Note on Event in Marshall u. Gilbert Island: Enemy launch heavy air raid to Kwa, and he landed a NW brigade in Tarawa. In my past 4 games (including this), 2 of them make a landing in Tarawa, one counter attack along Solomon, and the other make a raid in Marcus. Unfortunately the other "Tarawa Guy" was knocked out of the war before he could make further trouble. So now we would see what happens later.
EHRENBUCH UNSERE ARMEE U. MARINE == Trollelite (J) vs. Hoepner(A)
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
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trollelite
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:01 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Do you gentlemen have any suggestion how to defend against this?
We have four options:
1. Don't do anything, let he get what he wants, and hope he would be satisfied with that...[:D]
2. Send some Bettys and Nellys there, try to hold what could be hold, and disrupt his LOC.[:)]
3. Launch a counter attack somewhere else, to draw off his force.[;)]
4. Send KB eastwards and make a full-scale counter strike...[&o]
We have four options:
1. Don't do anything, let he get what he wants, and hope he would be satisfied with that...[:D]
2. Send some Bettys and Nellys there, try to hold what could be hold, and disrupt his LOC.[:)]
3. Launch a counter attack somewhere else, to draw off his force.[;)]
4. Send KB eastwards and make a full-scale counter strike...[&o]
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Since I have been also reading GHs AAR, I will not make concrete answer. But, if you are going to put massive forces into India, you should be prepared for the USN to attack your Eastern holdings. I guess I am saying that you should have Nells/Bettys at Kwajalien from the start to combat this.
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trollelite
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:01 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Note on Air Battle off Karachi: His fighters do manage to penetrate CAP of KB, which expose the problem due to disappear of zero bonus, however only several pathetic Wirraway followed with attack....[X(]. His bomber fleet of about 200 machines remained on the ground. Now GH must be really MAD..........[:D][:D][:D]
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trollelite
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:01 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Note on Naval Battle of Karachi : Last night we sent most avaiable heavy units of combined fleet to bombard Karachi harbor. The result is mixed. Thouth some ships are sunk, we also paid the price with Kumano and Jintsu sunk. Kumano only hit by 3 times, even these are all 9 inch shell,they are still not enough to sink her, so a bad dice happened and magazine exploded.... As I said, in this game there are many suprise happy and anger, and the latter is exclusively reserved for Jap side. Good patriotic work from development team...[:@]
The bombardment caused about 25 aircrafts destroyed, airfield lightly damaged, and about 100 guns destoryed. However, below is an important result, nearly compensate the loss of Kumano, can you say what is that?[&:]
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
Allied aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 2 destroyed
Blenheim I: 1 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 4 destroyed
Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIb: 2 destroyed
Do 24K-2: 1 destroyed
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed
Japanese Ships
BB Fuso
BB Hyuga
BB Mutsu
BB Kongo
Allied Ships
TK Athelstane, Shell hits 5, on fire
AK Empire Bay, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Memphis City, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Peisander, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Louisianan, Shell hits 1, on fire
PC Parvati, Shell hits 3, on fire
MLE Prome, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Gilbert, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Appleleaf, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Pleiodon, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
PG Shoreham, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Bond, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Foam, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Jalarajan, Shell hits 2, on fire
AK Borgfred, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Diplomat, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Nightingale, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Subadur, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Empire Waterhen, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Druid, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Allied ground losses:
5970 casualties reported
Guns lost 82
Vehicles lost 2
Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 22
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 2
The Karachi Campaign, until now, resulted in over 80 allies ships sunk, including about 20 escort ships and 3 fast liner with nearly 18,000 AP ability and a speed of 22 knots.
Japs losses is moderate, which could be accepted. Of course if my loss is an old Kakos or some worthless light cruiser instead of a modern Mogamis that would be better.
The bombardment caused about 25 aircrafts destroyed, airfield lightly damaged, and about 100 guns destoryed. However, below is an important result, nearly compensate the loss of Kumano, can you say what is that?[&:]
Naval bombardment of Karachi, at 21,3
Allied aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 2 destroyed
Blenheim I: 1 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 4 destroyed
Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed
Hurricane IIb: 2 destroyed
Do 24K-2: 1 destroyed
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed
Japanese Ships
BB Fuso
BB Hyuga
BB Mutsu
BB Kongo
Allied Ships
TK Athelstane, Shell hits 5, on fire
AK Empire Bay, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Memphis City, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Peisander, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Louisianan, Shell hits 1, on fire
PC Parvati, Shell hits 3, on fire
MLE Prome, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Gilbert, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Appleleaf, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AO Pleiodon, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
PG Shoreham, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Bond, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Foam, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Jalarajan, Shell hits 2, on fire
AK Borgfred, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Diplomat, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Empire Nightingale, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Subadur, Shell hits 1, on fire
AK Empire Waterhen, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
TK Empire Druid, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Allied ground losses:
5970 casualties reported
Guns lost 82
Vehicles lost 2
Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 22
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 2
The Karachi Campaign, until now, resulted in over 80 allies ships sunk, including about 20 escort ships and 3 fast liner with nearly 18,000 AP ability and a speed of 22 knots.
