Forlorn Hopes: The Japanese Respond

[ny59giants]

I have supply/fuel loading and headed to our designated rendezous base. After next turn that I recieve (wink, wink [:D]) and can update things, I'll post what TF are going where.

I will review aircraft production to ensure that enough engines are being built. Right now, we are in very good shape on Mitsubishi engines (2100 in reserve!).

Next is to get my first turn to you (by sometime Thursday at the latest) for our PBEM using Empire's Ablaze. The blessing from your game is the learning curve has been steep here, so hopefully I will not crash and burn over there.  

[bbbf]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I had something happen the turn after Rangoon fell.  I moved a bunch of barges from Moulmein to Rangoon for continued evacuation of Japanese troops are I had 20 of them hit mines and sink.  The only mines there are the ones I had sown...

Do minefields change allegiance the moment a base falls? 

Minefields don't change sides, they just become hostile to everybody!

[John 3rd]

It helps knowing that!  Another New House Rule Note: Mines may only be laid in increments of 2,000/Pt Size. I am abusing this right now and wouldn't like it myself.  Will remember that!

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Next is to get my first turn to you (by sometime Thursday at the latest) for our PBEM using Empire's Ablaze. The blessing from your game is the learning curve has been steep here, so hopefully I will not crash and burn over there.

Not sure I should say this here, but make sure that you fill up all your pilots into grps (only applicable, if you have variable setup first turn), If you do this, nothing is taken from the pool. It's a little cheeky, but I think everyone does it ! Planes added to groups, will be taken from the pool however ...

Sorry John ...

[John 3rd]

Combat Report
September 4, 1943
 
Mos Eisley (Tori Shima)
I was WAY off in my prediction of PT-Boats at Tori Shima!  I predicted 18 and was DEAD WRONG.  There wasn't 18, there were 29.  How about that?  Rr-Adm Kawahigashi's ships didn't ave ENOUGH ammunition to stop them whatsoever.  Though 6 of these vessels were confirmed destroyed they managed to sink THREE Japanese DD:  Maikaze, Kiyonami, and Hatsushima.  No more raids there...
 
New House Rule for John Campaigns:  Port 0-2 can have 6 PT, 3-5 12 PT, 6-8 18 PT, and 9+ can have anything!  Seems realistic to me.
 
Iwo Jima
My good General at Iwo reports that the Allies managed to put together a Shock Attack---all 150,000 of them!  Units Observered:  8 Inf Div, 1 Engineer Reg, 1 Base Force, 2 TK Btn, 2 Art Reg, 3 AA units, and 2 Marine Btn.  They manage to reach an AS of 1,000 (possible 2,600 AS) and get a 3-1 attack that reduces the Forts to 2 and inflicts 1,600 Casualties.  Iwo will fall next turn.  Mines still sit at a respectable 8,500.
 
Tokyo Strike
16 Z and 29 B hit 3 more DM.
 
Rescuing Troops:  7th Inf Div and 27th Inf Div troops enter the water for rescue.
 
Burma
Rangoon  The Allies hit the remaining troops with a 106-1 attack!  I lose 7,134 Cas for only 472 Allied Cas.  This leaves about 15,000 troops there.  I order the last 21 Barges to move from Moulmein to Rangoon and a final lift.  Expect to lose most of them but if I can save any troops that will help.
 
Have troops and fragments of units spread at Moulmein, Tavoy, Georgetown, and all point in between.  Will begin to reorganize them at Bangkok.  Moulmein is the next logical target but it has 2,500+ AS right now and I will not be pulling out of there until I am driven out.
 
Another new John House Rule:  There can only be a maximum of 600 carrier-based planes in a single hex.  I have seen rules like this elsewhere but it is not in Dan and I's list.  Keeping EVERY CV in the same hex is impossible to fight.  I've run into an average of 350 F6F whenever something has approached his CV TFs.
 

[John 3rd]

n0148...

