The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

[GreyJoy]

Guys, for what concerns the R&D capabilities, i have no problem about it. I mean, this is scen2, which is a what if scenario by definition.
If Rader had the resources to speed up his R&D process it was obviously my fault not to prevent him from aquiring all that ground (China and India) that let him support his industrial capabilities...
And, however, deep in my heart i'm an axis fanboy and i've always loved those SCI-FI novels where Germany counters the allied landings with thousands of Me-262 and Me-163...or destroys NY with the AMERIKA BOMBER[&o] 
 
....so that's not a problem...it will be challenging...we're back in 1942 with P-40s facing Tojos...it's more or less the same. We've lived once to tell that tale...we'll live once more[;)]
 
I've asked Rader what he thinks about the night bombing rule...let's see! Thanks for pointing it out!
 
Jeff...i'm seriously thinking about what to do...i'm taking some hours of break in order to decide what to do...i'll do some more testing with Ksfgo's scenario but from what i've seen so far i have not many hopes...
 
Thank you all for your support guys!!!!!
 
 

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin



If I remember right their game had a bug which made this happen and is solved now. R&D facory contributed points if repaired or not.

According to n1849123 this is no bug but has always been possible if you know how to. And I have not heard about it being changed, of course, I may not have heard everything.

If I am reading the question correctly ... According to Michealm this was a bug and is fixed ..

[1108q4]
Fixed Restored fully repaired factory needed before R&D starts [MEM]

IIRC Damian found a way to still do it and this had nothing to do with non repaired factories. I could be wrong but that was my last info.

[GreyJoy]

Well, even if it was a bug, Rader has invested a lot in this feature and it would be unfair to stop him now that he finally got his toys...i'd be salivating if i was him waiting for the first Ki-201 to come out...
 
So, probably the best way to deal with bugs (if ever it's a bug) is just keep on going on.
 
I'm just concerned about what Ksfgo said about half of my B-29s arriving withour defensive armament [:(]...so we probably need to re-think our HR about night bombing....let's see what Rader thinks about it. I trust his judgement

[beppi]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Well, even if it was a bug, Rader has invested a lot in this feature and it would be unfair to stop him now that he finally got his toys...i'd be salivating if i was him waiting for the first Ki-201 to come out...

So, probably the best way to deal with bugs (if ever it's a bug) is just keep on going on.

I'm just concerned about what Ksfgo said about half of my B-29s arriving withour defensive armament [:(]...so we probably need to re-think our HR about night bombing....let's see what Rader thinks about it. I trust his judgement

You should at least negotiate a HR exception for the designated night bombing B-29. Otherwise you could just scrap them. Against heavy armed late war fighters even the normal B-29 versions are quite easy shot down. The ones without defensive armament will just be dead meat. Basically the only way to use them would be in combination with large amounts of other bombers which might provide a little defensive (and box) protection. But even then they will be very weak.

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Well, even if it was a bug, Rader has invested a lot in this feature and it would be unfair to stop him now that he finally got his toys...i'd be salivating if i was him waiting for the first Ki-201 to come out...

So, probably the best way to deal with bugs (if ever it's a bug) is just keep on going on.

I'm just concerned about what Ksfgo said about half of my B-29s arriving withour defensive armament [:(]...so we probably need to re-think our HR about night bombing....let's see what Rader thinks about it. I trust his judgement

Won't comment on the fighter acceleration thing as it'd be pretty rude.

If it's any consolation, the B-29B do carry almost twice the bombload of the earlier models in exchange for all the guns...they're just not really daylight aircraft. A similar sort of situation can be seen with the Wellington - they were used more or less exclusively for night bombing (as were RAF Liberators until quite late), and the replacement rate is sufficient to do that but not to operate in daylight, which causes a lot of stress when players do and they get intercepted by anything more than a solitary Nate, heh.

[hades1001]

I believe the numbers of Planes you are getting right now, both fighters and bombers, won't be even close to enough for you future strat bombing.

I heard that if you jump onto Korea right now, you can trigger Soviet join the war. And if it's confirmed, I suggest you drag THE GREAT SOVIET RED ARMY into war ASAP[:D]

[GreyJoy]

Rader proposed a rule that says, more or less: NightType bombers can city bomb (only manpower) from 20k feet at night without any limitations.
 
It sounds pretty fair to me...what do you think?
 
In fact, Rader's concerns about the effectiveness of night bombing (especially over AFs) are probably correct.... I've seen in Nemo's AAR that his betties were able to keep closed an allied AF at night flying at 100ft....
 
I'll try to do some tests tonight.... now i gotta go back to work [:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]

[hades1001]

I believe the night bombing is pretty broken in this game.

But what exact the good does bombing his man power do?

[Dan Nichols]

NO, not at all fair.

[String]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

I believe the night bombing is pretty broken in this game.

But what exact the good does bombing his man power do?

I'd say 10k feet, as they did so historically and atleast for B-29B's low level night bombing was one of their design principles iirc.

