The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[Canoerebel]

Several single fire-bombing raids resulted in considerably more casualties than either of the atomic bombs inflicted.  War is hell.  End it as quickly as possible.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

Drop da bomb hun.

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Oh...got it...interesting....but i think that as he can move units from Aika to Aomori and vice versa (both are contested hexes), the supply should follow the same rule...and that's where i was mistaken...my whole plan was a mistake based on this erroneus assumption...

However i'll be very interested in the outcome of your tests! Thanks a lot!!!

Ok. Yes. I thought you'd be right - units can move between the hexes, so surely supply behaves the same way, right?

Turns out it sort of doesn't exactly. Czech this out:



September 15th, Hirosaki had 110,000t of supplies. A week of bombing and bombardments (caveat: I'm using the Downfall scenario, so have the entire US navy and about 2000 bombers going in every day - you will not get that sort of rate, in all probability) have shaved that much off - supply will not move up from the rest of Honshu no matter what I do - even dragging a huge reserve up to Akita and releasing it there will not get any into Hirosaki.

Problem: it WILL draw from Ominato - and Ominato, unlike Hirosaki, will draw from the rest of Honshu. I guess the fact of not having enemy troops there ticks a box somewhere.

So - you could starve Hirosaki (or Ominato, but much harder due to fixed coast defences) out, given a few months and an airtight sea blockade. You would need to land a whole other force at Ominato, though - which I completely appreciate is not trivial.

e: and that's not factoring in rotating units in and out, though it wouldn't help base supply particularly. It's not a good option, but there it is...

[GreyJoy]

mmmm....that's very very interesting...the problem is first Ominato, as you pointed out,...there are a lot of fixed defences there and i don't have any prepped unit for it...secondly...he could easily move in 500,000 men to Aomori...but the idea isn't that bad... so supplies doesn't flow between 2 occuppied hexes...
But then again...terrain could be a problem...forts too....
 
I will think about it....
 
Anyone?

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: kfsgo

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Oh...got it...interesting....but i think that as he can move units from Aika to Aomori and vice versa (both are contested hexes), the supply should follow the same rule...and that's where i was mistaken...my whole plan was a mistake based on this erroneus assumption...

However i'll be very interested in the outcome of your tests! Thanks a lot!!!

Ok. Yes. I thought you'd be right - units can move between the hexes, so surely supply behaves the same way, right?

Turns out it sort of doesn't exactly. Czech this out:



September 15th, Hirosaki had 110,000t of supplies. A week of bombing and bombardments (caveat: I'm using the Downfall scenario, so have the entire US navy and about 2000 bombers going in every day - you will not get that sort of rate, in all probability) have shaved that much off - supply will not move up from the rest of Honshu no matter what I do - even dragging a huge reserve up to Akita and releasing it there will not get any into Hirosaki.

Problem: it WILL draw from Ominato - and Ominato, unlike Hirosaki, will draw from the rest of Honshu. I guess the fact of not having enemy troops there ticks a box somewhere.

So - you could starve Hirosaki (or Ominato, but much harder due to fixed coast defences) out, given a few months and an airtight sea blockade. You would need to land a whole other force at Ominato, though - which I completely appreciate is not trivial.

e: and that's not factoring in rotating units in and out, though it wouldn't help base supply particularly. It's not a good option, but there it is...

kfsgo could you send me the save file with that test scenario please?

[kfsgo]

It's just Downfall with a couple of units edited in (I made four 'US Army Corps' to save on hassle; the reason I say I know attacking Ominato isn't trivial is that I sent one of them to attack it with 0 prep just to see what'd happen...turns out what happens is 80,000 casualties and a mass surrender of the survivors). I'll do an easy-access version in a bit that you can mess around with; should take about an hour or so, I guess.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Guys.... 10.01.1944.... japan is already producing the Shidens.... faster than any allied plane...and a bomber killer with its 30mm cannons...

The strat bombing campaign is officially over....[:o]

350 of these beasts are produced monthly....

OH well it's your funeral...and a huge mistake if you follow your own advice.

[kfsgo]

Ok, here you go.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1Hrlf ... I0ODRkMzFj

Slightly altered from the version I was using with a lot more stuff pre-positioned. You will still have to move some ships, units etc around because...well, because it's past midnight and I'd like to get some sleep today. Most stuff is at Manila, Guam, Hawaii, Okinawa as per regular Downfall. I suggest ordering all air units on both sides everywhere to stand down while you move stuff around.

[GreyJoy]

That's so kind of you! Thanks!
 
Tomorrow i'll do some tests....with 100% prepped units landing at Ominato...let's see if an hex can be starved out!
 
Thanks a lot...again...
 
Turns have flown a lot today...we moved to 10th october...nothing happened much...lots of naval bombing with light results...nothing more...still working on a plan...
 
night gents...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Guys.... 10.01.1944.... japan is already producing the Shidens.... faster than any allied plane...and a bomber killer with its 30mm cannons...