That is a fine reminder that I was unaware of until I started this campaign!  HELL--this AAR is serving as a Japanese Fan Boy learning experience and I think that is great.  More comment the better regarding playing the Japanese.  I really am enjoying turning on the computer to see which new (or not so new) person has jumped in a with a new piece of infomation and/or comment.

Seems to be really working out!

[tabpub]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

The Americans managed to completely refuel, replenish, and supply themselves from the ultra-modern HUGE Port of Tori Shima within a span of 24 hours from Sept 2nd to 3rd.  They did it so well that the 12-15 Aircraft Carriers and 10 or so battleships were then in position to place LRCAP over Iwo Jima to destroy a Japanese air attack from pagan.

How did the American do this with only a small anchorage with a 75 foot wooden pier that protected fishing vessels a few days ago?  Easy!  They used Star Wars Era technology to do so.  This is the only explanation I can realistically see...

WHAT CRAP...

I am now shifting over to the AE Forum to make a comment.

An excerpt from over a year ago in the "Eternity" AAR. At the time, Pago Pago was under assault from your IJN as you might recall.....

3/2/2007 9:50:45 AM


Cap Mandrake
Battlefields! Beta Tester





Posts: 6394
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline The 2nd Marine Division have again held their lines after a second huge Japanese attack on Pago Pago. It seems every SNLF and free brigade from the South Pacific has been thrown into the fray along with the initial 3 division equivalents. A huge number of transports have been damaged or sunk by shore guns. The IJN has somehow managed to drag a supply of battleship main gun ammo to Upolu...so Pago Pago is now getting visited regularly by two BB's lobbing big shells onto the defenders. Every day 50+ Jap bombers pound the island. At least 4 Jap carriers (2 CV and 2 CVL) and possibly 6 are on station to the NE to intercept any resupply/evac attempt

bolding added for clarity

Perhaps you forgot about this? Otherwise why the surprise?

[Sheytan]

PT boats didnt need extensive facilities. They were beached...and repaired or serviced. I wouldnt get too excited about it.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Combat Report
September 4, 1943
 
Mos Eisley (Tori Shima)
I was WAY off in my prediction of PT-Boats at Tori Shima!  I predicted 18 and was DEAD WRONG.  There wasn't 18, there were 29.  How about that?  Rr-Adm Kawahigashi's ships didn't ave ENOUGH ammunition to stop them whatsoever.  Though 6 of these vessels were confirmed destroyed they managed to sink THREE Japanese DD:  Maikaze, Kiyonami, and Hatsushima.  No more raids there...

New House Rule for John Campaigns:  Port 0-2 can have 6 PT, 3-5 12 PT, 6-8 18 PT, and 9+ can have anything!  Seems realistic to me.

Iwo Jima
My good General at Iwo reports that the Allies managed to put together a Shock Attack---all 150,000 of them!  Units Observered:  8 Inf Div, 1 Engineer Reg, 1 Base Force, 2 TK Btn, 2 Art Reg, 3 AA units, and 2 Marine Btn.  They manage to reach an AS of 1,000 (possible 2,600 AS) and get a 3-1 attack that reduces the Forts to 2 and inflicts 1,600 Casualties.  Iwo will fall next turn.  Mines still sit at a respectable 8,500.

Tokyo Strike
16 Z and 29 B hit 3 more DM.

Rescuing Troops:  7th Inf Div and 27th Inf Div troops enter the water for rescue.

Burma
Rangoon  The Allies hit the remaining troops with a 106-1 attack!  I lose 7,134 Cas for only 472 Allied Cas.  This leaves about 15,000 troops there.  I order the last 21 Barges to move from Moulmein to Rangoon and a final lift.  Expect to lose most of them but if I can save any troops that will help.

Have troops and fragments of units spread at Moulmein, Tavoy, Georgetown, and all point in between.  Will begin to reorganize them at Bangkok.  Moulmein is the next logical target but it has 2,500+ AS right now and I will not be pulling out of there until I am driven out.

