Climb Mt. Niitaka - Xargun vs Mr Kane

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Ok I am experiencing something very strange. For the entire game my Vehicle Production has been 200 per turn since I have 200 factories. But starting on 12/1/1942 this has begun to climb.

244 (12/1)
350 (12/2)
244 (12/3)
260 (12/4)
268 (12/5)
410 (12/6)

What is going on? tracker still only shows me with my 200 factories. Is there something odd going on that I don't know about that starts 12/1/42 ?

Screen picture from the game, not tracker please. Industry screen.

This screen?

[Lowpe]

Well that screen does show 200 vehicle production...

one of the bad things about tracker is you don't get used to using the game screens, as tracker can do some unexpected things on you.

For example not showing r&d for planes that have production turned off...

Try the main industry screen from the top bar. Tons of great information there.

[BBfanboy]

The figures you show look more like the inventory figure, not the production.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The figures you show look more like the inventory figure, not the production.

Thats whats wierd. I track the Vehicle pool every turn and if its not increasing by 200 I want to know why -- replacements or upgrades on units -- so when it started jumping by more than 200 I got very interested. The game doesn't disassemble old vehicles back into the pool like it does with obsolete aircraft back into HI does it?

[BBfanboy]

It's possible that something like a tank upgrade could result in the old ones going into the pools, but I really don't know for sure. Disbanding units or withdrawing them might also return equipment?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
OK, so 12/42.

I'm going to offer suggestions about going forward. No hindsight, that can wait until after the game. [;)]

So, looking at AC types:
Fighters: You are committed to the Tojo now. The Oscar c is on par with the Nate at this point. You need more Tojo production to support converting most of your groups to Tojo. You can keep some for escort as Oscar, but the 1c at 305 mph just can't cut it much, not to mention 2x12.7mm guns. This means you need Ha-34 to match. I would keep the Tojo a until Frank arrives. The 'b' model is a poor choice and not worth switching to.

In 7 months I will have the Tojo IIc - R&D on that model is stopped, I am waiting for the b model and then I will have c as well - waiting will enable me to convert my factories for free without wasting 90k supply to convert them manually a month earlier.

I am slowly upgrading my oscar units to Tojos, but keeping several for escort and sweeps with my zeros in Burma.

I would suggest more Tojo production and speed up the replacement. Oscar 1c is badly outclassed now, and he gets better models across the board throughout '43. I'm not sure you can wait....

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
LB's
Good mix, decent pools. Basically you are set.

T
MC-21 is ok. look at loss rate, match production to it and you want 2x monthly loss rate in your pool.

RC
Ditto T above. I generally need more as I really use recon, and that means high losses because of it. Key though is to match production to your play style. The technique above should work for you.

They are not my end game choices - I'm just not spending any R&D on Transport or Recon aircraft so I will upgrade as the newer models come down the line naturally.

Well, truthfully, what you have here are basically end game models. Sure, you will be another Helen upgrade, but it really isn't all that much.
This is IJA here ...

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
FB
You only get so many groups, so your production level should be ok. Until Frank, they are your best 4E killer, after that they are your PT killer. So, strafe skill pilots are needed ....

Many of the factories are still set to starting planes as I haven't found a use for them. Most of them have never been turned on. Could probably make more efficient use of them but not sure how.

Use those unused factories to increase Frank and Sam RnD ... you will need both in huge numbers ....

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Frank: don't be afraid to load up factories on this model. You will end up producing +500/mo of them, so ...

Ki-67 Peggy - don't over build this because it is easy to do. Its utility is as a TB, not LB. TB have only one mission, whereas LB have many. Meaning, Helen is still your main bomber for the war. Peggy helps your TB and 14 range is nice, but far less than Nettie. Just remember that. What I mean here is don't commit too many RnD factories ... unlike Frank, you will not build nearly as many.

I have 2 R&D factories on the Peggy and thats it. Should be enough to get it a few months early and 60/month should be more than enough. Am toying with the idea of using them as kamikaze as well, but not sold on the idea yet. Have never had / used Kamikazes before so not sure what to expect.

