The PERFECT WAR Mod

[FatR]

Great work, kfsgo, thanks.

Meanwhile, returning to our fighters, proposal #2 (no pre-war interceptors).

First, to get it out of the way, on aircraft armament unification:

As in RA, let's use the Army's standard for rifle-calibre machineguns, and skip copying obsolete German models. Ho-103 MG is developed as IRL, but once Browning M2 is successfully copied in 1943 (rechambered for the 13.2 Hotchkiss cartridge) as Navy Type 3, the Army eventually adopts is as well late in the war, where it is possible, for standardization purposes (both IJN and IJA used 13.2 calibre, 12.7 cartridge adopted for Ho-103 was yet another for-one-weapon-only deviation). Navy's Oerlikon FFL copies (Type 99-2) are used in limited number on Army's planes early in the war, instead of Ho-1 and Ho-3, because the latter are infer. Late in the war Ho-5 20mm and Type 5 30mm cannons become standard for both services.

Returning to planes, proposes IJAAF lineup:

Nakajima keeps improving Ki-43 while its susessor is not yet ready, then stops, but the plane might remain in production, maybe by other company, like Tachikawa, as IRL, for a while after that, until its engine is removed from production.
Ki-43-Ic - at the start
Ki-43-IIa - 7/42
Ki-43-IIb - 12/42

Stats as per the last version of Scen 70. The plane is kept


Frank Lite, succeeding it, will use Mitsubishi Ha-33 engine. Let's name it, say, Ki-81. Rough outline:

Ki-81-Ia - 2/43. The initial production version, still not very reliable. Topspeed 357 mph, MVR slightly lower than final Oscars, ceiling slightly higher, Durability 28, Armor 1, Normal range 7/10, 4x12.7 Ho-103 HMGs, Service Rating 2.
Ki-81-Ib - 9/43. After overcoming teething troubles with the engine, adding some extra protection/armament, improved drop tanks. Topspeed 360 mph, MVR 1-2 points lower than the previous version, Durability 30, Armor 1, Normal range 7/11, 2x12.7 Ho-103 + 2x20 Type 99-2, Service Rating 1.
Ki-81-Ic - 3/44. As Ib, but with even more polish to engine and airframe, and Ho-5 20mm cannons instead of Type 99-2. Topspeed 370 mph.
Ki-81-II KAIa - 10/44. Uses Ha-33 engine with a turbosupercharger and water-methanol injection, similar to those planned for Ki-100-IIs. Topspeed 378 mph, high (over 40k) ceiling, MVR slightly reduced again, otherwise as Ic. Maybe Service Rating 2?
Ki-81-II KAIb - 4/45. As KAIa, but slightly better in all aspects. Maybe unneeded if KAIa has SR1 from the beginning.

Looks pretty much as Frank, with minor differences.

After this plane Nakajima will go straight for a heavy, high-speed, high-altitude interceptor, hopefully rolling it out sometime in 1945, due to being less loaded with distinct projects. I think Ki-87, RL plane designed to these specs, should have been in the game instead of Ki-94-II, as the former reached the stage of (somewhat) flyable prototype, unlike the latter. Ki-87 can't exist in this alternative, though, as engine design is handled to Mitsubishi. I need to think how its equivalent might look like.

[John 3rd]

FatR: LIKE the thinking and rationale with your development line for the Army. Seems to fairly reasonable and begins a decent progression in upgrades for the planes.

I additionally like the ships detailed above and the ship art. Do you have a final set of specific art needs?

What are you thinking along the Naval Air side for fighter development? Are we keeping the Zero development line from RA or doing something different?

[FatR]

As about naval side... A6M doesn't use Sakae ever, so changes from RA are unevitable.

Another note on armament: after re-reading things, I'm back to thinking, that despite the black sheep calibre, what we did in RA, making Ho-103 the standard air HMG for both services, instead of ever using Type 3 13.2, was correct. So, assuming even better interservice cooperation in this alternative, we probably should continue to do so.