[hades1001]

Can anyone confirm that you can trigger Soviet by landing at Korea? Please

[EUBanana]

It's probably fair enough at 20k feet in terms of historical results, night bombing is an order of magnitude too effective atm - in fact strategic bombing in general is really.

I think firebombing relies less on accuracy and more on bombload too, though I've never tried it at night. If so though maybe its hard to miss a city, even at night.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Can anyone confirm that you can trigger Soviet by landing at Korea? Please

AFAIK no...you need to reduce the AV of Manchukuko garrison below 8000...which isn't exactly an easy task...

[GreyJoy]

However i'll do some tests with the downfall scenario using 200 B-29s at 20k feet on city night bombing and see how it goes....

[hades1001]

And actually, Japs can do do this without conquering India and China. The real limitation for Japs to expand its HI is Oil/Fuel. The oil/fuel on the map is only enough for Japs homeland HI. My opponent said that conquering India don't help much his HI anyway because of the fuel problem. He might get some extra supply from the resources center but that's it. In scen2 Japs never worry about supplies but only fuel.

So, no matter it's a bug or whatever, 14 months ahead of historical date is not some thing reasonable. No matter how much resources Japs have put on to research.

I would like to propose a cap of how many months one type of plane can be accelerated for R&D in the game.

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Guys, for what concerns the R&D capabilities, i have no problem about it. I mean, this is scen2, which is a what if scenario by definition.
If Rader had the resources to speed up his R&D process it was obviously my fault not to prevent him from aquiring all that ground (China and India) that let him support his industrial capabilities...
And, however, deep in my heart i'm an axis fanboy and i've always loved those SCI-FI novels where Germany counters the allied landings with thousands of Me-262 and Me-163...or destroys NY with the AMERIKA BOMBER[&o] 

....so that's not a problem...it will be challenging...we're back in 1942 with P-40s facing Tojos...it's more or less the same. We've lived once to tell that tale...we'll live once more[;)]

I've asked Rader what he thinks about the night bombing rule...let's see! Thanks for pointing it out!

Jeff...i'm seriously thinking about what to do...i'm taking some hours of break in order to decide what to do...i'll do some more testing with Ksfgo's scenario but from what i've seen so far i have not many hopes...

Thank you all for your support guys!!!!!

[kfsgo]

ORIGINAL: hades1001

I believe the night bombing is pretty broken in this game.

But what exact the good does bombing his man power do?

Hits on manpower start fires, which tend to then go on and burn out other industries.

Restriction to use of night bombers specifically is probably "reasonable", with the caveat that defining a "night bomber" is dodgy; the great advantage in terms of accuracy (ie making it realistically effective at all in anything other than ideal conditions with extra-special crews) is bombing by radar, which is pretty universal on B-29 as far as I'm aware; at the very least Lancaster, Lincoln, UK Liberator, B-32, and at least some late-model B-17 and US & Australian Liberator would be similarly equipped.

Restriction to bombing manpower is reasonable - night precision bombing was attempted with the B-29 force but was essentially not a success - number of aircraft hitting specific targets was negligible, so it was called off. Probably you could get slightly better results going after airfields, but not by much.

I would personally say 10kft is more sensible as a restriction for B-29B (usual operating altitudes seem to have varied between 5k-15k); whatever the game does or doesn't do to airfields at night, the area bombing was as accurate as it needed to be (ie within a mile or so of the aiming point - cities, remember) and extremely effective - the first raid burnt out a quarter of Tokyo with 200 or so aircraft. Lancaster and Lincoln, if you make it that far, probably similar. For the other radar bombers I'd say 15k or even 20 if pushed - the B-29 force will get gadget priority.

[hades1001]

I think the problem I have with night bombing is that when Japs try to a night fighter defense, they were shot down by 4E in a number of pretty unreasonable. I had experience of a few dozen 4E doing night bombing and they shot down a whole Sentai of Tojo in one night. I know the Tojo is not designed for night fighting but the number is still weird to me. So I agreed with my Jap opponent we suspend all night bombing until its tuned or fixed.

I hope your future experience will provide a chance for us to reopen the night bombing. Just go ahead and bomb the shit of Japs[8D]

[hades1001]

Please share your test result when you are done. I'm looking forward to that result now.

[witpqs]

I'm not a fan of many of the HRs you've agreed to, nor am I a fan of this one either. I suggest tell him you will agree to 10K for this one. Still not good, but better.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Rader proposed a rule that says, more or less: NightType bombers can city bomb (only manpower) from 20k feet at night without any limitations.

It sounds pretty fair to me...what do you think?

In fact, Rader's concerns about the effectiveness of night bombing (especially over AFs) are probably correct.... I've seen in Nemo's AAR that his betties were able to keep closed an allied AF at night flying at 100ft....

I'd allow for reasonable in-game effects of nighttime bombing. Whether that's bombing manpower, airfields, 1 group, 6,000 feet, 10,000 feet, 20,000 feet whatever is an almost irrelevant variable. If night time bombing is overpowered (and I believe, like many, that it is), try to find a workaround that approximates its realtime effectiveness-or lack thereof. Achieve this agreement with partner consensus and move forth.