The strat bombing campaign is officially over....[:o]

350 of these beasts are produced monthly....

OH well it's your funeral...and a huge mistake if you follow your own advice.

[X(]

Could you elaborate? I don't understand what you mean

Thx

[Chickenboy]

GreyJoy,

I would venture that he is referring to the ending of your Strat bombing campaign instead of taking this opportunity to flatten those Shinden factories while you have the chance.

For the record, I agree with him.

[jeffk3510]

^ Dito

[aoffen]

Are we seeing the results of invading Japan without first having strangled it for 6 months economically? As I understand it, the Japanese merchant marine is still active and KB still exists.

Maybe Greyjoy needs to spend 6 months hunkering down in the beachheads and taking care of that side of business. Flood the beach heads with supply, redeploy the navy to the convoy routes from the south, take out the remnants of the IJN if they sortie, cut off the oil and resources and pound aircraft factories from the air and sea. Then see what happens in the air and on the ground after that. Sounds like fun actually.

Regards
Andrew

[JeffroK]

GJ needs to capture at least one of the bases, this should be first priority as it makes the others more stable.  Pick the weakest and concentrate on it.  Smash it and dont be afraid as long as you are destroying his units.

Then start pressuring other regions, you might be able to pick up some cheap land, AFTER seriously checking out whats there.
Smack him around a bit, see what happens. Every Division not in Nthn Honshu is a victory for you.
Get some long range recon looking for his shipping, even the threat might see a Sentai or two at Truk instead of Niigata,
Show some SCTF out there, you might draw a reaction, or get some cheap victories in the interim.

Get some false leads out there, threats towards Korea, Okinawa, Iwo Jima etc, draw his attention away from the main front.

Dont think twice about using the ABomb, checkout what the best type of target is, Factories, Manpower etc. be ready to use it.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

GreyJoy,

I would venture that he is referring to the ending of your Strat bombing campaign instead of taking this opportunity to flatten those Shinden factories while you have the chance.

For the record, I agree with him.

Which chance i have now? I don't have the numbers to start back a strat bombing campaign...a couple of raids and my pools will be drained back to zero again...

I really don't see how could i overcome those thousands fighters with the current modified patch

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Guys.... 10.01.1944.... japan is already producing the Shidens.... faster than any allied plane...and a bomber killer with its 30mm cannons...

The strat bombing campaign is officially over....[:o]

350 of these beasts are produced monthly....

when everything goes off the line then you can as well do that by starting a night bombing offensive. I hate night bombing and how it is modelled in the game but why should one side move the game to it's limit with the other one stuck with real life reinforcements? Don't bomb his industry at night but his AIRFIELDS! Use 400 4E for night bombing a stacked airfield that got hundreds of fighters and you will kill dozens of them every day. Keeps him from putting 700 fighters on one field and you kill lots of them every day for free. He can do the same but his bombers mostly turn back when met by your fighters, they carry far less bombs and you should be able to build up your bases to flak traps the world has never seen before.

I don't like anything of the above but how do you want to get this on track otherwise with super advanced IJ aircraft in 10/44.

[GreyJoy]

Unfortunately we have strict HRs that limits night bombing to 10k feet and to 50 max bombers during the full moon nights.... Not a viable option...

[cwDeici]

ORIGINAL: princep01

Ser Greyjoy.....perhaps you should seek out whatever bar the submariners favor. After slaying those pestilence E-type AWS vessels, I am sure you'd be most welcome and would not have to buy a beer to get quite drunk in their company. Now that you have sprung your neat trap, you may want to see if it draws a response and set a trap for the responders (say a cruiser force wanting to leap upon your DDs).

I would say that the game far overrates the ability of the Japanese E types. The US lost 52 submarines in WW2 in the Pacific (if memory serves). I seem to recall that a majority of these were lost to AC. While the Japanese late war ASW improved and the E-types proved better than fleet DDs at ASW, I rather doubt that they were as deadly as depicted in the game.

Nemo once mentioned in response to my complaining and whining about them that it had something to do with game code, but I forget the details. Perhaps if he sees this, he might again enlighten us.

princepBolton

Hell yeah!

And great to hear you're meeting Rader.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

GJ needs to capture at least one of the bases, this should be first priority as it makes the others more stable.  Pick the weakest and concentrate on it.  Smash it and dont be afraid as long as you are destroying his units.

Easier said than done my friend... Those pesky bases have 400,000 men each, with a HUGE amount of CD guns and AA guns, that make them almost untouchable for my bombers and my BBs can bomb them only by 30k yards (so very little damage)...

Today i'll test what Kfgo has suggested and see what happens...

[veji1]

Honestly GJ, having to face Shindens and Sams in mid 44 would be a gamebreaker for me, and I am a JFB. Add that to the fixed allied production and the straightjacking HRs you are using and you are really at a disadvantage... 350 Shindens a month in octobre 44 ? I would just tell Rader that under those circumstances he cannot force you to curtail your 4E use with all those HRs... But than again, you are good sports so good on you and keep on playing.