Il ne passeront pas !

Post descriptions and reports of your brilliant successes and unfortunate defeats here.
hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

ORIGINAL: Raynald

With Wilhelmshaven in British hand, what will happen to the German fleet ?

Maybe the German High Command can elaborate us on this matter ? Perhaps it is still a matter of national security though :0)

If HSF is rebased to Rostock/Stettin it means we will fight directly in the Baltic. Another big reason to hold onto Wilhelmshaven if that is the case.
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hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

ORIGINAL: hjaco

ORIGINAL: Raynald

Constantinople is needed for the Black Sea, not the Baltic I think (but maybe it Hjaco made a typo and thought about the Black Sea).

No Typo Raynauld - i did indeed mean the Baltic, but that won't work either anymore if the description in the patch is correct.

I stand corrected - it is indeed still possible to transfer goodies from Britain to Russia through the Baltic !
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by EUBanana »

All the more reason to fear the Purple Peril then!
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hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

All the more reason to fear the Purple Peril then!

Better do something preemptive against them then [;)]
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by ulver »

Wilhelmshaven
The English are gentlemen – it keeps operating out of Wilhelmshaven.
hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

Right - back to business.

Last entry was strategy phase for May which was wrongly stated as being for March.

The British success at Wilhelmshaven predictably provoked the Hochseeflotte into action. Several massive engagements in the North Sea was reported:

German Bayern (DN) firing on Br St.Vincent (DN) : 4 hits
British Bellerophon (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 3 hits
British St.Vincent (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 2 hits
German Roon (CA) firing on Br Bellerophon (DN) : 1 hits
German Graudenz (CA) firing on Br Bellerophon (DN) : 0 hits
German Koln (CA) firing on Br St.Vincent (DN) : 1 hits
British Bellerophon (DN) firing on Ger Roon (CA) : 2 hits
British St.Vincent (DN) firing on Ger Koln (CA) : 4 hits
German Bayern (DN) firing on Br Iron Duke (DN) : 3 hits
British Iron Duke (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 4 hits
British Q. Elizabeth (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 3 hits
British Minotaur (CA) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 1 hits
British Argyll (CA) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 1 hits
German Roon (CA) firing on Br Royal Oak (DN) : 0 hits
German Graudenz (CA) firing on Br Royal Oak (DN) : 0 hits
German Koln (CA) firing on Br Royal Oak (DN) : 0 hits
British Royal Oak (DN) firing on Ger Graudenz (CA) : 2 hits
German Elsaas (PD) firing on Rus Petropavlovsk (PD) : 1 hits
Russian Petropavlovsk (PD) firing on Ger Elsaas (PD) : 1 hits
Russian Rurik (CA) firing on Ger Elsaas (PD) : 0 hits
German Bayern (DN) firing on Br Q. Elizabeth (DN) : 2 hits
German Roon (CA) firing on Br Iron Duke (DN) : 0 hits
German Graudenz (CA) firing on Br Minotaur (CA) : 1 hits
German Koln (CA) firing on Br Argyll (CA) : 0 hits
German 1st (DD) firing on Br Minotaur (CA) : 0 hits
German 3rd (DD) firing on Br Minotaur (CA) : 0 hits
German 4th (DD) firing on Br Minotaur (CA) : 0 hits
German 6th (DD) firing on Br Argyll (CA) : 0 hits
British Iron Duke (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 3 hits
British Q. Elizabeth (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 3 hits
British Royal Oak (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 3 hits
British Minotaur (CA) firing on Ger Roon (CA) : 0 hits
British Argyll (CA) firing on Ger Graudenz (CA) : 0 hits
German Bayern (DN) firing on Fre Charner (CA) : 3 hits
German Roon (CA) firing on Fre Charner (CA) : 1 hits
German Graudenz (CA) firing on Fre Charner (CA) : 0 hits
German Koln (CA) firing on Fre Charner (CA) : 1 hits
German 1st (DD) firing on Fre 5th (DD) : 0 hits
German 3rd (DD) firing on Fre 3rd (DD) : 0 hits
German 4th (DD) firing on Fre 2nd (DD) : 0 hits
German 6th (DD) firing on Fre 4th (DD) : 0 hits
French Charner (CA) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 1 hits
French 2nd (DD) firing on Ger 4th (DD) : 0 hits
French 3rd (DD) firing on Ger 4th (DD) : 0 hits
French 4th (DD) firing on Ger 4th (DD) : 0 hits
French 5th (DD) firing on Ger 4th (DD) : 0 hits
German Roon (CA) firing on Br Argyll (CA) : 1 hits
German Graudenz (CA) firing on Br Q. Elizabeth (DN) : 0 hits
German Koln (CA) firing on Br Argyll (CA) : 0 hits
German 1st (DD) firing on Br Minotaur (CA) : 0 hits
German 3rd (DD) firing on Br Minotaur (CA) : 0 hits
German 4th (DD) firing on Br Argyll (CA) : 0 hits
German 6th (DD) firing on Br Minotaur (CA) : 0 hits
British Iron Duke (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 4 hits
British Q. Elizabeth (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 3 hits
British Royal Oak (DN) firing on Ger Bayern (DN) : 2 hits
British Minotaur (CA) firing on Ger Roon (CA) : 2 hits
British Argyll (CA) firing on Ger Koln (CA) : 0 hits

