Resource Types

[Frederyck]

Here is an interesting discussion about Petsamo and the mines there during WWII.

http://www.ww2f.com/battle-europe/13468 ... ickel.html

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

The results of tonight's work:

For accuracy, each of British Guyana's and Dutch Guyana's resource hexes should be moved one hex eastwards along the coast.

Right for British Guyana. For Dutch Guyana, there are also Bauxite mining & processing in the Maracaibo area, so to stay in the minimalistic changes approach, I'll leave it as it is.

Ndola copper 13%
Algeria coal
Belgian Congo diamonds 63%!
Brazil bauxite (move to 2N Sao Paulo)

It is more consistent with my Brazil Economic map too, and consistent with the WiF FE map too.

Chile: I cannot find anything near Arica in extreme north.  Chile produced 18% of the world's copper from three big fields, so recommend move Arica resource to 1NE Antofagusta and label all three resources 'copper'.

Agreed. But I moved the Arica RP to Chuquicamata, that is about 2 hexes NE of Antofagusta on the railway.

China 78,146 (if moved to Tsingkow, which should be renamed Haichow) phosphates

This position would be the best position regarding the consistency with the WiF FE map. That is, on the shore, directly transportable. Agreed too for the name.
Wosung, do you agree that this is OK too ?

Steve, this change makes the game say that it can't find Tsingkow, you'll need to do a change in the code for that.

Cuba manganese 2% (no, cigars are not a war materiel, unless you are a Former Naval Person)
Peru antimony 3%

Are yo sure about this one ? My economic map about Peru (from 1970) shows that at the area where the resource is on the MWiF map (near Puno), there is Lead, Zinc, Silver and Copper.

South Africa 148,56 gold
South Africa 155,53 diamonds

Still waiting for opinions on those ones. See post #57 in this thread.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Northeastern resource in Pennsylvania (next to the A) is coal.

Remember, I'm French. I looked for Pennsylvania for 45 seconds before finding it.

The mountain hex in West Virginia is coal too.

Hex 68,309 ?

Pittsburgh is iron, but I am not sure if both of them are iron.

The second one in "both" is the mountain one ? This is the mountain one that youre unsure about ?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Norman42
Some Soviet resources:

Karaganda USSR = Coal Fields
Kerch USSR = Iron Ore
Kursk USSR = Iron Ore/Phosphates
Magnitogorsk USSR = (surprise) Iron Ore
Stalinsk USSR = Coal Fields

Some Balkans:

Greece = Bauxite(Aluminim)
Bulgaria = Lead/Zinc
Forest Yugoslavia = Copper
Mountain Yugoslavia = Chromium
Hungary = Bauxite(Aluminum)
Turkey = Chromium (both resources, though the eastern one really should be 2 hexes further east)

OK, thanks. The Kursk one I could not confirm strongly, but the rest I could. The eastern Turkish RP could be moved, that's sure, but that's in the limits of the European map, so I'll avoid touching it. I'd have moved it 3 hexes along the rail, to the east, to put it around Elazig. But there is also a little oil in the area where the resource actualy is, so it is OK there.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Patrice, I am not sure why you chose to label Charlestown West Virginia.

Because it is the capital of the State.
I placed all States' capitals on the map, as well as some other famous cities.
Charlestown is both, famous and a capital of State.

Ok. I figured that out.

But the famous Charlestown is in South Carolina.

Ah...
Well, it is the capital of West Virginia, even if it is not the famous Charleston from South Carolina.
I liked to add all the States' Capitals. Even if they sometimes are tiny places. After all, they are just, more names in a country where there are not a lot of names already, so it helps people knowing where they are.

[Froonp]

Here is the resource list (137) after your comments & suggestions : 56 are not defined, 81 are.