What I see:

A6M1a - available at the start at ground units. Speed around 312 mph (Allies will get a bit of a break at the beginning), otherwise as RL A6M2. Uses Ha-31 engine.

A6M2a - available at the start on carriers and is in production. Speed around 335 mph, normal range 6/9. Both of these planes are basically equivalent to A6M2 with Ha-31 engines, with M2a carrying its 1941 version.

A6M2b - 5/42, wings and fuel tanks configuration of RL A6M3a (I don't feel very comfortable using that superior configuration on the model produced at the start), normal range 7/10, slight improvement over A6M2a overall.

A6M3 - 1/43, the first model using Ha-33. Speed 358 mph. Greater fuel consumption by a more powerful engine leads to normal range 5/8. Added protection (bulletproof glass + armored seat) and strengthened wings lead to Durability 27. Higher ceiling. All-wing armament, including 2x12.7 Ho-103 (no place in fuselage anymore). Service rating 2. Can carry a 250-kg bomb.

A note here - IRL, necessity of increasing speed without changing the engine led to shortening of the wings on A6M5/Model 52 and successive models, which detrimentally affected maneurability and range, compared to A6M3a/Model 22. This doesn't happen here. Indeed, I think this was something that needed not happen in Scen 70 (but I missed this then). So MVR stays high. Range likely not, as a more powerful engine eats more fuel.

A6M3b - 7/43, the improved model, with more polished aerodynamics and increased engine reliability. As A6M3, but topspeed 362 mph. MVR slightly increases. Under-wing drop tanks are added, raising normal range to 5/9. SR1.

Another note - even assuming a better work of attaching Kinsei engine to Zero's airframe than on A6M8, due to having more time to do it, I'm reluctant to assign speeds comparable to what I propose for Ki-81 to the relatively obsolete Zero airframe.

A6M3c - 1/44. Fuel tank protection is added, so Armor 1. Can carry a 500-kg bomb. Speed drops to 355 mph, MVR back to A6M3 level.

A6M6 (I want models to have different designations than major historical models, whenever possible) - 12/44. A deep modernization of Zero for the final defensive battles. Uses Ha-33 engine with a turbosupercharger for high-altitude interception. Armament of 4 Ho-5 cannons in the wings. Topspeed 360 mph, high ceiling. Not carrier-capable.


Horikoshi's team starts their work on A7M earlier and has more time to concentrate on it, like in Scen 70, so, like Scen 70, A7M is available around 10/44. Which, to be honest, is still way too late to change anything (although serious acceleration effort can probably push it forward to mid-1944, where it still can make a difference).


I'll probably post the ideas related to lesser fighter types (Ki-61 and N1K-J tomorrow). Any objections so far? I'm rather afraid of straying too far into fantasyland if left unchecked.

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
I additionally like the ships detailed above and the ship art. Do you have a final set of specific art needs?

We'll need a bit more art for escorts and auxilaries. I just need to find something close enough to their supposed looks...

[kfsgo]

I put up a first draft Niitaka CB, based on JuanG's #539 (I think - can't remember, but it was one of his); let me know what you think. Will continue fiddling with it in any case...drawing onto a ship background is always a lot more awkward than drawing onto the transparency as you get contrast issues as seen around the DP turrets at present.

I have a more or less 'done' Chinese OOB at Div. scale; at this point I really need to look at the accounting side of it, so it probably looks nothing like the final product, but I'll try and put up a draft scenario that people can have a look at and comment on tonight or tomorrow.

[FatR]

So, secondary early-mid-war fighter types.

