War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

[Canoerebel]

2/1/42 and 2/2/42
 
NoPac:  Shifting around of troops continues as I work on the Prince Rupert-into-the-interior-of-Canada invasion route.  I'm also boosting Vancouver's garrison significantly.  Otherwise, quiet in this region with no sign of the KB.

DEI:  Japan is making good progress in rolling up the remaining Allied defenses in Java.  The focus of Japan's activity in the region continues in the Timor/Darwin area.

India:  India always worries me, in part because it holds a mystical power to attract Japanese attention and losing the territory would be embarrasing and perhaps fatal to an Allied player.  Happiness, therefore, is reaching February 2 with Singapore and Sabang in Allied hands and with good garrisons in place on Cocos Island, Port Blair, Diego Garcia, Attu Atoll and Socotra.  I'm not dismissing the possibility of a threat to India, but that vector would be much more risky and time-consuming for Steve than would be a move on Oz.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

If i was steve i'd go for india. Nopac is a suicide and it's too late for oz....but i think he still has time to conquer india if he committs everything on this gamble....but for sure ruining his divisions at clark won't help...

Keep an eye on India CR! And keep a strong garrison at Karachi

I don't think NoPac is suicide.....an attrition air war in 1942 with Scen 2 favors Japan, actually, and he can score a bunch of points over Seattle. But I do agree India should be a tempting target. I would expect it, in fact, except for the pile of guys at Clark.

I am playing Steve in another game, as Japan, and I do agree he is a very capable opponent. If he has a weakness, it's over-aggressiveness; he's lost 2 USN CVs vs me, and it's 1/15/42. He'll risk forces that are important, good or bad.

My opinion is that India is impossible for the Japanese player. If Japan wants to make a 'spoiling' attack and take eastern India to gain HI, Resources, and oil then that MIGHT work, however, I still think doing all of India is fool's errand. Not to insult---just my thoughts here. [8D]

I'm very interested in this subject cause i felt i wav very close to losing it...could you elaborate a bit more mate?

Just food for thoughts.... [:)]

[House Stark]

I think it's due to the fact that Rader, a very skilled opponent who had great experience in land campaigns from invading Russia in a previous PBEM, attempted it against you (a complete newb), and still failed in the end. If he couldn't do it then, it would probably be near impossible barring exceptional circumstances (Allies losing most of the Indian army and British/Aussie divs in Burma early 1942 or something).

[BBfanboy]

It also seems to me that you must have been assembling your substatial force for the Kurile/Hokkaido invasions while he was trying to conquer India. If you had done as most players would, a lot of that force would have ended up in India, stopping his invasion well before your Hyderabad [Sindh] line. Like the Germans in Stalingrad, it only looked like they might succeed because a massive counterpunch was being held back until it was fully cocked.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It also seems to me that you must have been assembling your substatial force for the Kurile/Hokkaido invasions while he was trying to conquer India. If you had done as most players would, a lot of that force would have ended up in India, stopping his invasion well before your Hyderabad [Sindh] line. Like the Germans in Stalingrad, it only looked like they might succeed because a massive counterpunch was being held back until it was fully cocked.

Honestly at that time(1942) i was just struggling to survive and wasn't thinking about an hokkaido invasion at all![:)]
That said, i think that Rader's achievements could still be improved...he waited too many months before crossing the LOD, giving me time to build up my defences and probably was too methodical in his conquest....if he had gone directly to the throat ( say a landing at karachi) i fear that things may have gone differently.... I imagine a landing in the chittaong area first ( or Viza) ....the, while the allies are trying to stop the japs in the plains, a combined landing at attu- diego, bypassing cylon.... Then, while the japs are blietzkrieging in the south- east of India, another massive landing at Surat, bypassing Bombay.... From Surat the last leap....directly to Karachi....by the end of april 42... Sounds that fool?

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It also seems to me that you must have been assembling your substatial force for the Kurile/Hokkaido invasions while he was trying to conquer India. If you had done as most players would, a lot of that force would have ended up in India, stopping his invasion well before your Hyderabad [Sindh] line. Like the Germans in Stalingrad, it only looked like they might succeed because a massive counterpunch was being held back until it was fully cocked.

