TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Okay - although I think that regardless of the Communist situation, it is right for the Nationalists to start looking at Central China. The Communist position remains uncomfortable, but the Nationalists could be in the same boat pretty quickly......

The Nationalist position is already uncomfortable. Leaving a couple of units in that hex that would be rebuild and appear as reinforcements someplace else wouldn't have been all bad. Although they could have been trapped there I deem it unlikely since it is on the Japanese route of advance and supply.

One objection in giving that hex to the Japanese without a fight is that I think it makes their position easier to play. Not necessarily better. China mostly plays for time so I do not mind giving them some good attacks if it costs Japan time. And that hex could cost Japan time and they might not get that good attack for a while either.

But with that said it might be that your call was the right call. That's what makes this a interesting game. So many ways to play. [:)]

[Orm]

I think Germany will DOW Spain now. What do you think?

[brian brian]

As the Japanese, I would be ecstatic if the Chinese just simply gave me a mountain hex in front of a key objective, for free. Their Sian campaign just accelerated by one whole turn.

Yes the German DoW will come now. Neither side took interest in their strong chance to eliminate two RAF pilots at once, as they couldn't rebase into Spain yet.

A pity the search for the Italian fleet failed. Their division will land somewhere — and that will bring out their TRS...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

As the Japanese, I would be ecstatic if the Chinese just simply gave me a mountain hex in front of a key objective, for free. Their Sian campaign just accelerated by one whole turn.

warspite1

Maybe, maybe not. I don't understand how you can state categorically that the Japanese campaign accelerated one whole turn (although bow to your greater experience of playing the game).

My thinking is simply. Maybe they would attack that hex and throw a 1 - in which case my decision is stupid. But maybe they would attack that hex and throw a 10 and with little left in Sian to protect that city.... or I put maximum into Sian and leave the hexes north free for the Japanese to try and outflank the position.

My decision gives the Japanese a free mountain hex, but it perhaps keeps the vital city of Sian in Chinese hands for a bit longer.

With the Japanese now pushing up from the south and from the east into Central China, I do not see how the Nationalists should continue to defend the Communists in the north and allow the Japanese coming from Wuhan to walk in to Central China.

[brian brian]

Sure, the Nationalists are needed in the south, no question. Though the campaign there will be on pause for the most part during Monsoon season, it does take the Chinese a long time to move around inside their country.

Before the mountain hex was evacuated, the Japanese had only one hex to attack Sian from, across a river. Now they have two hexes and can perhaps try a direct assault, probably only realistic if they were lucky to flip all the defenders first. Really they need 3 hexes to get a good attack, which is generally true everywhere in WiF. But they had no option at all to try it from only the one hex.

Anyhow, the odds they take the mountain hex without flipping were pretty low. Yes, they could take the hex and kill whatever is in the hex, but it would not be easy, even with just one defending unit - and two were definitely available. Thus the 'one turn' comment - now they can use the rest of the May/Jun turn to try and get a 3rd hex on Sian, instead of a second. If they take a 3rd hex, Sian will fall in Jul/Aug or Sep/Oct. Or they can just start sending in their bombers on air impulses until the defenders are all flipped (what I would do right here, possibly, though the Japanese look low on bombers), as Mao is not available to re-org. Also they might just try a direct assault immediately, before the ChiComms can bring up a 3rd defender. Holding the mountain hex might have helped the Chinese hold Sian through the rest of the summer of 1940.

Here is another way to look at it - pretend you are the Japanese commander. If you asked him if he would want to have that hex for free, what would the answer be? It is rarely good strategy to do what your enemy wishes you would do. There is a time for the Chinese to retreat and there is a time for them to trade in a unit(s) for time. Sian is an automatic Build Point per turn for the Chinese - that's 2 INF / year, well worth fighting for. Fortunately for them, the Japanese have hardly been resolute in pushing towards such a key hex as they wander around here and there in central China instead.

And now the Chinese have to make this exact same decision all over again with the mountain hex to the south-east of Sian....which was also previously protected by the mountain hex just given up.

[brian brian]

Well I like the Spanish set-up. I particularly like the freedom available to the Spanish infantry division (can't recall where the CW At-Start infantry division is?)

Anyway I would be tempted to play a little smash-mouth football with that division, if you can ever spare the action limits. The supply link to Sardinia is rather tenuous right now, for example ... the German NAV are far away ... eventually the Axis might uncover a key coastal rail link hex ... but then a 3rd unit on top of a key stack is a good thing to have also.

Who aligned Spain, by the way?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Well I like the Spanish set-up. I particularly like the freedom available to the Spanish infantry division (can't recall where the CW At-Start infantry division is?)

Anyway I would be tempted to play a little smash-mouth football with that division, if you can ever spare the action limits. The supply link to Sardinia is rather tenuous right now, for example ... the German NAV are far away ... eventually the Axis might uncover a key coastal rail link hex ... but then a 3rd unit on top of a key stack is a good thing to have also.

Who aligned Spain, by the way?

CW aligned Spain. Mostly for the defensive shore bombardment and co-operation in Gibraltar.