Ki-61

Well, Ki-61 is a red-headed stepchild among IJAAF fighters in stock. I'm building a bit of them in my games just because (well, and Scen 70 makes the final model somewhat useful), but they really have very little to no, depending on how the opponent plays, redeeming features next to Tojo. And in this mod, if my proposal above is accepted, Ki-61 has to compete with Ki-81, which is available slightly later, has comparable protection and armament right out of the gate, while enjoying good range and better reliability. So, something must be done about it. A few ideas:

1)If we go with the assumption that Kawasaki and Aichi pool their brainpower in the task of copying DB-601, AND succeed in improving reliability of the resulting engine (which is a very favorable assumption, considering that the main problem was in mass production and ground service), we can bring Ki-61 earlier (IRL deliveries of production planes started in August of 1942, although service trials took the rest of 1942) and with SR 2.
2)If we assume that they did not succeed in that, we still can assume that the engine at least was available slightly earlier, and make Ki-61-Ia available around 6/42, with appropriate acceleration to the following models; early enough to make it worth considering.
3)Finally, we can just eliminate the plane altogether, as a trap option. I don't like that, though, as options are player's friends.



N1K-J

This plane is available too early in the game, IMO. Production of N1K1-J did technically start in July 1943, but deliveries were so slow, that it only saw combat on Philippines at the first time, by which time only about 300 planes were made. This does not apply to N1K2-J - this plane entered production in July 1944 (replaicing its precedessor with similar slowness), and is available on 44/11. It is also another Jap plane which speed is consistently underrated in AE and in modern sources in general (wartime American estimates credited N1K1-J with 407-408 mph, which fits well with pilots' evaluations, which placed George as equal or better of Hellcat, but below Mustang/Thunderbolt). On the negative side, I was surprised to learn, that, even though AE gives George Armor 1, it actually did not have an armored pilot seat - explains huge pilot losses in battles of 343 Kokutai and elsewhere, and is simply mind-blowing, considering that on the IJAAF side even Oscars had this much protection by second half of 1943.

Now, Kasei MK4-R engine, used on Jacks IRL, and one that will be used on Georges here, developed 190-170 hps less than Homare 21, but was 50 kg lighter and in general Kasei was more reliable. So Shiden's specs are bound to be somewhat lower in this alternative, but not much lower -10-15 mph of speed, -20 maybe, if we decide that whomever was responsible for denying the universally accepted level of protection to a new plane stops being retarded. Higher for Shiden Kai, as development of Kasei continued up until the end of the war. Ceiling will be lower, but only because ceiling attributed to N1K1-J by AE doesn't exactly reflect its RL high-altitude abilities. I see two interesting possibilities here:

1)Make Shiden available around 7/43. No sooner, because normally this date is too early. Then go forward with the model lineup closely approximating RL one. It will have SR 2 and stats as described above.
2)Navy, seeing that they already have a more satisfying form of Zero in this alternative, sends Kawanishi to rework their plane into a form more suitable for frontline conditions after seeing the prototype. Works goes faster thanks to less problems with the engine and no hassle with transferring N1K1-J (which was supposed to be only a stopgap model, but ended up produced in greater numbers than Shiden Kai) into production. The lineup starts with Shiden Kai equivalent, available 4-5/44.

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: kfsgo

I put up a first draft Niitaka CB, based on JuanG's #539 (I think - can't remember, but it was one of his); let me know what you think.

I like it.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: FatR

So, secondary early-mid-war fighter types.

Ki-61

Well, Ki-61 is a red-headed stepchild among IJAAF fighters in stock. I'm building a bit of them in my games just because (well, and Scen 70 makes the final model somewhat useful), but they really have very little to no, depending on how the opponent plays, redeeming features next to Tojo. And in this mod, if my proposal above is accepted, Ki-61 has to compete with Ki-81, which is available slightly later, has comparable protection and armament right out of the gate, while enjoying good range and better reliability. So, something must be done about it. A few ideas:

1)If we go with the assumption that Kawasaki and Aichi pool their brainpower in the task of copying DB-601, AND succeed in improving reliability of the resulting engine (which is a very favorable assumption, considering that the main problem was in mass production and ground service), we can bring Ki-61 earlier (IRL deliveries of production planes started in August of 1942, although service trials took the rest of 1942) and with SR 2.
2)If we assume that they did not succeed in that, we still can assume that the engine at least was available slightly earlier, and make Ki-61-Ia available around 6/42, with appropriate acceleration to the following models; early enough to make it worth considering.
3)Finally, we can just eliminate the plane altogether, as a trap option. I don't like that, though, as options are player's friends.