Japs losses is moderate, which could be accepted. Of course if my loss is an old Kakos or some worthless light cruiser instead of a modern Mogamis that would be better.
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Yeah, right...ORIGINAL: trollelite
As I said, in this game there are many suprise happy and anger, and the latter is exclusively reserved for Jap side. Good patriotic work from development team...
MLE Prome.ORIGINAL: trollelite
However, below is an important result, nearly compensate the loss of Kumano, can you say what is that?[&:]
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trollelite
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:01 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
[:D][:D][:D]
Thank you VSWG. I would look forward to battle you in AE... As you said, this is the only MLE in India water, so from now on no mine operation for GH anymore. He still has a minelayer (the one originally stationed in Calcutta) trapped in Karachi, we would try to take care her later.[:-]
Because of my own problems (homework this and that and perhaps a little journey), the battle with GH would be suspended until next weekend, I have explained that with GH. Thank you for support our little war and hope all you a happy holidays.[;)]
Thank you VSWG. I would look forward to battle you in AE... As you said, this is the only MLE in India water, so from now on no mine operation for GH anymore. He still has a minelayer (the one originally stationed in Calcutta) trapped in Karachi, we would try to take care her later.[:-]
Because of my own problems (homework this and that and perhaps a little journey), the battle with GH would be suspended until next weekend, I have explained that with GH. Thank you for support our little war and hope all you a happy holidays.[;)]
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trollelite
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:01 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Note on Battle of India:
After 4 weeks of battle, allies army is driven back to Karachi - Malir fortified Zone, with most bases in India falling into Japanese hand.
We managed to destory or totally rout his combat troops equals 5 brigades, 2 tank regiments, 7 India Air Base Forces, and 4 immobile Naval base force. Another 2 brigades are driven into roadless hex. About 80,000 allies soldiers either killed or captured, Japanese loss is minimal. The disruption of our plan is negligible, and allies defence of Southern and Middle India is largely ineffective.
After 4 weeks of battle, allies army is driven back to Karachi - Malir fortified Zone, with most bases in India falling into Japanese hand.
We managed to destory or totally rout his combat troops equals 5 brigades, 2 tank regiments, 7 India Air Base Forces, and 4 immobile Naval base force. Another 2 brigades are driven into roadless hex. About 80,000 allies soldiers either killed or captured, Japanese loss is minimal. The disruption of our plan is negligible, and allies defence of Southern and Middle India is largely ineffective.
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
plz including date in AAR~
hard to follow~
hard to follow~
As swift as wind;
As calm as wood;
Invasion like flames;
Defense like rocks.
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trollelite
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:01 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Eventully GH show some skill to prove he is a worthy opponent! I should congratulate his success, even the bad dice result does contribute significantly our failure. It looks this game would become much more interesting.
I am not gonna post detailed AAR. However, I don't think this would much affect the situation in India. His victory is not cheaply bought.
I am not gonna post detailed AAR. However, I don't think this would much affect the situation in India. His victory is not cheaply bought.
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
I wouldnt say bad dice result was the cause of that faliure. Rather it was the handling of the KB. Going that close to the largest allied airbase with the KB is like asking for a sunken CV. But maybe you've learned a lesson now.
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
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castor troy
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
- Location: Austria
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
ORIGINAL: trollelite
Eventully GH show some skill to prove he is a worthy opponent! I should congratulate his success, even the bad dice result does contribute significantly our failure. It looks this game would become much more interesting.
I am not gonna post detailed AAR. However, I don't think this would much affect the situation in India. His victory is not cheaply bought.
of course, it only can be the dice if the best WIPT player ever gets some problems... [>:][>:][>:] won´t take long and I will use the green button for the first time...
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trollelite
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:01 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Well, dear castor troy, of course dice play important part, as you would see in GHs post very soon. I am not saying I am the best. There are indeed some guys I know could be said as very elite, but not me. Even they would have problem with japanese. As allies all you have to fear is submarine or something.
As that one not welcomed in Pauks post, you are not welcomed here, either, so simply go away.
As that one not welcomed in Pauks post, you are not welcomed here, either, so simply go away.
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castor troy
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
- Location: Austria
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
ORIGINAL: trollelite
Well, dear castor troy, of course dice play important part, as you would see in GHs post very soon. I am not saying I am the best. There are indeed some guys I know could be said as very elite, but not me. Even they would have problem with japanese. As allies all you have to fear is submarine or something.