Cardiff United Kingdom 1 Coal
Chengtu China 1 Coal
Chungking China 2 Coal
Coventry United Kingdom 1 Iron
Essen Germany 1 Coal
Hanoi Indo-China 1 Coal
Hanover Germany 1 Iron
Indianapolis USA 1
Karaganda USSR 1 Coal
Katowice Poland 1 Coal
Kerch USSR 1 Iron
Kursk USSR 1 Iron
Little Rock USA 1
Louisville USA 1
Magnitogorsk USSR 1 Iron
Metz France 1 Iron
Ndola Northern Rhodesia 1 Copper
Newcastle Australia 1 Coal
Paramaribo Dutch Guyana 1 Bauxite
Petsamo Finland 1 Nickel
Phoenix USA 1
Pittsburgh USA 1 Iron
Pola Italy 1 Bauxite
Saarbrücken Germany 1 Coal
Sian China 1 Coal
Stalinsk USSR 1 Coal
Sudbury Canada 1 Nickel
Tsitsihar Manchuria 1 Gold
Béchar Algeria 1
Mount Isa Australia 1 Lead
Broken Hill Australia 1 Silver
Clear 127,52 Belgian Congo 1 Diamond
Clear 53,32 Belgium 1 Phosphates
Mountain 141,321 Bolivia 1 Tin
Clear 141,341 Brazil 1 Bauxite
Clear 110,331 British Guyana 1 Bauxite
Mountain 66,51 Bulgaria 1 Lead/Zinc
Thetford Mines Canada 1 Asbestos
Pembroke Canada 1 Timber ?
Forest 52,298 Canada 1 Timber ?
Mountain 51,276 Canada 1 Mixed
Mountain 158,318 Chile 1 Copper
Mountain 150,319 Chile 1 Copper
Chuquicamata Chile 1 Copper
Haichow China 1 Phosphates
Clear 73,143 China 1 Coal
Clear 86,142 China 1 Antimony
Forest 90,138 China 1 Tin
Desert Mountain 68,141 China 1 Iron
Mountain 72,130 China 1 Iron
San Luis Cuba 1 Manganese
Mountain 75,60 Cyprus 1
Forest 54,39 Czechoslovakia 1
Clear 89,148 Formosa 1 Iron
Clear 55,32 France 1
Clear 53,30 France 1
Clear 54,28 France 1
Clear 56,26 France 1
Mountain 62,31 France 1
Clear 50,40 Germany 1
Clear 53,38 Germany 1
Clear 49,36 Germany 1
Clear 51,33 Germany 1
Clear 53,43 Germany 1
Mountain 71,48 Greece 1 Bauxite
Forest 96,139 Hainan 1 Bauxite
Clear 59,44 Hungary 1 Bauxite
Clear 90,113 India 1
Warangal India 1 Granite ?
Forest 90,106 India 1
Mountain 95,110 India 1
Forest 64,37 Italy 1
Mountain 62,33 Italy 1
Mountain 62,171 Japan 1 Coal
Mountain 71,154 Korea 1 Iron
Jungle 115,130 Malaya 1 Rubber
Mountain 113,129 Malaya 1 Tin
Mountain 67,145 Manchuria 1 Iron
Mountain 68,151 Manchuria 1 Iron
Clear 86,288 Mexico 1
Clear 49,33 Netherlands 1
Mountain 142,194 New Caledonia 1 Nickel
Knaben Norway 1 Molybdenum
Mountain 134,318 Peru 1
Mountain 101,151 Philippines 1 Gold
Clear 52,45 Poland 1
Mountain 66,17 Portugal 1
Clear 70,34 Sardinia 1
Kayes Senegal 1 Iron
Clear 155,53 South Africa 1
Clear 148,56 South Africa 1
Mountain 63,22 Spain 1
Mountain 71,21 Spain 1
Mountain 69,19 Spain 1
Mountain 62,18 Spain 1
Gällivare Sweden 2 Iron
Kiruna Sweden 1 Iron
Mountain 71,64 Turkey 1 Chromium
Mountain 72,55 Turkey 1 Chromium
Clear 65,299 USA 1
Clear 64,296 USA 1
Clear 69,293 USA 1
Clear 54,273 USA 1
Mountain 74,271 USA 1
Clear 64,313 USA 1 Coal
Forest 71,307 USA 1
Mountain 65,310 USA 1
Clear 68,306 USA 1
Forest 72,306 USA 1
Ironwood USA 1 Iron
Mountain 68,309 USA 1 Coal
Forest 58,283 USA 1
Mountain 68,284 USA 1
Mountain 66,278 USA 1
Mountain 67,269 USA 1
Clear 55,296 USA 1
Clear 71,299 USA 1
Mountain 74,304 USA 1
Clear 52,145 USSR 1 Tin
Clear 51,64 USSR 1
Clear 43,62 USSR 1
Krivoy Rog USSR 3 Iron
Forest 63,72 USSR 1
Forest 39,88 USSR 1
Suchan USSR 1 Iron
Forest 59,162 USSR 1 Lead
Kokand USSR 1 Cotton ?
Stalinabad USSR 1 Coal
Forest 42,87 USSR 1
Mountain 53,160 USSR 1 Coal
Biisk USSR 1
Forest 63,47 Yugoslavia 1 Copper
Mountain 65,47 Yugoslavia 1 Chromium