The CW at start division has been destroyed.

CW recently broke down a Corps in Gibraltar so there is one motorized, and one leg, division in Gibraltar.

[Orm]

CW has a MECH and a HQI in UK. And CW has two TRS available and they reach the Bay of Biscay. But, alas, Germany has a naval bomber in the 'Bay of Biscay' that is available to initiate combat. And it is escorted by a fighter. Should I wait with loading the units on the transporters and do a land impulse?

The situation in Spain is far better than I expected but I do not plan to defend the centre, nor Madrid. It would be nice if I could get some defence to the Sierra Nevada mountains. Maybe defend Cadiz and the river line. That, unfortunately feels like pure science fiction.

I think that the first priority in Spain should be and try to avoid a Spanish surrender. And, to me, that is to defend Bilbao strongly. And preferably defend all the mountain hexes around the city.

And I am considering 'CW aid Spain' as my second goal.

And thirdly defend the hexes just North of Gibraltar. Although any Spanish units here will be removed if Spain is conquered.

Thoughts so far?

[brian brian]

I would use the MECH in front of Gibraltar. Move Wavell there and that gets to be a tough hex to take, esp. If the CW gun can move there and is an AA or AT. The Germans would have to use the Blitz table to push them out and they could retreat to Tangier.

I think I would use the HQ-I around Gibraltar too.

Is there any other units left in the UK that could be used @ Bilbao? Canadians? South Africans?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I would use the MECH in front of Gibraltar. Move Wavell there and that gets to be a tough hex to take, esp. If the CW gun can move there and is an AA or AT. The Germans would have to use the Blitz table to push them out and they could retreat to Tangier.

I think I would use the HQ-I around Gibraltar too.

Is there any other units left in the UK that could be used @ Bilbao? Canadians? South Africans?

Left in UK is as follows:
HQI (Gort) -> Plymouth
MECH + AT -> Liverpool
MIL (Glasgow) -> London
+
ATR (Harrow)
+
One cruiser, two CW (no aircraft), and two CVL (no aircraft). And two convoy points.

That is all. Not even one fighter left to report. I am glad that there is a limited threat of invasion.

The main trouble with transporting units from England to south of Spain is that the two transports are not in England. One in Gibraltar and one in Africa. They can both reach Bay of Biscay but returning to Cadiz, or Gibraltar, disorganizes the cargo.

CW forces that can be used to reinforce Spain, Algeria, Morocco include the following:
INF - India
2 x TERR - South Africa
MIL + TERR - Australia

Most of what CW has available is already in the area.
GARR, MIL, 2 x FTR2 - Bayonne
MOT, INF div, MOT div - Gibraltar
2 x INF (one disorganized) - Morocco
HQA (Wavell) + MIL (disorganized) + LND3 - Algeria
LND3 + ENG - Malta

Only remaining forces are relocated to Egypt or partisan defence.

In Egypt area:
2 x TERR
INF
MIL
ART

On the bright side is that CW has several fighters (4) at sea that should be available next turn.

[warspite1]

Ormster I won't be able to look at this until the weekend so you can either carry on or wait until then. Entirely happy with whichever approach you wish to adopt.

[Orm]

Ormster I won't be able to look at this until the weekend so you can either carry on or wait until then.

No chance you can take a look at Communist China and USSR before then?

[warspite1]

I'll try tomorrow - work permitting.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I'll try tomorrow - work permitting.

Workload has increased, I presume.

[warspite1]

Yes indeedy.....

[warspite1]

Ormster these are my Soviet/Chinese moves

No declarations of war

3-3 Vitebsk to Zhukov

Chinese
Commie division to Si-An
1st Inf to (77,136)
2nd Inf to (75,136)

Soviets
2nd Siberian to (34,55)
3-2 AT near Kiev to (55,54)

No air re-base

[Orm]

I took the liberty of making some changes to the Communist moves. This because the Nationalists stay in their positions in the North (with minor adjustments). And I am still concerned about a Japanese outflanking manoeuvre to the North.

[Orm]

Warspite1 has, unfortunately, had some trouble receiving the latest save so I uploaded it here.

[warspite1]

Thanks. Good to see we are getting some joy with naval search.

Here are the orders for the Soviets. Chinese Commies - no action.

No Naval Air

Rail Movement
4-1 GARR to Tehran

Land Moves
AT to Chisinau
5-3 in Cutatea-Alba to one hex west
3-3 in Vilna to forest hex south-west
ENG in Minsk to same forest hex.

No Rebase
(I can't rebase the bomber as the newly arrived Garrison is flipped and doesn't count for Garrison purposes).

[Orm]

What do you think about the Spanish situation? I thought Germany would advance towards Gibraltar as fast as possible. But now it seems that Axis will prioritize knocking Spain out of the war over reaching Gibraltar fast.

I am considering landing the HQI and MECH in the Bilbao area. And that leaves one land move for CW. Or I could leave the HQI and MECH at sea for a return to base in South of Spain and have three land moves in Spain. Thoughts? Should the CW Militia in Bilbao move to the hex SW of Bilbao?