As that one not welcomed in Pauks post, you are not welcomed here, either, so simply go away.
that´s no problem for me, the green button is on now anyway... [>:]
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Capt Henry_MatrixForum
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:23 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
ORIGINAL: trollelite
Eventully GH show some skill to prove he is a worthy opponent! I should congratulate his success, even the bad dice result does contribute significantly our failure. It looks this game would become much more interesting.
I am not gonna post detailed AAR. However, I don't think this would much affect the situation in India. His victory is not cheaply bought.
I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at here. It almost sounds like you're suggesting GH shouldn't be able to have success at this point in the game. In reality, what you refer to as "bad dice rolls" would seem to be something that happen in real life. Midway, Turkey Shoot, Bull's Run (Halsey at Phillipines), Savo Island, to name a few. As players, part of the fun is trying to avoid putting ourselves in situations where a bad break, or the other player's good planning, can hurt us. Reading GH's combat report, it looks like there were several attack waves, which in real life would have used up quite a bit of ammunition from the CAP. Interception isn't always a science, either. I'm currently reading Lundstrom's "The First Team" and am reading about the Coral Sea battle. While attacking the Shokaku, one carrier's SBD's circled above the Japanese fleet, where they could see both carriers and the CAP, while waiting for the TBDs to show up. The Japanese ships and fighters didn't spot them until they had been there for some time.
In my current PBEM against TRES, I made the same mistake against Port Moresby that you made against India. I brought the KB in close to a large airfield that I chose not to put out of action with land-based air. Result, two CVEs sunk, one CVE severely damaged, and Hiryu in a drydock for several months. I wonder if our problems isn't that we're getting bad die rolls, but that we're comparing our games against the actual war where you could argue the Japanese had some exceptionally good "die rolls" early in the war. Is there an instance in 1941-42 where the Japanese (KB) actually tried to take on a large, well prepared, land-based air force? In this situation, it's not like GH wouldn't have known there was a possibility that the KB was coming at some point. He was ready for it.
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
And I don't know anyone who thinks a 9" shell couldn't IRL penetrate Kumano and set off a critical magazine explosion, you're only talking maybe 125mm of magazine armor and another 20-30mm (IIRC) deck armor.
The fact that you're anywhere near Karachi with the IJN and an invasion force undermines any claim that the game is slanted pro-Allied.
The fact that you're anywhere near Karachi with the IJN and an invasion force undermines any claim that the game is slanted pro-Allied.
Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.
Didn't we have this conversation already?
Didn't we have this conversation already?
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castor troy
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
- Location: Austria
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
And I don't know anyone who thinks a 9" shell couldn't IRL penetrate Kumano and set off a critical magazine explosion, you're only talking maybe 125mm of magazine armor and another 20-30mm (IIRC) deck armor.
The fact that you're anywhere near Karachi with the IJN and an invasion force undermines any claim that the game is slanted pro-Allied.
don´t say that, you "Allied weakling"... [;)] it´s only about bad die rolls... if you say something different you won´t be welcome in this thread anymore... like I am... ooops[X(] I´m in the wrong thread... [:-]
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
so a bad dice happened and magazine exploded.... As I said, in this game there are many suprise happy and anger, and the latter is exclusively reserved for Jap side. Good patriotic work from development team... [:@]
Oh MAN!!! [X(] [8|]
Are you serious or something?
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trollelite
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:01 pm
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
I would stop to discuss this with you as you are in no mood for serious tactical discussion. If you think two CD gun gonna sink 2 cruisers in every bombardment and magazin explode is breakfast for Jap ships we better stop to take Japs side right now. Why I said this is the result of bad dice is not serious? If I had allies hardware we could celebrate xmas of 1943 in SF, this is absolutely no joke.
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed
Well actually I didn't see much of a coastal gun reaction the second time you went there was there?
I mean, how many bombardments run did you make, and out of them, in how many of them did you lose 2 cruisers each time?
Now the question is: shall we consider the Bomb on Akagi's weakspot as a "bad dice roll" too? [&:]
I picture Nagumo shouting on the bridge "Now if I am to lose a carrier to every single american bomb I'd better stop to take the Japs side right now" [:D] [;)]
Now too bad for HMS Hood captain's too, that some pesky German shell found its way against all odds, Im sure he'd love to cast the dice again - hell WW2 was really a crappy game if you wanted to play the Brits...
Seriousely Troll, you are actually making such a bad name of yourself right now both because of your bias about the game and your little tendency to nasty arrogance that I can bet no-one serious over these boards may accept a challenge against you ever again.