Some have question marks, because I am less than sure.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
Metz iron

I'm researching France right now, and I think that the Metz hex is Coal.
The Iron is on the hex west of Metz.

Metz : Coal
Clear 55,32 : Iron
Clear 53,30 : Coal
Clear 54,28 : Iron
Clear 56,26 : Iron
Mountain 62,31 : Bauxite (not realy here, more in the hex to the east, but won't move it)

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
Essen coal
Hanover iron
Saarbrucken coal
Katowice coal

I agree with the above, plus, about Germany :

Clear 49,36 (NE Hanover) : Potash
Clear 53,38 (NE Nuremberg) : Iron
Clear 51,33 (NW Cologne) : Coal
Clear 50,40 (E Berlin) : Coal
Clear 53,43 (SE Breslau) : Coal

And Poland :
Clear 52,45 (NW Krakow) : Iron

[marcuswatney]

Peru: pre-war did produce 2% of the world's copper, but not near Puno.  Site nearest the resource symbol is Corocoro which is actually across the border in Bolivia.  Peruvian copper mines were at Cerro de Pasco (looks close to Lima) and Quiruvilca (half-way between Lima and Ecuador).
 
Lead and zinc are together at Cerro de Pasco, Ayacucho (in the mountains) and up the coast at Huaras.
 
Pre-war Peru produced 8% of the world's silver with a very big site at Cerro de Pasco, and minor production between there and Pallasca in the north.  The most southerly mine was at Ayucucho.
 
Antimony on the other hand is specifically identified as coming from "Puno Dept" with a red blob at the west end of Lake Titicaca.  Pre-war Peru produced 3% of the world's antimony, respectable enough to warrant a resource symbol.
 
Presumably mining operations have increased there since the war.  (I was in Puno in 1975... had a nice meal there and caught a train to Arequippa ... but can't remember noticing any mines).
 
So the question is: do you want to move the resource symbol to be copper or silver from Cerro de Pasco, or accept antimony, whose site is definitely identified as Puno?

[marcuswatney]

Algeria: coal
 
Can you provide a list of resources yet to be determined?  I'll have a look at Spain now.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
So the question is: do you want to move the resource symbol to be copper or silver from Cerro de Pasco, or accept antimony, whose site is definitely identified as Puno?

I prefer leaving the resource where it is placed on the MWiF map, as it is placed here on the WiF FE map too.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Algeria: coal

Can you provide a list of resources yet to be determined?  I'll have a look at Spain now.

To be determined :

Indianapolis USA
Little Rock USA
Louisville USA
Phoenix USA
Clear 90,113 India
Forest 90,106 India
Mountain 95,110 India
Warangal 97,107 India
Forest 64,37 Italy
Mountain 62,33 Italy
Clear 86,288 Mexico
Clear 49,33 Netherlands
Mountain 66,17 Portugal
Clear 70,34 Sardinia
Clear 155,53 South Africa (see post #57)
Clear 148,56 South Africa (see post #57)
Mountain 63,22 Spain
Mountain 71,21 Spain
Mountain 69,19 Spain
Mountain 62,18 Spain
Clear 65,299 USA
Clear 64,296 USA
Clear 69,293 USA
Clear 54,273 USA
Mountain 74,271 USA
Forest 71,307 USA
Mountain 65,310 USA
Clear 68,306 USA
Forest 72,306 USA
Forest 58,283 USA
Mountain 68,284 USA
Mountain 66,278 USA
Mountain 67,269 USA
Clear 55,296 USA
Clear 71,299 USA
Mountain 74,304 USA
Clear 51,64 USSR
Clear 43,62 USSR
Forest 63,72 USSR
Forest 39,88 USSR
Forest 42,87 USSR
Biisk USSR
Kokand USSR
Pembroke Canada Timber ? (See post #60)
Forest 52,298 Timber ? (See post #60)