Honestly at that time(1942) i was just struggling to survive and wasn't thinking about an hokkaido invasion at all![:)]
That said, i think that Rader's achievements could still be improved...he waited too many months before crossing the LOD, giving me time to build up my defences and probably was too methodical in his conquest....if he had gone directly to the throat ( say a landing at karachi) i fear that things may have gone differently.... I imagine a landing in the chittaong area first ( or Viza) ....the, while the allies are trying to stop the japs in the plains, a combined landing at attu- diego, bypassing cylon.... Then, while the japs are blietzkrieging in the south- east of India, another massive landing at Surat, bypassing Bombay.... From Surat the last leap....directly to Karachi....by the end of april 42... Sounds that fool?

from a game perspective it doesn't sound fool, from a game perspective you can also land 6 divs directly at Karachi with your next bigger base being Rangoon. But this is only possible in the game and is utter nonsense realistically speaking as in real life you need a line of supply, a working one. In the game, you just need to move halve a dozen divs somewhere and a couple dozen freighters full of supply and you can land wherever you want, even if it is 5000 miles away from your next base. These are those games that usually end earlier than later because one of the players went nuts, as I have seen it too often and experienced it myself just in my last PBEM when my opponent vanished.

[obvert]

Because rader went into India after wiping China, he had time and resources to buy out virtually every AA and support unit on the map and send them with his gazillion divisions and the entire IJAAF. I don't think a similar all-in invasion can happen without the conquering of China first and complete safety of supply routes to and from the SRA.

That kind of support is what is needed though for taking all of India. It can't be just a good portion of the IJA and 'some' support units. GJ couldn't even bomb his troops or bases without severe losses due to the number of AA there, and the only way you would get the kind of coordinated strikes he got consistently is with a ton of base units and Air HQs.

An invasion of India in any more normally progressing game should be a stalling and resource gathering measure similar to taking west OZ, but with the added HI of Calcutta and a bit of oil added in. A move that helps the economy more than hurts it and that buys time, kills Allied troops, and for which there is a defined limit so that the retreat is not too messy.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Because rader went into India after wiping China, he had time and resources to buy out virtually every AA and support unit on the map and send them with his gazillion divisions and the entire IJAAF. I don't think a similar all-in invasion can happen without the conquering of China first and complete safety of supply routes to and from the SRA.

That kind of support is what is needed though for taking all of India. It can't be just a good portion of the IJA and 'some' support units. GJ couldn't even bomb his troops or bases without severe losses due to the number of AA there, and the only way you would get the kind of coordinated strikes he got consistently is with a ton of base units and Air HQs.

An invasion of India in any more normally progressing game should be a stalling and resource gathering measure similar to taking west OZ, but with the added HI of Calcutta and a bit of oil added in. A move that helps the economy more than hurts it and that buys time, kills Allied troops, and for which there is a defined limit so that the retreat is not too messy.

Very true, very true....

But being that true, i wonder why Steve isn't focusing on China that much... I think that if Japan wants to have a "phase 2" (being that every offensive plan once SRA and DEI are conquered and secured) with some chances of being succesfull, the conquest of China is a fundamental MUST-HAVE

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: obvert

Because rader went into India after wiping China, he had time and resources to buy out virtually every AA and support unit on the map and send them with his gazillion divisions and the entire IJAAF. I don't think a similar all-in invasion can happen without the conquering of China first and complete safety of supply routes to and from the SRA.

That kind of support is what is needed though for taking all of India. It can't be just a good portion of the IJA and 'some' support units. GJ couldn't even bomb his troops or bases without severe losses due to the number of AA there, and the only way you would get the kind of coordinated strikes he got consistently is with a ton of base units and Air HQs.

An invasion of India in any more normally progressing game should be a stalling and resource gathering measure similar to taking west OZ, but with the added HI of Calcutta and a bit of oil added in. A move that helps the economy more than hurts it and that buys time, kills Allied troops, and for which there is a defined limit so that the retreat is not too messy.

