WAW update and notes

[thomas916]

i have a question just upgraded to the latest patch and trie to play WAW v27 but there is no option to save the game.Everytime it asked me to create a password after this I played one turn and wanted to quit but I could not save the game.(the button for saving is missing under the system option)

[Twotribes]

The scenario is et up to play by mail, when you start the scenario turn off the PBM options ( password and one other) I made the same mistake and had to do just as your doing now, ask what was going on.... )

[freeboy]

just in case that is not too clear, you can only save non pbem games

[thomas916]

Thanks a lot
That solved the problem

[jjdenver]

So what's conventional wisdom right now in this scenario re: what to do w/ France?

It sounds like abandon Maginot - defend around Paris, and evacuate some troops? Any thoughts?

Thanks

[SMK-at-work]

IIRC there's a penalty for evacuating hte Maginot line isn't there?
 
France is toast - best thing to do is probably to not invest too much in it - try to defend Lille for a turn if you can, Paris for another turn.....and be happy if you succeed!

[xBoroNx]

Afaik there is no penalty for evacuating the maginot line, only for the german if he crosses it before april 1940.

I usually simply evacuate the maginottroops in turn 1-3 to Lille and Paris. They are intended to die in France, but the 5 fighters get evacuated to GB and France usually builds only PP and no troops.
Then in april 1940 depending how good/bad the german start of Fall Gelb was if i think it was not too good i start the battle of britain then over french skies and France pumps out lots of defensive troops, rifles or mgs.
In some of my games this delayed the german player considerably.
Basically if the allied player decides to abandon the maginot line he more or less does what Manstein suggested for the French as counter for the german operational plan.

[jjdenver]

We're starting a game w/ these house rules. Anyone who has played the scenario (incl Tom) have comments on whether these will be too imbalanced or cause any problems we might not foresee? We've developed these based on the posts made in this forum about the scenario and the AAR.

1) no building factories
2) USSR must be DOW'd by Feb 42
3) US must be attacked by May 42
4) 1939 no research
1940 max tech level II
1941 still max tech level II
1942 max tech level III
1943 still max tech level III
1944 and 1945 max tech level IV

We haven't house-ruled the no blocking of ports w/ neutral ships but I think neither of us would do that so I guess we could add it as a house rule just to be clear.

Comments/suggestions?

[freeboy]

have you considered using my ca reduced air power mod, still in testing fyi?
It is specific to 27a and 27a test

[jjdenver]

Actually I feel like CA's have too much power against air too but we are already started and I'm hoping that eventually it becomes standard to reduce the flak power of CA's just a little bit.

[freeboy]

opk, let me know if you want to see my ca aa power reduced mod, they are easier to kill as well.. and u could self test it, or take your chances with me lol

[Barthheart]

Freeboy,

Would you mind posting what your mod is. Just a description of what you changed, ie numbers/factors, so that others of us can try it in our mods?

Thanks.

[freeboy]

sure.. hitpoints: inititive: attacks: %kill:
CA1 1000 3/3 3 10
CA2 1300 3/3 4 10
CA3 1600 4/4 5 15
CA4 2000 5/5 5 20


So far the testers seem to favor this as fleets are now vulnerable to air.. and it seems in the wide ocean expanses cv will rule as they should.

I think the ranges on land based level one plane is way to much imo.. we will see what we need for the future

[Barthheart]

Great thanks!

Yeah, I was thinking the all air ranges needed to be changed a bit.....

[freeboy]

I like the idea of a powerrfull, against bombers esp interceptor with a short range and a longer range escort poewerfull againt other fighters.
I like the idea of an event engine jets stf for the germans in 42 .. costly for pp but allowing jets in 43 44 45..
I like limiting research, perhaps simply making it more expensive?

Ilike WAW
I like my ca reducing mod as do the three testers I enlisted.. so far
I would not mind three week turns .
I think the reds should have a different production cost for ingfantry and perhaps more industry
I would like to see shorter ranges on dive bombers.
I like the idea of Two types of carrier air.. one anti ship/port and other intercepter type.. call them carrier fighterrs and carrier bombers ??/
I like the idea of no troops from enemy ocupied cities but perhaps reduced planes/tanks artillery// simulating captured industry
I like An event for no nazi tactics in Ukran and Baltic states giving Germans troops but limiting ss there.
other ideas anyone?
Think.. what option could be explored by the major powers.. IE german early armaments, total war footing  and more lesser quality tanks etc,
Or FDR takes us into war early event triggered by?
This engiune rocks for what if ????
 

[SMK-at-work]

xB wrote:

Afaik there is no penalty for evacuating the maginot line, only for the german if he crosses it before april 1940.

 
that must be what I was thinking of.
 
Can I suggest then that this is an opportunity for improvement??
 
The French forces in the Maginot line should be frozen or immobile - with a PP option to release them, since it would have been a major political change for het French to do so.
 
Can the AT system do that?

[freeboy]

sure, you have an event for loss of the maginot line as a stick and a build to the sea as a cost.. with the allied neutrals feeling abandoned going to germany
Not sure about units being frozen.. but seems Tom did this with the US ..

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I like the idea of a powerrfull, against bombers esp interceptor with a short range and a longer range escort poewerfull againt other fighters.
I like the idea of an event engine jets stf for the germans in 42 .. costly for pp but allowing jets in 43 44 45..
I like limiting research, perhaps simply making it more expensive?