I just noticed the Tony is not listed on my R&D. I have 5 factories working on the Ki-100-I model right now. 10% a day R&D. Should have it late 43 (roughly a year from now).

Philosophically, 2E kamis are twice the cost of 1E kamis. Remember, kami do NOT come back except for weather sometimes.
Tsurugi/Toka are very cost effective.

Tony: ok, that was a big miss! [:D]
So then, I wouldn't expand Tojo so much knowing it is coming.. As long as you have it before 4/43 ... if not, then I think you will need more Tojo.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

George, coming soon. Plan to build LOTS for 2 years until Sam.

SAM - LOTS/LOTS/LOTS. So, like Frank don't be afraid to commit RnD factories to it. Difference is that it comes much later, so ROI on the RnD is a lot smaller. Still, you hvae to try and in the meantime it is George.

Should I build the first model of George just to get some in the air, or wait the 3 months til the K2 version would be available via R&D?

Believe I have 6 R&D factories on the Sam currently.

Build George ASAP to get A6M out of LBA ASAP. You will find George to be FAR superior. Keep those A6M for islands and small AF's.

Get at least 4 more SAM RnD ... maybe 9 more. If you really push now you may be able to get SAM in late '44. It will really help.
Sam is just a little better than George all around (except 1 less range[:@]), plus it works on both Land and CV. Meaning you can move groups around easier/faster.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

My only concern is your MSY ... what are you building? CVE's and hardly anything else other than to replace losses would be thoughts ...

I am building the 2 CVEs - those and Tankers are the only things I can really think of. Its a pain to turn off all the merchant shipping. Is there a way to turn it all off and then turn on only the things I want? Should I be building tankers - my losses have been very light so far -- Mr Kane seems to ignore the Japanese weakness in Oil/Fuel and concentrate his subs looking for warships.

Usually I build most of the ships in the queue. But basically I am entering new territory now that I'm in 12/42 - only made it this far once and it was a completely different game.

You should only need to build a few tankers unless your losses have been high. Remember in 18 months you won't need any.
Yes, go to ship build, choose HALT. Should halt everything, then filter and just turn back on those few that you want. (I do this at game start and other than CV/CVL/CVE/DD/E/SC there ain't much I build.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
This is a place where I am not the best person to ask, primarily because I don't like fighting here at all.
It is way off my SLOC, right on the allies. All advantages to them, none to me. I try to lose a little as I can while I prep for the Marianas fight to come in 6 months or less.

Should I pull out and only leave behind air force and token defenses? My biggest worry here is him leap frogging right past my defenses and turning any base I have into a big POW camp. I'm thinking about Rabaul or Manus or any base on New Guinea as that. Makes me hesitant to reinforce.

I know Truk will be bypassed and thats fine - I haven't made final decisions yet, but a few units will be sacrificed there - along with some air support to pop in air units now and then to say hi. Can't let Truk go for free. Rabaul? Maybe - it is very far south.

What about Babeldoab? Should I reinforce that instead of sending troops to Rabaul? or is that also usually skipped?

As Lowpe has often stated: the allies will isolate anything strong. They only need a few bases to establish their SLOC and their 4E's can reduce any base to ZERO supply and render it a prison camp.
So, fortresses don't really work. Elastic defense. You gotta pick your places to defend, have enough in place to keep him there 2 -3 days, potentially bloody him, and then when he has to go rearm, come back in and re-take it.
The point here is to interrupt his planning. He has units prepping for the next attack, not re-taking this one... that puts him 60 -90 off schedule. allies cannot afford too many of these.
And, maybe you get lucky, hit a few AK/AP's or CVE's or CV;s ... he can't lose too many of any of these ...
Nothing easy here, concept is, doing it ...

[Lowpe]

200 vehicle and 30K in pool....very good, maybe only ok depending if you lose a lot of tanks. Perhaps a slight boost to 230 since this is scenario 2 right? Plenty of tanks there and it stinks running out of them for the big type 3 upgrade in 6/44. What you might want to do is convert the arm factory at Keijo to afvs...since you really aren't worried about making it to soviet activation. This will give you a non standard vehicle factory which Allies might over look once Honshu is a smoking ruin. Just a thought.