This was in the days of no "sunk" report but a staggering 33 hits was reported on the proud dreadnought Bayern [:D]

September 1914 impulse 3

Germany takes Orleans almost encircling the remaining French army in a massive Cannae operation.

Although under blockade Rawlinson orders the heroes of Wilhelmshaven to spread out and link up with the Russians.

September 1914 impulse 2

Kesselschlacht of Paris is now a fact. Life will be slowly squeashed out of the remaining defenders because they are now out of supply and no longer able to regenerate readiness. Paris will fall very soon.

On the other hand Brusilov is fittingly heading the Russian thrust at the gates of Berlin outflanking it. Dresden has fallen.

Next impulse the British elite guard corps will link up with Russia isolating Rostock and Stettin. Leipzig will fall and the inevitable encirclement of Berlin would have begun.
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hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

Sadly the Kaiser was infuriated with not being declared the victor in the 4 battle of Paris which will be explained later and decided to throw in the towel muttering about "against the Geneva convention".

Well i can understand the frustration but the game would anyhow not have continued for long.
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hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

Gosh is this messy now - last entry was off course May 1915.

Wilhelmshaven impulse 3 May 1915

Rawlinson and his boys is expanding the perimeter. Several AH artillery pieces have been railed in.

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hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

Kesselschlacht Paris impulse 2 May 1915

Notice the contested Paris hex.

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hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

Battle of Berlin impulse 2 May 1915

Only credible enemy concentration is at Berlin which probably consists of 4 B corps. The remainder is battered units or depleted units from France. Russia is running low on OP though getting only 2 per turn. Soon Rawlinson will be able to help settling that problem though.

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hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

Regarding the infamous Kesselschlacht of Berlin the Kaiser should have taken reference to 22.1 in the Manual:

On the Western and Italian fronts, if the defender takes 50 % more casualties than the attacker he is forced to retreat.

In one of the 4 battles though losses are depicted as being precisely 50 % so i guess that is a fraction rounded off or the losses must exceed 50 %. In the rest losses are below 50 %.

In the 4 battles of Paris France committed units with high readiness and SP and refitted battered units back to max strength in the hexes next to Paris. On the other hand Germany committed only 2 or 3 corps in the battle. That put together meant that although being the defender the German troops were unable to inflict enough casualties were as the fresh French troops exchanged just enough losses to stay in the fight.

The only remaining question is why there still was a dispute of ownership of Paris after the first battle ? Why does these situations occur sometimes ?

But from a French perspective quite in the spirit of "Il ne passeront pas" i must add or to quote Southpark "La resistance will live forever !"
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hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

What would have happened ?

The Russian advance in Germany was depending on the production of 2 OP per turn adding the British HQ to that so advance would have been slow but steady.

The Ottomans were pacified and irrelevant at this point of the game.

When Italy would have entered they would probably have concentrated on a drive NE to join hands with the Russians thereby isolating AH.

There was really no point in throwing more British manpower into Wilhelmshaven. The Russians were supplying enough bodies. The rest was ready to go to France together with the second HQ.

Most surprisingly after having endured several Entente blunders, the Germans throwing everything against them, bleeding to death in the Kesselschlacht of Paris and endless counterattacks, after having most of their country occupied, denied any military help from its allies, getting no economic help after 1914, investing in diplomacy and research only from 1915, having hit the manpower bottom the truth evidently was:

Even if Paris would have falled there was no way France would have surrendered in this game [X(]

Sure the turn Paris fell France would have hit "0" in morale. But they would get one crucial turn to come above "0" again and with that irresistible Russian drive through Germany they would gain morale by conquered cities and be impossible to knock out. Under more "normal" circumstances sure - no sweat, but this was not normal.

In July two full British Army groups would have entered France and either begun battling the encircled remainder of the French army in the Paris Kessel or just begun to liberate French cities. Sure, it would have taken time before France would be ready to offensives by its own hands but the day would have come......