Troll, this is just a friendly advice: get cool and get logical. No, the designers didn't trick the dice of the Japanese players. No, if the IJA never got passed Burma or never landed in Tahiti, it's not because they wouldn't - it's because they mainly couldn't.
I am what people call here a "Jap fanboy", even if I tend to consider myself in the middle - and still, it is obvious Japanese forces are given many advantages they couldn't expect to enjoy in real life. The simple fact that you can move around swiftly and land your nice IJA troops with a full complement of IJN ships implies that the IJN is playing gladly the role of IJA's mule, while they renounce at the same time to their very original objectives: the Ressources and the Pacific.
Hell man. Do you find it logical you may run around with no restrictions on command whatsoever, playing both the IJA and the IJN? Well I do not, but Im happy with it and I live with it, cuz we have no other way to simulate it for now - that's for being a "Jap realism fanboy", not a "Jap nostalgic of the fallen criminal mighty empire - now where's my fifth Yamato fanboy". I just don't want to offend you by asking how old you are - but I just can tell you from here, even Marky looked like a nicer chap than you are. Because at least, he had no bad intentions. He wouldn't inexplicably make a AAR about how screwed that game he plays is, a game for which you've find yourself a nice and experienced opponent who accepted to abide to every single custom homerules you could think of, and yet still complains about a balance that shouldn't even exist, while he's playing everything but a realistic strategy.
You just don't know what kind of reputation you're making yourself chap. I don't expect you to change or anything. I just wanna give you an advice before it's too late. If you follow that way a little longer, the only people who will post in your topic will do so to harm you, and you (nor the moderators) simply don't want that to happen.
I mean, no-one ever said you're a bad aplyer or something. Everyone can lose ships and still sleep at night. Ask the people who fought against PzB... No-need to say you're losing to the game. We just don't give a frack man. So get that big stick out of your bottom, get off your high horses ("a serious tactical discussion", ho God!) and let's just be cool. Go on playing, enjoy yourself, and we'll enjoy your game too. [8D]
I mean, how many bombardments run did you make, and out of them, in how many of them did you lose 2 cruisers each time?
Now the question is: shall we consider the Bomb on Akagi's weakspot as a "bad dice roll" too? [&:]
I picture Nagumo shouting on the bridge "Now if I am to lose a carrier to every single american bomb I'd better stop to take the Japs side right now" [:D] [;)]
Now too bad for HMS Hood captain's too, that some pesky German shell found its way against all odds, Im sure he'd love to cast the dice again - hell WW2 was really a crappy game if you wanted to play the Brits...
Seriousely Troll, you are actually making such a bad name of yourself right now both because of your bias about the game and your little tendency to nasty arrogance that I can bet no-one serious over these boards may accept a challenge against you ever again.
Troll, this is just a friendly advice: get cool and get logical. No, the designers didn't trick the dice of the Japanese players. No, if the IJA never got passed Burma or never landed in Tahiti, it's not because they wouldn't - it's because they mainly couldn't.
I am what people call here a "Jap fanboy", even if I tend to consider myself in the middle - and still, it is obvious Japanese forces are given many advantages they couldn't expect to enjoy in real life. The simple fact that you can move around swiftly and land your nice IJA troops with a full complement of IJN ships implies that the IJN is playing gladly the role of IJA's mule, while they renounce at the same time to their very original objectives: the Ressources and the Pacific.
Hell man. Do you find it logical you may run around with no restrictions on command whatsoever, playing both the IJA and the IJN? Well I do not, but Im happy with it and I live with it, cuz we have no other way to simulate it for now - that's for being a "Jap realism fanboy", not a "Jap nostalgic of the fallen criminal mighty empire - now where's my fifth Yamato fanboy". I just don't want to offend you by asking how old you are - but I just can tell you from here, even Marky looked like a nicer chap than you are. Because at least, he had no bad intentions. He wouldn't inexplicably make a AAR about how screwed that game he plays is, a game for which you've find yourself a nice and experienced opponent who accepted to abide to every single custom homerules you could think of, and yet still complains about a balance that shouldn't even exist, while he's playing everything but a realistic strategy.
You just don't know what kind of reputation you're making yourself chap. I don't expect you to change or anything. I just wanna give you an advice before it's too late. If you follow that way a little longer, the only people who will post in your topic will do so to harm you, and you (nor the moderators) simply don't want that to happen.
I mean, no-one ever said you're a bad aplyer or something. Everyone can lose ships and still sleep at night. Ask the people who fought against PzB... No-need to say you're losing to the game. We just don't give a frack man. So get that big stick out of your bottom, get off your high horses ("a serious tactical discussion", ho God!) and let's just be cool. Go on playing, enjoy yourself, and we'll enjoy your game too. [8D]