Very true, very true....

But being that true, i wonder why Steve isn't focusing on China that much... I think that if Japan wants to have a "phase 2" (being that every offensive plan once SRA and DEI are conquered and secured) with some chances of being succesfull, the conquest of China is a fundamental MUST-HAVE

Yes, China is a must for any Japanese player who wants to go long term and is not just shooting for autovictory. As an Allied player I can say that China does not need to be totally taken. Take or surround Chunking and the Allied supply situation becomes intolerable. until he retakes Rangoon he will not be able to fight an offensive campaign in China.

[Canoerebel]

2/3/42 and 2/4/42
 
NoPac:  Configuring Allied garrisons in the critical Coal Harbor/Prince Rupert/Victoria/Vancouver areas is now complete.  Due to terrain and other factors, I think Prince Rupert is an unproductive route for Steve in the short and medium term, and that's probably all that matters.  Same is close to being the case with Vancouver.  That leaves Coal Harbor and Victoria as vulnerable places.  Seattle has the lion's share of American AA units, though some of the nearby bases have some.  No sign of the KB.  It's been gone long enough to show up anywhere in the Pacific now.

SWPac:  No big Japanese moves yet in places like New Guinea and the lower Solomons.

Eastern DEI:  Advance Japanese units will reach Soerabaja in a week or less.  The Allies might have 175 AV to defend the base, so Steve will claim it fairly soon.  Still lots of activity around Timor/Darwin area.  Japanese TF of unknown composition in the IO south of Java perhaps heading for Padang, Sumatra, wtih supplies or reinforcements.  Allied carriers are in position to intercept, though I won't if it isn't worth revealing my location.  I may use the two RN carriers just to try to ruffle Steve feathers.

India Defenses:  A bucket load of American units just arrived at Capetown.  Two Marine regiments go to Karachi, a combat engineering unit to Bombay, a big Marine CD unit to Socatra, and a engineering unit to Diego Garcia.  Prince of Wales is in the Colombo yard for maintenance, with the rest of Force Z enroute to Sumatra to provide cover for the Oz division slated for western Sumatra.  I've about decided to proceed with that operation.

Clark Field:  The Allied garrison held against yet another shock attack spearhead yet again by a small parachute unit.  Steve's got to be chewing nails now.  The siege is beginning to reach the length of time that is completely unacceptable for him.  Eight divisions against the tattered fragments of the Allied army.  I am a bit irritated by him using a small para unit for the third time to try achieve 2:1 odds.  I didn't say anything this time, because I've simply decided I will make much more liberal use of my paratroops in the future in retaliation for his conduct (I usually only use paratroops to seize lightly held or vacant bases, not to drive down odds on major enemy bastions).

China:  Steve's on the move in various ways to test out the Allied MLR.  No action imminent yet, but it won't be too long now.

[Crackaces]

Yes, China is a must for any Japanese player who wants to go long term and is not just shooting for autovictory. As an Allied player I can say that China does not need to be totally taken. Take or surround Chunking and the Allied supply situation becomes intolerable. until he retakes Rangoon he will not be able to fight an offensive campaign in China.

I can say I have had Rangoon for three months now Jun 43 and supplies are not enough in central China yet to sustain an offense. So not only does Rangoon have to be taken but some unknown length of time for the supplies to start propagating deep within China.

[Cribtop]

Wow, Clark is really becoming an Alamo for PJH (a Pyrrhic victory, in other words). This game reinforces my perception it is best left to wither on the vine. It also shows that the firepower advantages of American forces should not be underestimated by the Japanese player, IMHO.

Well done.

[Canoerebel]

At the time of this latest Japanese shock attack, I think 4th Marine Regiment had an AV of about 19, which is pretty telling about the condition of the Allied forces.  Clark will fall soon, but as long as the base has supply it is a tough nut to crack.
 
You can probably see why I'll be able to sleep well at night with two Marine regiments in Karachi?

[Q-Ball]

That is a major problem for him, Clark. That's exactly why spending resources to reduce it is not wise, IMO. 8 divisions now can't do it.....but wait 6 months, and a couple brigades can easily. You have to garrison Manila anyway, so what's the rush?