If you make enough fighters (Frank, Sam, George, Tojo, Tony) you can wear out the Allied air force in 1944 till November ...if you can do that, it will really slow down his advance. But you need thousands of those fighters.

You can look at devices afvs and get a clue if you are upgrading to a new model and have obsolete tanks in the pools.

So if Mr. Kane is marching up from Rabaul...think now about defending Luzon. Get some big airfields on the rail network, build the crap out of the forts at Clark and Manila and Batan and stuff it with supply and some decent AA. Plan on making it a fortress that will keep his attention. He will want a forward shipyard...make it very difficult for him to get one.

At the same time build up Okinawa, Formosa, the Chinese bases behind Formosa, Daito and Bonins. Engineers should be there working on the defenses already. You can convert some islands to General Defense and then fly in restricted troops saving a bunch of PP in the process...pays to convert the islands when they aren't built up yet.

Make sure you use your command HQ on bases he has to take and get their prep to 100, match it with a smaller HQ and it is a great force multiplier and that is what you need.

Keep an eye on your land reinforcements and make sure you have shipping for them to get them to the bases they need to be quickly, even if it is a reserve base.

Just keep collapsing your perimeter back, don't worry about losing troops, bypassed troops can be flown out, destroyed troops rebuilt at Tokyo. As long as your ground troops are delaying the Allies it is all good. You are fighting for time...time to get reinforcements...notably the big AA reinforcements that come just prior to the B29. However it sucks if you are in bombing distance from B24s before then. Also you get several great chunks of troops, and each month should be able to buyout a division, artillery, support troops from Manchuko...strip it to the bone since you won't really be stripping China down.

With Japan there is always something to look forward too...the next fighter, the army fighter expansion, the type 3 tank, radar, toe upgrades, reinforcements, ships. So much, fun! But you do need to plan ahead to realize the goodies and get them in the fight fast.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

You should only need to build a few tankers unless your losses have been high. Remember in 18 months you won't need any.
Yes, go to ship build, choose HALT. Should halt everything, then filter and just turn back on those few that you want. (I do this at game start and other than CV/CVL/CVE/DD/E/SC there ain't much I build.

You don't build the IJN CLs? Or all the PBs?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

You should only need to build a few tankers unless your losses have been high. Remember in 18 months you won't need any.
Yes, go to ship build, choose HALT. Should halt everything, then filter and just turn back on those few that you want. (I do this at game start and other than CV/CVL/CVE/DD/E/SC there ain't much I build.

You don't build the IJN CLs? Or all the PBs?

CL - definitely not. They are grossly under gunned compared to USN CL's. They can't even hold their own against Fletchers.
PB's. No. Can convert all I need.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Make sure you use your command HQ on bases he has to take and get their prep to 100, match it with a smaller HQ and it is a great force multiplier and that is what you need.

I think this is one of the most overlooked things. You only get a couple of unrestricted command HQ's. You need to use them (that means prep them) very wisely. The defense boost can really make a difference.

[ny59giants]

Fort building - What is the general guidelines on building them? Any particular size to go to for regular bases, major bases like Rangoon, Manila, etc? I have a few key bases built up to size 5, but is there a reason to build up to size 4, 5, or 6??

While this game is in Dec '42, I'm still in early June '42. What should be the daily surplus in Heavy Industry (HI)?? I'm getting about 1500 daily. Good or too low??

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Fort building - What is the general guidelines on building them? Any particular size to go to for regular bases, major bases like Rangoon, Manila, etc? I have a few key bases built up to size 5, but is there a reason to build up to size 4, 5, or 6??

While this game is in Dec '42, I'm still in early June '42. What should be the daily surplus in Heavy Industry (HI)?? I'm getting about 1500 daily. Good or too low??