[marcuswatney]

Spain: 1E Vigo tungsten 1% (or tin <1%)
1SW Bilbao iron <1%
1NW Almeiria: zinc 3% (some iron too, but since Bilbao is definitely iron and Spain was not a significant producer, recommend zinc)
'Morena': lead 2%
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
Portugal: tungsten 7%

[marcuswatney]

Italy: forest: mercury 44% (or pyrites 9%)
mountain: zinc 6% (or asbestos 2%)
&nbsp;
Sardinia: coal
&nbsp;
CORRECTION: 'Morena', Spain, mercury 28%.
&nbsp;
Turns out Italy was the top producer of mercury pre-war from a single mine at Siena producing 44%, with Spain in second place at 28%.&nbsp;

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Spain: 1E Vigo tungsten 1% (or tin <1%)
1SW Bilbao iron <1%
1NW Almeiria: zinc 3% (some iron too, but since Bilbao is definitely iron and Spain was not a significant producer, recommend zinc)

On my 1974 Minerals in Spain map, I see Lead and Iron NW of Almeria. Are you sure about Zinc ? Zinc I see E of Bilbao only.

'Morena': lead 2%
CORRECTION: 'Morena', Spain, mercury 28%.

The map show less Mercury than Lead, but this may be less, and still be a larger part of the production.

Portugal: tungsten 7%

OK.

One thing though. What kind of material was Spain shipping to Germany during WWII ? Does anyone know ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Norman42
With regards to the 'showing the resources' issue, I think it is a bit of information overkill since the information is irrelevant to gameplay. I think it should only be shown on a hex fly-out data panel or something, or *only* visible at zoom 8 (if someone cares enough to wonder about the resource present they can zoom in for data).

Well, that's a good idea.
Why not have those informations writen in a "special font size" (for example size 1), and have some code that would say : all text defined in size 1 don't appear on the map, but instead appear in a fly-out after the mouse has been hovering the hex for 1 second ?

And also : Why not having the text that appears on the map in a given hex (any text, be it a river name or a city name), also appear in a fly-out too after the mouse hover the given hex for 1 second ? Then, texts written in size 1 (as a "special font size" as defined above) would also appear in a fly-out.

The text in the fly out would be written in a standard font size.
If there are multiple texts in the hex, then all appear one below the other.

Also, this could be turned off as a game interface option.

No. I do not want to have the program checking for "hovering cursors" over map labels. There is too much else that the program has to execute when the map is being displayed.

[Norman42]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Fort William has 26k inhabitants in 1935 (31k in 1944) and Port Arthur has 20k inhabitants in 1935 and 24k in 1944, this does not warrant a city. I agree that Sudbury with its 32k inhabitants in 1944 do not warrant a city either, but this one was added to keep the supply level reflected by the WiF FE original map North of Lake Huron.

Hmm, I'm not sure where you are getting your data from, but having been a citizen of Fort William/Port Arthur for 27 years, I can tell you your numbers are way off. During the war the population actually spiked in 1945 to over 130,000 with temporary labor helping with grain shipments and military training units, and the combined population of the cities was over 85k in 1939. Alot of the published census numbers are sadly inaccurate for this area due to the 'twin city' effect (Thunder Bay is really the amalgamation of several cities, and has many outlying suburbs thet pushed the population even higher, even though they weren't considered in "Port Arthur/Fort William" until after the amalgamation and incorporation of the cities into the new City of Thunder Bay) and the vast transient labor population that existed during 1937-1946. I worked at the Thunder Bay Historical Museum for 8 years, I'm very aware of the populations and products and value that T. Bay had during the war years. In 1935 the population was around 50k for the combined cities, and it grew explosively in the 37-45 era since it was such a key location in Canada's transportation network(it was the gateway hub for all East/West Canada shipping/railways) and the highest volume resource exporting port on the upper Great Lakes. In fact it exported more and had a higher population then Duluth, Minnesota had during the war, and Duluth is on the map not very far away. I really think it does deserve a city hex, not that it would ever really be used, just for historical accuracy. [:D]