I respect Steve as an opponent alot, but I think that para-move is a little beyond the pale.......that's a pretty clear exploit of the game engine

[Canoerebel]

2/5/42 and 2/6/42
 
NoPac:  Everything is quiet except continued SigInt of support troops bound for various bases.  Steve is bringing in alot of "clutter" but not, as yet, anything major.  He's too smart to think that Alaska and Canadian islands mean a thing in the game, except as a deception or for a prolonged strategic air campaign.  Since, for the latter, time is everyting and he is just twiddling his thumbs, I am of the opinion that NoPac is a feint.  I will keep my fighter squadrons and everything else ready until I can afford to stand them down or move them, but that's my developing hunch.  A sub missed a shot at BB Mutsu near Anchorage.
 
Oz:  Still the enemy activity around Darwin plus a bit around northern New Guinea.  My money is still here. Now that I've attended to India for several weeks and several weeks-worth of political points, I'll give more attention to Oz.  I'll buy out the 2nd battalion of 27th Div. at Los Angeles in the near future and ship her to Melbourne via Queen Mary, which is repairining SYS damage at LA as we speak.
 
DEI:  The vanguard Japanese unit or units should reach Soerabaja in a day or two.  Naval support is ashore at Cocos, so I'm hoping I can get the shore guns ashore now.  Australian brigades will arrive at Sabang in two or three days.  The RAF will be present to provide fighter cover and Force Z will handle things at sea.
 
China:  Four IJ divisions roughed up several Chinese units outside Changsha.  This looks like the main vector for Steve's China offensive.
 
 

[Canoerebel]

2/7/42
 
Luzon:  Nuts!  Clark Field yielded on a 2:1 Japanese attack.  The garrison held heroically, but every day it continued to hold was like manna...or water to a man in a parched land.  Suddenly I have to worry about where six or seven or eight Japanese divisions will go.

Where To?:  So where does the Japanese Army go now?  My money is on Oz.  China is my second guess.  India is a relatively remote longshot.  I consider Hawaii and West Coast highly improbable.

NoPac: Quiet.

CenPac:  Yorktown and Saratoga have been sliding southward for several days.  This is part of my evaluation that the Japanese NoPac activity is most likely a deception.  The carriers will continue to the Tahiti region, where I'll have to make a firm decision whether to send them to Oz or hold them just in case their fighters are needed in CONUS.

SWPac:  Japan is landing at Milne Bay.

Oz:  The second regiment of 27th Div. will be purchased at LA in one or two days.  It will then board Queen Mary and sprint for Melbourne.  I also decided yesterday to withold the Aussie divison that was moving for western Sumatra.  It would be steamrolled if Steve committed a bunch of divsions there.  Instead, I'll hold it aboard ship south of Cocos Island, from whence it can move to Oz or India, whichever might seem emperiled.

Indian Ocean:  Ent and Lex are on station near Cocos.  The RN carriers are drifting towards Ceylong to refuel.

Burma:  A small IJA unit took Schwebo, cutting the route of retreat for a bunch of small Allied units, though I'm not concerned yet.  Steve doesn't have much and the Allies will stick and fight as best they can and, if necessary, try to melt into the jungle.

China:  Still waiting to see if Steve seriously threatens the Chinese MLR.  I think he has big plans here, but I'm not positive yet.  He even sent 27th Div. way around to the north, but I know where it is and where it's going and I can position several units in very tough terrain to fight in.  I would think IJA units way out in the desert and wilderness would be low on supply.

[Canoerebel]

"Operation Natalie is on!"
 
[:)]
 
 

[Canoerebel]

American cryptographers have cracked the "Natalie is on!" message.
 
Natalie refers to the actress Natalie Portman.  So Japan is going to attack a port, man!

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Natalie refers to the actress Natalie Portman.  So Japan is going to attack a port, man!

LOL[:D][:D]

[Cribtop]

Dan, say your last post with a Shaggie from Scooby Doo accent. Try it. You'll laugh for hours. [;)]