacks this turn, and score 1 held, 3 retreats and 1 surrender. Losses are light due to the low ammount of fightning;
Axis : 38.000 troops and 47 AFVs
USSR : 79.000 troops and 141 AFVs.

Units
We form 2 rifle corps and order the creation of 3 heavy gun artillery divisions this turn. We also spend 15 points on buying some more SUs, of which 9 are heavy tank battalions, as our IS2 pool is rising rapidly.
Our forces increases by 183.000 soldiers this turn.

Pools
Manpower : 591
Vehicle : 215.000
Armamanets : 981.000

Units destroyed
The 1st Hungarian Hussar Division is captured this turn.

Partisans
We are left with no more than 22 active units after 13 are forced to retreat. Our guys manage 8 sabotague missions this turn, and our pilots manage 6 drops.

[Flaviusx]

Buy the breakthrough artillery divisions -- those are the best ones. I don't like the heavy gun divisions as much.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Buy the breakthrough artillery divisions -- those are the best ones. I don't like the heavy gun divisions as much.

Ok, just have a feeling that I must buy everything atleast once in this game to take a look at them [;)]

Terje

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: terje439

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Buy the breakthrough artillery divisions -- those are the best ones. I don't like the heavy gun divisions as much.

Ok, just have a feeling that I must buy everything atleast once in this game to take a look at them [;)]

Terje

LOL

I'm just like you [:)] I guess we are little kids who want to try every single toy on the box! [:D] Gimme the lot of them or I will have a tantrum!

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: terje439

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Buy the breakthrough artillery divisions -- those are the best ones. I don't like the heavy gun divisions as much.

Ok, just have a feeling that I must buy everything atleast once in this game to take a look at them [;)]

Terje

LOL

I'm just like you [:)] I guess we are little kids who want to try every single toy on the box! [:D] Gimme the lot of them or I will have a tantrum!

[:D] Too true

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 157

Overall
The weather clears up, and we go on attacking. Although the ammount of attacks are somewhat lower than what we wanted, and despite the fact that 33% of the attacks fail, we do punch a few holes in the Axis line, we also threathen to cut off some units, so now the Axis MUST leave their level 3 forts. The question is wether they will try to counterattack, or fall back and form a new line. In the end, we score 7 held and 14 retreats for a total of 21 attacks. The Axis made no attacks this turn. Losses are still rather low;
Axis : 52.000 troops and 91 AFVs
USSR : 102.000 troops and 401 AFVs.
With a total of 170.000 workers arriving at the manpower pool this turn, it ends at 6.509.

Units
4 TACs go to the reserves this turn. We order the creation of 3 breakthrough artillery divisions, and spend 10 points on assigning some SUs to our frontline corps'.
Our forces grew by 166.000 soldiers this turn.

HQ Zhukov
These guys are on the move again, and punch a hole in the Axis line before pouring some mechanized corps' through the hole.

Partisans
The Axis chase 5 units away, leaving us with 21 units on the map. Those guys then manage 9 sabotague actions, and are rewarded with 7 supply drops.