Another new John House Rule:  There can only be a maximum of 600 carrier-based planes in a single hex.  I have seen rules like this elsewhere but it is not in Dan and I's list.  Keeping EVERY CV in the same hex is impossible to fight.  I've run into an average of 350 F6F whenever something has approached his CV TFs.

[ny59giants]

Here is the list of upcoming LCU reinforcement per my under-minister.

Next lesson for me, is the LCUs. Afterwards, its going to be Aircraft Production
How do I determine how much Armament and Vehilces I will need to fill them out??

[n01487477]

Michael,
this screen is a bit dumb, in the sense that it doesn't take note of TOE yet, but it will in later iterations ... This screen just shows how it will arrive...

Can you check sometime that the Delay is correct(in the game), there seems to be a "large" gap between units ... but then I've never got to mid '43 . And there are some kinks in the Delay filter. Sorry.

When you use the Delay filter, the Delay Need display changes to reflect just what is showing.
M/A/V are obviously Manpower/Arm/Veh

So, compare Have with Delay Need,
1. I realise that Manpower is off the hook at present, but you must have plenty... so no probs.
2. You have 58951 Arm Pts, these 4 units will cost 1468 points
3. You have 822 Veh Pts, these units will cost 0

The Reinforcement Need is for all your LCU's NOT delayed (out there, working for your tax Yen)

I've found for the best results to turn off all reinforcements to LCU's before the new one arrives,(they tend to arrive 2 days before) then they tend to come in full. But only if you have enough Pts, obviously!

The 25th Ind Mixed, will come in at 76%, this is a DB setting for it, not the game. It will use 7994 Manpower pts to fill to this level, and 938 Arm Pts. It's TOE number is the same as the unit, so it will not have to fill out to a different TOE configuration ... (You guys know what I mean)

When it arrives the Reinf columns will show what it needs to fill out, now that it is in the field.

It's calculated AV (very difficult calculation I might add..& can be +/- 1 pt at present) is 148 and can be loaded on an AP for 9222 cost.

I guess the thing is to look into the future and determine how much you'll need and plan for that ... In the next 60 days you're fine to build these new units, but not to repair all the existing LCU's. you might have to be selective with which ones you want to reinforce ... as Reinf Need is 137900/16102/1072 (it's the Vehicles you have a problem with)

---Damian---
Any questions ? comments ? 90/120 Days Filter ? I'm pretty sure the values are working correctly, but bug testing is the long haul ... (& this was a recent addition)

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Every engine or plane built costs 18 HI

Note that airframes cost 18 HI per engine. All 2 engine planes cost a total of 72 HI, 36 for 2 engines and 36 for the airframe.

[n01487477]

Thanks Mike,
sorry I was talking about 1 engine planes and yes I said "or", meaning 18 each...but I didn't realise that a 2 engine airframe cost double ... I'll have to check that I have that right ... it was months ago I programmed that...

Thanks for the heads-up!

---Damian---

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I had something happen the turn after Rangoon fell.  I moved a bunch of barges from Moulmein to Rangoon for continued evacuation of Japanese troops are I had 20 of them hit mines and sink.  The only mines there are the ones I had sown...

Do minefields change allegiance the moment a base falls? 

Not exactly. There are two types of minefields, offensive and defensive. Offensive can hit ships of either side while defensive can only hit enemy ships. If you own a base and have your own minefield there, it's a defensive minefield. (Any enemy minefields there are offensive.) If the enemy takes that base from you, your minefields become offensive and the enemy minefields become defensive. So, in the case you described above, your Rangoon minefields became offensive.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Engine factories are builds per month so the above is actually 480 + 430 + 48 + (1440/30) = 1006

Thanks Mike!!