Yes, but it is supply starved on the WiF FE America map too, so for consistency reasons, it has to be the same level of supply IMO on the MWiF map.

With the changes in map scale and cities added to other supply starved areas in China/USA/USSR I think "consistancy" is not enough of a reason to exclude a key supply depot. The Armories in the city supported the Lake Superior Scottish Regiment(Mot), Lake Superior Regiment, parts of the Princess Patricia's Light Infantry as well as housing several other Commonwealth divisions and the Empire Air Training Program that were training throughout the war. So it was indeed both a military supply source(the largest between Winnipeg and Toronto) and a major commerce transportation hub and crossroads. Sounds like the veritable definition of "supply source".

If I tell you that originaly the resource on the WiF FE maps was on the railway junction from Fort William and Winnipeg, what do you think it could be ? Still lumber ?

That junction is the location of the Atikokan Mines, but really the forestry industry was a much larger portion of resources in this region and still is today.

Well, Noranda / Rouyn is not around Mont Laurier, it is on the Quebec-Cochrane railway (on a southward spur), I'd say 2 hexes east of Cochrane. At least on my 1944 Collier Atlas map. I agree though that it is a Copper Mine.
Before moving this resource in Noranda, I would like to know something : Originaly (on the WiF FE maps), this "Prembroke" resource is placed 1 hex west of Ottawa, 1 hex northeast of Toronto. Do you see what it could be ? If you see nothing, I might move it to Noranda, but this is quite far away from the original position.

Correct, the Noranda region is not exactly at the Mt Laurier area, but it is the closest railhead point to the resource. Close enough for arguments sake at least, I'd put the resource 3 hexes north west of Mt Laurier, in the clear hex on the Cochrane/Quebec Railway, or even closer if you dont mind adding the railway spur. The Noranda-Rouyn Mining Complex had 63 seperate mines in 1944, one of the most mineral rich areas in the world. As far as the Pembroke area, there are no significant resources of any magnitude, some small mining operations, some dairy and produce crops, nothing really major. Noranda far outweighs the Pembroke area for resource output.

5. Western Canada resource - This would represent an amalgamation of all of Alberta's Livestock, Grain, and Oil production. As these sites were spread out across the province no single location is any better.
OK, so no specific type of resource. Say it is "Mixed".

"Mixed" sounds right, though I would be tempted to put the resource a couple hexes eastwards so its in the plains not the mountains. The Alberta plains is where the vast majority of AB's resource wealth is (Livestock, Grain, Oil). The Alberta mines in the mountains were far less developed during the war, mostly consisting of small gold claims.

.

[Norman42]

Biisk USSR

&nbsp;
I can't even find this city (in Atlas or on MWiF maps) does it have another name?

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: Norman42

Biisk USSR

I can't even find this city (in Atlas or on MWiF maps) does it have another name?

Biisk

From: The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | Date: 2007

Biisk see Biysk , Russia.

[marcuswatney]

Wasn't too sure how important mercury was to the war effort, but found this:
&nbsp;
"In World War II, the only commonly available dry battery was the carbon-zinc cell, which suffered greatly in the high temperatures and high humidity of some theatres of operation. The search for a better battery succeeded in 1944, with the invention of the mercury dry battery. This battery could not only resist the high temperatures and high humidity, but also had better discharge characteristics, longer shelf life, and greater efficiency.
&nbsp;
The excellent mercury battery, and to a large extent the nickel-cadmium cell, have been suppressed because of the mercury and cadmium they contain, which are a hazard with unwise disposal of used batteries. Since it is easier to legislate the batteries out of existence than to control disposal in the face of a careless and ignorant population, this has been done."