N1K-J

This plane is available too early in the game, IMO. Production of N1K1-J did technically start in July 1943, but deliveries were so slow, that it only saw combat on Philippines at the first time, by which time only about 300 planes were made. This does not apply to N1K2-J - this plane entered production in July 1944 (replaicing its precedessor with similar slowness), and is available on 44/11. It is also another Jap plane which speed is consistently underrated in AE and in modern sources in general (wartime American estimates credited N1K1-J with 407-408 mph, which fits well with pilots' evaluations, which placed George as equal or better of Hellcat, but below Mustang/Thunderbolt). On the negative side, I was surprised to learn, that, even though AE gives George Armor 1, it actually did not have an armored pilot seat - explains huge pilot losses in battles of 343 Kokutai and elsewhere, and is simply mind-blowing, considering that on the IJAAF side even Oscars had this much protection by second half of 1943.

Now, Kasei MK4-R engine, used on Jacks IRL, and one that will be used on Georges here, developed 190-170 hps less than Homare 21, but was 50 kg lighter and in general Kasei was more reliable. So Shiden's specs are bound to be somewhat lower in this alternative, but not much lower -10-15 mph of speed, -20 maybe, if we decide that whomever was responsible for denying the universally accepted level of protection to a new plane stops being retarded. Higher for Shiden Kai, as development of Kasei continued up until the end of the war. Ceiling will be lower, but only because ceiling attributed to N1K1-J by AE doesn't exactly reflect its RL high-altitude abilities. I see two interesting possibilities here:

1)Make Shiden available around 7/43. No sooner, because normally this date is too early. Then go forward with the model lineup closely approximating RL one. It will have SR 2 and stats as described above.
2)Navy, seeing that they already have a more satisfying form of Zero in this alternative, sends Kawanishi to rework their plane into a form more suitable for frontline conditions after seeing the prototype. Works goes faster thanks to less problems with the engine and no hassle with transferring N1K1-J (which was supposed to be only a stopgap model, but ended up produced in greater numbers than Shiden Kai) into production. The lineup starts with Shiden Kai equivalent, available 4-5/44.

My Votes:
1. Ki-61--Option Two. Allows for choice by the player.
2. NIK-J--Option One. Seems more appropriate to me.

What do we do for CV-Based Fighters?

[oldman45]

I might be reading more into this than there is, but if the A/C are improving earlier, the Allies are going to bring out their toys (read that plane upgrades) faster as the urgency increases. With the better pilots that the Japanese player can make added to the better planes, the Allies will need to combat that some how.

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I might be reading more into this than there is, but if the A/C are improving earlier, the Allies are going to bring out their toys (read that plane upgrades) faster as the urgency increases. With the better pilots that the Japanese player can make added to the better planes, the Allies will need to combat that some how.

If you pay attention, in 1941-42 Japanese fighter aircraft actually are a bit worse in the current proposal. Instead of Tojo JFBs will have high-SR Tony, Zeros will have either inferior speed or inferior range to vanilla A6M2. Only in 1943 and later improvements will be felt, and even then, nothing will be nearly as good as Allied top performers.

Anyway, I'm not going into a detailed study of Allied planes to see which of them could reasonably be accelerated. I think, that increasing production numbers (in addition to the option of expanding on-map production) is warranted, though.

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
My Votes:
1. Ki-61--Option Two. Allows for choice by the player.
2. NIK-J--Option One. Seems more appropriate to me.

What do we do for CV-Based Fighters?

OK, and as about CV-based fighters - all Zeros, except the last model, A7M2, and, I think, we can include a carrier-capable George model again.

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: FatR
Anyway, I'm not going into a detailed study of Allied planes to see which of them could reasonably be accelerated. I think, that increasing production numbers (in addition to the option of expanding on-map production) is warranted, though.