So back to WitP Chart and Tracker I have these numbers (per day):
HI - 15250
Oil - 2191 x 6 = 13146
Naval - 1366 x 3 = 4098 HI needed
Merchant - 981 x 3 = 2943
Amrament - 248 x 6 = 1488
Vehicles - 121 x 6 = 726
Planes - 1769/30days = 59/day x 18 = 1061
Engines - 2168/30days = 72/day x 18 = 1300

Thus, HI needed each day to run things is 11,616
Subtract the saving (shutdown of plants this turn ) using Mike's new numbers that means 11616 - 1006 = 10610 HI needed per day.

How much HI should I try to budget daily to be put into reserve??

I mentioned this earlier. It's 18 HI per engine for the cost of an airframe so this is actually a low estimate.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Engine factories are builds per month so the above is actually 480 + 430 + 48 + (1440/30) = 1006

Thanks Mike!!

So back to WitP Chart and Tracker I have these numbers (per day):
HI - 15250
Oil - 2191 x 6 = 13146
Naval - 1366 x 3 = 4098 HI needed
Merchant - 981 x 3 = 2943
Amrament - 248 x 6 = 1488
Vehicles - 121 x 6 = 726
Planes - 1769/30days = 59/day x 18 = 1061
Engines - 2168/30days = 72/day x 18 = 1300

Thus, HI needed each day to run things is 11,616
Subtract the saving (shutdown of plants this turn ) using Mike's new numbers that means 11616 - 1006 = 10610 HI needed per day.

How much HI should I try to budget daily to be put into reserve??

Good question. The easy answer is as much as possible. I try to build up a hefty reserve of HI, engines, oil, resources and "good" planes. They can't be destroyed by Allied bombing. My goal is to have at least a million HI in the pool by mid 44.

[saj42]

I must get this Tracker tool up and running now I see how to use it....

Anyway three game observations:
1. Re PT boats - I too have a house rule, of 2x 6 boat TFs max per base hex.
2. Tori Shima Mega Port - if your opponents ships are refuelling from the port (fuel and ammo) then I too would complain. HOWEVER If he's using Replen TFs (AOs and AEs) to refuel 'at sea' then that to me is acceptable. They spend Op Pts when you use them, so can only replenish a limited number of ships per turn.
3. If you are going to bombard Iwo Jima with BBs do it before you loose control - we don't want to see your BBs hit the 8500 mines that then become hostile to both navies [X(]

[Nemo121]

Guys, an airframe costs 18 HI, an engine costs 18 so

Single engined plane = 36 HI
twin-engined plane = 54
four-engined plane = 90 HI

Twin-engined planes are 50% more expensive than single-engined planes. This is highly questionable but there you have it.



One thing though - Do make sure your house rules cut both ways. You've replenished BB ammo lockers from small bases in the past etc so I think that it is only fair to let your opponent gain the benefit from his clever strategem ( taking Tori Shima before moving onto Iwo ). I know it hurts to take losses etc but you are taking them because he did something that worked well and you ordered a raid on Tori Shima which you should never have done. It was bound to cost more than it would win.

Just take the punches, learn from it and move on. I know you didn't ask for these comments but I think that what's fair for the goose is fair for the gander in this situation.

[John 3rd]

tabpub:

That was a nice reminder with the exception that I was doing my replenishment from Suva with a Port of 4 or 5, AEs, MLEs, ASs, and anything else I would need for the Port to be able to realistically resupply these vessels.  I don't think you noticed that there were two PAIRS of BBs who were doing those Bombardments at the time.  This enabled to me to hit Pago Pago every 2-3 days with the two TF.  It worked pretty well and was REALISTIC.

This is the quote from my AAR at the Time:

Put simply, the war revolves the American bastion of Pago-Pago (Samoa). For the last six weeks, the entire focus of the Pacific War has been squarely placed on this island. When I set about to conquer the ENTIRE SE Pacific, I knew I might get a chance to destroy enemy units that were not, historically taken out. I accomplished this while taking New Caledonia, Nandi/Suva, and Canton--plus everything else in between--and had set my sights on the last American outpost in the SE Pacific.