Ilike WAW
I like my ca reducing mod as do the three testers I enlisted.. so far
I would not mind three week turns .
I think the reds should have a different production cost for ingfantry and perhaps more industry
I would like to see shorter ranges on dive bombers.
I like the idea of Two types of carrier air.. one anti ship/port and other intercepter type.. call them carrier fighterrs and carrier bombers ??/
I like the idea of no troops from enemy ocupied cities but perhaps reduced planes/tanks artillery// simulating captured industry
I like An event for no nazi tactics in Ukran and Baltic states giving Germans troops but limiting ss there.
other ideas anyone?
Think.. what option could be explored by the major powers.. IE german early armaments, total war footing  and more lesser quality tanks etc,
Or FDR takes us into war early event triggered by?
This engiune rocks for what if ????

Great ideas! I was considering the following additions to your list:

Different types of factories - aircraft/vehicles/guns/shipyard but no supply/PP/infantry
Factories completely destructable
Strategic Bombers different from level bombers

[tweber]

I am actually working on 2 others scenarios and want to get them done. But, it someone would like to make variations of this scenario, I would be happy to provide guidance. Here are some thoughts on the suggestions so far:

1) no building factories
2) USSR must be DOW'd by Feb 42
3) US must be attacked by May 42
4) 1939 no research
1940 max tech level II
1941 still max tech level II
1942 max tech level III
1943 still max tech level III
1944 and 1945 max tech level IV

First 1 is easy, just change the location type so it is not buildable. However, I still do not think this is a dominating strategy for the Axis.
2&3 are also easy through events. Although as a design philosophy, I have never like the automatic war just because the date changed.
4 is tough right now. Currently R&D does not have pre-requisites based on variables. Actually, item types does. This is how I do manpower. So, you could make it so that level x units could not be produced until time y. However, you could still do the research before hand. But, this is not particularly elegant. One thought would be to change the cost of pp over time. PP is, after all, an itemtype. You could double or multiply by ten the cost of the next R&D level. You could then divide by 2 or 10 the cost of pp at the time you want to allow this next research.

I like the idea of a powerrfull, against bombers esp interceptor with a short range and a longer range escort poewerfull againt other fighters.
I like the idea of an event engine jets stf for the germans in 42 .. costly for pp but allowing jets in 43 44 45..
I like limiting research, perhaps simply making it more expensive?

Ilike WAW
I like my ca reducing mod as do the three testers I enlisted.. so far
I would not mind three week turns .
I think the reds should have a different production cost for ingfantry and perhaps more industry
I would like to see shorter ranges on dive bombers.
I like the idea of Two types of carrier air.. one anti ship/port and other intercepter type.. call them carrier fighterrs and carrier bombers ??/
I like the idea of no troops from enemy ocupied cities but perhaps reduced planes/tanks artillery// simulating captured industry
I like An event for no nazi tactics in Ukran and Baltic states giving Germans troops but limiting ss there.
other ideas anyone?

For the first type above, you just have to add the appropriate sftypes, itemtypes, and update the research trees.
Research cost is set in the research sheet of the editor

3 week turns (or any turn duration of x days) is set in settings in the editor. You would have to check events to make sure nothing is triggered on a round higher than 1.
Changing production at a regime level would require major rework. You would have to define new people groups, change the people of production centers and of units.
For 'no troops' in enemy cities, you would have to mark cities with a slot to show original ownership, then run a map looper at the start of the turn. If the ownership had changed, you would have to change the production to a different produciton type. You would have to define a set of 'limited' production types. You would also need an event that undid this in the event that the city was recaptured. (If you can write this event, you probably do not need my help anymore)

The French forces in the Maginot line should be frozen or immobile - with a PP option to release them, since it would have been a major political change for het French to do so.

Can the AT system do that?

I can think of 2 ways to do this. First, you could count the garrison and put an incentive to keep it at a certain level. This would be similar to the garrison event in the east. Second, you could define a new regime called 'Maginot'. It would have to have an event to get the right supply. You could take the approate Vic used in the N.A. scenario. The regime might take independent or join the West at a certain time (like when the Western blitz card was played).

The one idea I would like to see someone pick up is a scenario that starts in May 1940, June 1941, or December 1941. This scenario would be much more multiplayer friendly.

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: tweber
...
Changing production at a regime level would require major rework. You would have to define new people groups, change the people of production centers and of units.
For 'no troops' in enemy cities, you would have to mark cities with a slot to show original ownership, then run a map looper at the start of the turn. If the ownership had changed, you would have to change the production to a different produciton type. You would have to define a set of 'limited' production types. You would also need an event that undid this in the event that the city was recaptured. (If you can write this event, you probably do not need my help anymore)
...

I have this pretty much complete now in my mod just need to finish the events to change the production center types. the following peoples are in the scenario now:
Germans
SS
Italians
Russians
Siberians
British
French
Canadians
South Africans
Indians
Australians
Dutch
Belgians
Danish
Norwegians
Polish
Chinese
Japanese
Greeks
Yugoslavians
Hungarians
Rumanians
Bulgarians
Finish
Free French
Vichy French
RSI Italians

All with separate flags and ID markers.

I would like some input on whether I should make national differences on fighting ability and how best to do this. I think maybe national morale might work best and can change over time.
Example: Use Germans as bench mark set to 1 for 1939 to 1944 then .8 for 1945 (or maybe manpower level) due to drop in quality of troops.
Then Brits might be .85 for 1939 to 1942 then .9 until 1944 then 1
USA might be .9 until 1943 or 44
Russia would be .7 until 1943 then 1
Rumania would be .8 for entire war.

That kind of thing.
Hope to get some more work done on this this weekend.... real life is keeping me busy during the week.... and all the PBEM games I'm in.