I'd be happy to, after you've finalised what the plan is for the Japanese - the reorientation of the war in the Mediterranean and the need to supply the French is going to throw some spanners into the works for everyone, at the very least.

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: kfsgo

I'd be happy to, after you've finalised what the plan is for the Japanese - the reorientation of the war in the Mediterranean and the need to supply the French is going to throw some spanners into the works for everyone, at the very least.

OK, thanks.


Fighter updates for today.

You can note from above that I only started sticking Mitsubishi Kinsei everywhere past the historical date of availability of Kinsei 62 engine, which produced 1500 hps and more. Actually, looking through Kinsei's lineup, earlier versions could have been used to power A6M2.

Kinsei 44 (1070 hps on takeoff) powered Vals and was available for production around 1940
Kinsei 51 (1280 hps) was installed on G3M3 and H6K5, therefore available from mid-1942

By comparison, Sakae 12 (A6M2) produced 925 hps and Sakae 21 (almost every Zero produced thereafter) only 1130 hps. No version of Zuisei produced more than 1080 hps. The main disadvantage of Kinsei (besides slightly greater weight) is bigger radius, which increased drag and apparently precluded installation of nose weapons on Zero. Jiro Horikoshi apparently repeatedly asked to be allowed to use it on A6M, but as we know this was only greenlighted very late in the war.

So, in this light, proposal for early Zeros should look like this:

A6M2a (Kinsei 44) - the initial model, normal range 6/9, all-wing armament.

A6M2b (Kinsei 51) - 6/42, range 7/10 due to more fuel tanks, speed 344 mph.

Allies will benefit from reduction in Japanese player long-range attack capabilities early in the war, though. IIRC, Manila now will not be reachable by fighters from Takao.


Returning to secondary types, and expanding the variants you liked, John:

Ki-61-Ia - 6/42
Ki-61-Ib - 1/43
Ki-61-Ic - 6/43 (as Id, but with 4x12.7 armament, installed as a stopgap measure, instead of German cannons - we have less long-ranged subs in this alternative, so less trips to Germany)
Ki-61-Id - 10/43
Ki-61-II KAIa - 4/44 (as in Scen 70 with 4x20 armament)

After that we can go to Ki-61-II KAIb, with the same Ha-140 engine, except probably a bit more polished, or, as IRL, to Ki-100s. On one hand there is less incentive to build latter (without the Kawasaki engine plant being bombed, at least), because Ki-81 is already using Kinsei engines, on another, great success of Kinsei might motivate an attempt to convert Ki-61 line to it, after Ha-140 proves extremely unreliable. Not sure what to pick.

Also, I believe all Ki-61 models have too low range in the game, will try to look into that.



As about N1K-J:

N1K1-J - 7/43, topspeed 387 mph, SR 2, ceiling about 37.5k.
N1K2-J - 9/44, topspeed 396 mph, SR 1, ceiling about 38k.
N1K3-J - 1/45, a high-altitude interceptor with the latest Kasei engine packing a three-stage supercharger, ceiling above 40k.
N1K4-A - 4/45, a carrier-capable version, stats like N1K2, maybe slightly lower. Really only relevant if you seriously accelerate it...
N1K5-J - 12/45. A Ha-43-powered high-altitude model. Speed increase is not very big.

We'll need new art for them, with nose parts like those on N1K Rex.

[FatR]

And some thoughts on late-war wunderwafles:

Kawasaki Ki-64: first flight in December 1943, tests abandoned after an engine fire IRL. Plusses - available relatively early. Minuses - unreliable engines, combined with new and complex features. Probably unsuitable for production.

Nakajima Ki-87: first flight in April 1945, tests abandoned due to both the engine and the undercarriage being practically unusable and impossible to fix in the existing war situation IRL. Possible equivalent in this alternative can be powered by Mitsubishi Ha-42, 18-cylinder derivative of Mitshubishi Kasei engine, achieving comparable projected performance. The main minus - production before late 1945 is hardly plausible, even if Nakajima starts to work on it earlier.