Intelligence and Recon had placed resistance at about 7 units and 20,000 defenders. Figuring that that the actually numbers might be close to double this, I planned accordingly and landed with two complete Infantry Divisions, two Independent Brigades, and several supporting units. To my shock and somewhat horror, I found that I was confronting the 2nd Marine Division, 2 Marine CD Units, a Para Btn, and five BF! YIKES!!! Thankfully, I had enough strength to land and HOLD my beachhead!

The decision then became what to do.
Once my initial shock wore off at the opposition, I realized that I had been given a golden opportunity. No matter how many American Carriers and Cruisers I sank, they would all be replaced. A Marine Division COULD NOT! That realization changed everything.
In the six weeks that we have struggled for the island, I have moved two more Independent Brigades and most of the Java Island Campaign Force--three more ENTIRE divisions--to this island. During that time I have also withdrawn two of the more severely beat-up Brigades.

Everything has now assumed a pattern:

1. As I moved my convoys carrying all these troops back and forth, they have concentrated US SS throughout the area and have been having a field day hitting my AK/AP. I have moved nearly 50 ASW ships in to try and counter the threat. The Marine CD fire has been murderous as well!

2. I have accumulated a HUGE amount of airpower here. My airfields at Nandi (AF-3 near 4), Suva (AF-3 near 4), Canton (AF-4), Upolu (AF-2) and Tongatapu (AF-3 near 4) are chock full of aircraft. I, initially could only attack from Tongatapu, but now Upolu has grown to a Sz-2 AF and Kates/Vals have added their weight to the attack. Daily strikes hit the Marines, AF, and other targets.

3. The Combined Fleet is TETHERED to this damned island. Have never felt so controlled by an island in my gaming life! I have 7 CV (Akagi/Kaga, Shokaku/Zuikaku, Soryu, and 2 CVL) staying close enough to keep my opponents from trying to reinforce or evacuate the island. The island (actually islands) is bombarded 2-3 times a week by two BB TF from Suva. I have a highly useful screen of about 10 Glen SS that are in an arc about 12 hexes from Pago-Pago that have allowed me to know when the American Fleet has been sniffing around. My warships are all tired and not at peak efficiency. Once the island falls, then I will rest and refit my capital ships.


Thanks for reminding me of that fight though.  It was along, tough brawl that gutted a ton of my units!

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

tabpub:

That was a nice reminder with the exception that I was doing my replenishment from Suva with a Port of 4 or 5, AEs, MLEs, ASs, and anything else I would need for the Port to be able to realistically resupply these vessels.  I don't think you noticed that there were two PAIRS of BBs who were doing those Bombardments at the time.  This enabled to me to hit Pago Pago every 2-3 days with the two TF.  It worked pretty well and was REALISTIC.

sorry John, while it worked surely pretty well, it was also surely not realistic. None of the bombardments we do in the game are realistic. Okay, perhaps some are realistic. But the number of bombardments we do is 100 times higher than what the Japanese could do because they would not have the gun barrells to do so.

So it works, yes, is it realistic? no

[John 3rd]

Guys--I LOVE the comments!  Tallyho and Castor provide excellent thoughts and cogent appraisals.  I'm simply frustrated at these developments and venting.  Please keep the opinions rolling!
 
Dan sent an email saying that he thought I might be upset regarding these delvelopments and that he took Mos Eisely because he feared running low on Sorties.  IT IS FALL 1943!  He is supposed to fear this.  This is the exact reason why the Americans never leaped 2,500 miles in a single jump.  It was inherantly dangerous.  Going from Midway to Iwo Jima is a monstrous risk and should never have occurred in a sane world. 
 
I know this isn't a sane world.  It is a situation I have to deal with.  I am preparing to roll the dice as per Nemo's thoughts and my own evaluations.  We shall see how it goes.  Will post a screenshot of the battlezone with the next turn.
 
Comments on the proposed Battleplan will be MOST welcome!  [:D][:D][:D]