Forts will help to prevent losses to strategic assets as well: oil, industry, resources, and so forth, so building forts at key strategic bombing locations is a good idea. Forts are very good on atolls as well, where attacks can get dicey if the allies do not bring major support, BBs for bombardment, CVs for ground support airstrikes, and so forth. Finally, forths slow the allied advance. Two, three, or four attacks are often needed to take a base with level 5 forts, which can result in a delay of two or three weeks. This delay will give you a chance to respond, and it will be very difficult for his CVs and air cover to remain on station for 2 or 3 weeks. That is basically the idea with forts in the Pacific theater. Try to plan a defense whereby your defenders can outlast his ability to remain on station, so that you can reinforce or counter-attack.

In Burma and China, forts are not quite as important, since the line will tend to be fluid and bases can be surrounded. Units will build a small level of forts in non-base hexes, and this is usually satisfactory. Large ports, such as Rangoon, are important, since this allows supplies and units to be moved more quickly to the front. Basically fortify your primary airfields, your strategic resource sites, and the key ports in the west.

Then fortify the Home Islands.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Fort building - What is the general guidelines on building them? Any particular size to go to for regular bases, major bases like Rangoon, Manila, etc? I have a few key bases built up to size 5, but is there a reason to build up to size 4, 5, or 6??

While this game is in Dec '42, I'm still in early June '42. What should be the daily surplus in Heavy Industry (HI)?? I'm getting about 1500 daily. Good or too low??

Forts will help to prevent losses to strategic assets as well: oil, industry, resources, and so forth, so building forts at key strategic bombing locations is a good idea. Forts are very good on atolls as well, where attacks can get dicey if the allies do not bring major support, BBs for bombardment, CVs for ground support airstrikes, and so forth. Finally, forths slow the allied advance. Two, three, or four attacks are often needed to take a base with level 5 forts, which can result in a delay of two or three weeks. This delay will give you a chance to respond, and it will be very difficult for his CVs and air cover to remain on station for 2 or 3 weeks. That is basically the idea with forts in the Pacific theater. Try to plan a defense whereby your defenders can outlast his ability to remain on station, so that you can reinforce or counter-attack.

In Burma and China, forts are not quite as important, since the line will tend to be fluid and bases can be surrounded. Units will build a small level of forts in non-base hexes, and this is usually satisfactory. Large ports, such as Rangoon, are important, since this allows supplies and units to be moved more quickly to the front. Basically fortify your primary airfields, your strategic resource sites, and the key ports in the west.

Then fortify the Home Islands.

Mike,

You been asking this around several times. Kinda surprised, but I will give you what I know.

Very different experience with forts compared to above ... I've never been able to stop the even the AI for 3 weeks with forts 6. And H2H testing is far less.


however, forts do help. Its a tradeoff. supply for time. Depends upon how many days you want. My formula is F-3 = days I will buy. Not weeks.
And that is just a thumb in the wind estimate because it depends entirely upon how much the allies bring. So, it is based upon what I would typically expect the allies to show up with.
They show up with 6xID when I'm expecting 3xID or they are able to put 4 bombardment TF's on target when I plan to allow only 1 or (you get the idea)... yeah that formula won't mean anything, they prolly take the base on first attack.

So forts are just one part of the overall defenses scheme, just like how many air groups, MTB's, mines, etc. Right. No way to answer the question in a vacuum and no right answer. It depends upon what you are trying to do.

[Aurorus]

I guess that I should have specified that forts will not slow down the allies for weeks on atolls, rather on the better terrain large islands and land bases that double (or in some cases triple) defense. I refer especially to Truk, Chich-Jima, Rabaul, Saipan, Guam, and so forth. As Pax points out, it does depend on how much the allies bring. An IJA division under level 5 forts is not going to hold up 6 allied divisions for long, regardless.

Using forts to hold up the allied player for an extended period depends on how the allied player is proceeding. If he advancing systematically with short leaps and reconning targets in advance to determine precisely what is there, it will be more difficult to hold him up for an extended period. If he is relying exclusively on sigint to determine what to commit to an assault, he can be pretty easily thwarted by stronger forts (and late-arriving reinforcements from a strategically located central reserve).

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

200 vehicle and 30K in pool....very good, maybe only ok depending if you lose a lot of tanks. Perhaps a slight boost to 230 since this is scenario 2 right? Plenty of tanks there and it stinks running out of them for the big type 3 upgrade in 6/44. What you might want to do is convert the arm factory at Keijo to afvs...since you really aren't worried about making it to soviet activation. This will give you a non standard vehicle factory which Allies might over look once Honshu is a smoking ruin. Just a thought.