Tachikawa Ki-94-II: a prototype completed, but no test flights. Developers might be right, considering it a more probable candidate for production than Ki-87, but with no tests, this can't be confirmed.

Tachikawa Ki-94-I:
http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/tachikawa_ki-94.php
Yeah, that's an interesting idea (danger to the bailing pilot nonwithstanding). Powered by 2xMitsubishi Ha-43. The problem is, it might well have been axed for a good reason, even though Tachikawa seems to have faced unfair competition (i.e., performance requirements relaxed for the Nakajima's Ki-87 project, but not for them). Its performance is speculative as well.


Jets.

Nakajima Kikka and Nakajima Ki-201
The former is far more suited for the condition of late-war Japanese industry, and actually reached the flyable prototype stage. The latter had better specs. What about developing a fighter version of of the former, which was actually done?

J8M
Yeah, this plane is useless IRL and in AE, and should be quietly forgotten. I wonder why Army and Navy joined in approving this failure. I understand that it was super simple and easy to build compared to conventional airplanes, but they chose a very wrong thing to abandon the usual approach of "quality first" for. I guess desperation leads to grasping at straws. But how about working together on Kikka, instead (early turbojets also were simpler and more primitive than late-WWII radial engines)? Not that it would have made any difference IRL, but it might in the game.

[John 3rd]

This sort of technical discussion is beyond my pay grade but I am enjoying it. It appears to be quite well thought out.

[FatR]

I really cannot say that I'm bringing some arcane knowledge to the table. Well, unless you count information from j.aircraft.org as such[:)]. I do hope to buy
"Japanese Secret Projects Experimental Aircraft of the IJA and IJN 1939-1945" by E.M Dyer before returning to late-war Japanese planes, but at the moment I'm not sure when I'll be able to afford ordering new books...

[John 3rd]

I don't have that book and might look for it.

[oldman45]

Thanks for the reply Fatr, that makes sense and it does appear I was reading more into things.

[John 3rd]

ALWAYS chime in Oldman. You are much valued within the RA and Perfect War Mod discussions!

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: FatR


As about N1K-J:

N1K1-J - 7/43, topspeed 387 mph, SR 2, ceiling about 37.5k.
N1K2-J - 9/44, topspeed 396 mph, SR 1, ceiling about 38k.
N1K3-J - 1/45, a high-altitude interceptor with the latest Kasei engine packing a three-stage supercharger, ceiling above 40k.
N1K4-A - 4/45, a carrier-capable version, stats like N1K2, maybe slightly lower. Really only relevant if you seriously accelerate it...
N1K5-J - 12/45. A Ha-43-powered high-altitude model. Speed increase is not very big.

We'll need new art for them, with nose parts like those on N1K Rex.

Hmm. I wonder at that, the early ones particularly; gaining 25mph on 10% less power than normal seems very optimistic. My understanding is that the transition from floatplane to a regular fighter left the K1 particularly with a lot of 'baggage' - an awkward mid-fuselage wing and oversized landing gear structure, lots of heavy strengthening in unnecessary places, draggy bolt-ons like podded guns (two of the 20mms) and an external oil cooler...thing ain't Cinderella, that's for sure. What it has going for it is excellent maneuverability relative to the competition, particularly at medium to high speeds.

To be honest, I'd actually rate the (stock) N1K1 as a slightly better aircraft than the (stock) F6F-3; looking at the aircraft's in-game performance in a vacuum, what I've tended to find given a level playing field (equal numbers, equal altitudes, equal pilots, equal radar, equal missions etc) is that you tend to come out of that sort of thing with about 1.1-1.4 Hellcats lost for every George lost, with worse performances from the Hellcats as altitudes decrease (which makes sense, considering the increasing maneuverability disparity as you go down in altitude - 27 v 17 at 20k versus 17 v 14 at 35k); that the Japanese are often not operating on a level playing field by the time these sorts of matchups come about is worth noting, but doesn't really take away from the fact that the aircraft itself is 'equal or better' when matched up to the Hellcat.