I bow in reverence for French staying power. My deepest respect [&o]
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ulver
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by ulver »

ORIGINAL: hjaco

Regarding the infamous Kesselschlacht of Berlin the Kaiser should have taken reference to 22.1 in the Manual:

On the Western and Italian fronts, if the defender takes 50 % more casualties than the attacker he is forced to retreat.

In one of the 4 battles though losses are depicted as being precisely 50 % so i guess that is a fraction rounded off or the losses must exceed 50 %. In the rest losses are below 50 %.

In the 4 battles of Paris France committed units with high readiness and SP and refitted battered units back to max strength in the hexes next to Paris. On the other hand Germany committed only 2 or 3 corps in the battle. That put together meant that although being the defender the German troops were unable to inflict enough casualties were as the fresh French troops exchanged just enough losses to stay in the fight.

The only remaining question is why there still was a dispute of ownership of Paris after the first battle ? Why does these situations occur sometimes ?

But from a French perspective quite in the spirit of "Il ne passeront pas" i must add or to quote Southpark "La resistance will live forever !"

Did read the rules. Still believe we are dealing with a bug.

The implication here is clearly that if the defender is not forced to retreat the attacker is. The game did not allow me to move additionally corps into the hex nor was I allowed to refit the existing corps engaged in the battle. As a game mechanic it makes absolutely no sense and there are no provisions in the rules for contested control of the hex.

So how come you were allowed to stay in the hex even when your attacks on it failed 4 times in a row? – they rules cited doesn’t speak to that at all.

If there a situations where control of a hex can be contested and this is intentional at the very least it needs to be documented. As it stands the player has a reasonable expectation that control of hexes is determined by who wins or loses the battle.

I believe you would have won handily if Paris had fallen when it was suppose to anyway but then I believe I would have won our previous game as the fall of France is a necessary but by no means sufficient condition for a central powers victory.
hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

ORIGINAL: ulver

So how come you were allowed to stay in the hex even when your attacks on it failed 4 times in a row?

I believe you would have won handily if Paris had fallen when it was suppose to anyway but then I believe I would have won our previous game as the fall of France is a necessary but by no means sufficient condition for a central powers victory.

Very well being a sport i offer you to go back to the impulse you attacked Paris having destroyed the last remaining fortification and continue the game from there.

I will deliberately and voluntarily leave Paris and use activations to take it back.

It's only a 3 impulse rewind and we will continue with impulse 1 march 1915 with the file you send to me ?
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ulver
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by ulver »

By all means. Please note however that I’ve already concede that you are in a position to win anyway. . Nonetheless it would be an interesting experiment. I assume we go back to the latest turn where you have uncontested control of Paris? I honestly can remember the turn number but I’m sure you can find it. You want to send me the relevant move?
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by SteveD64 »

Do you guys think it's odd that you can invade a port hex that contains the High Seas Fleet with no response from them?  Surely, in real life, they would have engaged the British invasion fleet.  Maybe if a port contains a minimum number of ships it could be considered off limits to an invasion?
hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

ORIGINAL: CLEVELAND

Do you guys think it's odd that you can invade a port hex that contains the High Seas Fleet with no response from them? Surely, in real life, they would have engaged the British invasion fleet. Maybe if a port contains a minimum number of ships it could be considered off limits to an invasion?

I am just playing EUBanana and took Trieste on turn with the Serbs while part of the AH fleet was on patrol in western med. That resulted in the instantaneous scuttling of the fleets in question at sea on the next strategy phase.

Later he took back Trieste and the remaining AH ships were apparently still in the harbor cleverly camouflaged because the turn they were at sea [X(]

Back to your question - that's what control of sea areas is there for. No control = no invasion.

So no hiding in ports [;)]
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by SteveD64 »

whoa, in my humble opinion the naval part of this game needs a little tweaking
hjaco
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by hjaco »

ORIGINAL: ulver

By all means. Please note however that I’ve already concede that you are in a position to win anyway. . Nonetheless it would be an interesting experiment. I assume we go back to the latest turn where you have uncontested control of Paris? I honestly can remember the turn number but I’m sure you can find it. You want to send me the relevant move?

That will be from the combat phase of impulse 2 March 1915 which also saw the infamous finest hour of the Ottomans at Basra. I will later make my orders for impulse 1 and send you the game file.

We will play through until let's say the end of august turn to solve the Paris problem and possible France surrender.

From that time feel free to surrender the game whenever you see no point in continuing.

Deal ?
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RE: Il ne passeront pas !

Post by ulver »

Oh I’ll happily play all they way to German collapse.

We need to go back one further impulse since we still have contested control of Paris in the turn you send me. If this is to be a test for how long it takes you to win without the Paris bug we need a turn where there is uncontested control of the hex. (EI before there are Germans in the Hex)
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