If you make enough fighters (Frank, Sam, George, Tojo, Tony) you can wear out the Allied air force in 1944 till November ...if you can do that, it will really slow down his advance. But you need thousands of those fighters.

You can look at devices afvs and get a clue if you are upgrading to a new model and have obsolete tanks in the pools.

So if Mr. Kane is marching up from Rabaul...think now about defending Luzon. Get some big airfields on the rail network, build the crap out of the forts at Clark and Manila and Batan and stuff it with supply and some decent AA. Plan on making it a fortress that will keep his attention. He will want a forward shipyard...make it very difficult for him to get one.

At the same time build up Okinawa, Formosa, the Chinese bases behind Formosa, Daito and Bonins. Engineers should be there working on the defenses already. You can convert some islands to General Defense and then fly in restricted troops saving a bunch of PP in the process...pays to convert the islands when they aren't built up yet.

Make sure you use your command HQ on bases he has to take and get their prep to 100, match it with a smaller HQ and it is a great force multiplier and that is what you need.

Keep an eye on your land reinforcements and make sure you have shipping for them to get them to the bases they need to be quickly, even if it is a reserve base.

Just keep collapsing your perimeter back, don't worry about losing troops, bypassed troops can be flown out, destroyed troops rebuilt at Tokyo. As long as your ground troops are delaying the Allies it is all good. You are fighting for time...time to get reinforcements...notably the big AA reinforcements that come just prior to the B29. However it sucks if you are in bombing distance from B24s before then. Also you get several great chunks of troops, and each month should be able to buyout a division, artillery, support troops from Manchuko...strip it to the bone since you won't really be stripping China down.

With Japan there is always something to look forward too...the next fighter, the army fighter expansion, the type 3 tank, radar, toe upgrades, reinforcements, ships. So much, fun! But you do need to plan ahead to realize the goodies and get them in the fight fast.

Just a couple of caveats. Think of them refinements ... things you may not do this game, but watch for them so you understand the why.

"don't worry about losing troops, bypassed troops can be flown out,"
Yes they can, but it is expensive. At least 1 supply pt for each device. Now, you absolutely do this, BUT you can minimize the necessity with planning. Sea transport is a lot cheaper.

"destroyed troops rebuilt at Tokyo."
Again yes and you do it. BUT, you always try to minimize lost units because replacements come in at the national starting point (generally 35 exp for IJ). So the unit comes back green and exp is a big deal.
Having said that, you will lose units, there is no way you won't. Just plan for it and be careful which ones you commit to 'final stands'.

[Xargun]

The North Pacific has been quiet since Mr Kane raided the home islands with his CVs back in early 42. I have search assets up here and moved them to Paramushiro a while back. For a week they had spotted a small allied TF at Attu - recon suggests merchants and a DD or 2. What looked like a resupply TF. So I took a chance - which is sometimes hard for me to do. I sent a small Surface TF of 5 DDs lead by a CL to investigate. They got with 6 hexes of Attu without being spotted and on the 14th they were ordered in.

They arrived during night and completely surprised the allied TF which (as I hoped) was a resupply TF consisting a 5 ships.



The IJN ships started at 11k yards and proceeded to close constantly firing as they went. The allied PC tried a few return shots but it was pitiful. The IJN won the fight, landing dozens of main gun shots, as well as multiple torpedoes and AA weaponry as well. The allied xAKs were carrying fuel as each ship had the Fuel Cargo Burning messages. Not sure if they brought in supply as well or not, but most likely fuel for subs or to support upcoming missions.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Attu Island at 153,49, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Yubari
DD Yudachi
DD Hatsuharu
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima
DD Wakaba

Allied Ships
PC Warrego, Shell hits 40, and is sunk
xAK Exchange, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Rodman Coleman, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK T. A. Johnson, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Exhibitor, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk


I know its not much in the scheme of the war, but I got to take my 'free' victories where I can. No ships were damaged in the fight - just ammo expended.