AE Naval and OOB Issues [OUTDATED]

[steveh11Matrix]

Besides, if you don't like it - edit it! I'm going to. [8D]

Steve.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: spence

It sorta devolves to an OOB issue because of the game mechanics since HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales are conveniently hanging their posteriors out for the Nipponese to bite during the first turn of the historical scenario and the Allied Player has no choices to make but simply gets to watch while the Nells/Bettys put enough torpedoes into each to insure that neither can possibly figure into the Japanese Players calculations for the rest of the battles of Malaya or the DEI. BTW the same sense of ahistoricality (must be a new word invented by me[;)]) is the air cover (inadequate) that the TF gets. Does allowing the Allied Player to make his own choices with these two ships totally unbalance the game?

Well in my game with Prz...my Netties hit diddly squat so...yes I do have to contend with Force Z.

[John Lansford]

I like the damage reports during combat.  My 5" CD guns at Wake Island hit a PB and I got a report saying "topsides carried away" by the hit.  I've also seen "target obliterated" after a Devastator put a torpedo into a PB...

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: bsq

ORIGINAL: JWE

Have to make compromises. Not seen as issue. Sorry.

Not really a compromise is it - so far I have lost the two ships before 10 Dec 41 on each time I have fired up the scenario. Now I am not RADM Phillips, I know what aeroplanes and their torpedoes can do to my shiny battlewaggons and I can see the bigger picture, but as they get detected and therefore attacked every single time on 7 Dec 41 what can I do...

If the Japanese get me every time, the person making the upgrades wasted their time and effort as the 'historical' first turn manages consistently to do what the Japanese did not...
I can accept the PH lottery, but this is not a lottery, it's pointless.

(Edit - Of course if naval search really is that good, then I am looking forward to any Sigint reports that allow me to arrange a little surprise for the IJN carriers in early/mid 42)

You could play me ...cause my Netties didn't hit them against Prz....or you could play without the historical 1st turn.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi Whipple,

The Rear 14" Guns have reduced from 6 to 5. Can AE distinguish between Barrel loss vs Turret loss then?

We'll look at it.

[Speedysteve]

Thanks Don

[Roko]

ship class 2135 Tonan Whaler tonnage looks incorrect ( 13340 )
 
it should be ~17549 GRT
 
http://books.google.pl/books?id=lhac0fSx-rsC&pg=PT254&vq=kyokuyo&dq=kyokuyo+maru&lr=&output=html&source=gbs_search_r&cad=1

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Roko
ship class 2135 Tonan Whaler tonnage looks incorrect ( 13340 )

it should be ~17549 GRT

The game parameter called "Tonnage" has nothing whatsoever to do with GRT. The Tonan Whaler "tonnage" parameter is correct.

"Tonnage" is a physical size/displacement parameter and is based on physical displacement, loa, moulded beam, draft, block and other coefficients, and in specific lading conditions. It is used for 'docking', 'shipyard repair', and the like.

"Tonnage" for warships is predicated on "Standard Tonnage".
"Tonnage" for auxiliary ships is predicated on Dspl-Navy Lt, Dspl-MC Lt, foreign analogs to Dspl-MC Lt, a footprint coefficient factor, and lading additions/subtractions as necessary.

[Mike Solli]

The different types of tons has always made my head hurt.  I'll take your word for that part of the game. [:D]

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
The different types of tons has always made my head hurt.  I'll take your word for that part of the game. [:D]

Made my head hurt too, pal. Problem was that "tonnage" generates other things, like DUR, economy construction costs, all those other Nifty WiTP things. Warships were simple, you can always find a standard tonnage for them, so they are "relatively related". But GRT has no relationship whatever to displacement, so a 10k GRT Liberty would have the same costs, etc, as a heavy cruiser. Woof !!

Had to find a way to express auxiliary "tonnage" in similar terms as warship 'standard tonnage', taking all the different program uses of the 'tonnage' parameter into account.

Well ... finally figured it out - after much scotch - it sounds technical, guess it is technical, but the heavy duty ship pukes will know where it's coming from if it's expressed as:

Dspl Lt' + [(DwT-fl) - (DwT-net)] +/- (block differential multiplier) +/- (prismatic differential multiplier) +/- (outa John's butt factor to make it fit on the curve)

Dspl-Lt' is how she displaces utterly, and totally empty. The last factor is rather small and only applies to a few specialized ships, so modders need not freak.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
The different types of tons has always made my head hurt.  I'll take your word for that part of the game. [:D]

Made my head hurt too, pal. Problem was that "tonnage" generates other things, like DUR, economy construction costs, all those other Nifty WiTP things. Warships were simple, you can always find a standard tonnage for them, so they are "relatively related". But GRT has no relationship whatever to displacement, so a 10k GRT Liberty would have the same costs, etc, as a heavy cruiser. Woof !!

Had to find a way to express auxiliary "tonnage" in similar terms as warship 'standard tonnage', taking all the different program uses of the 'tonnage' parameter into account.

Well ... finally figured it out - after much scotch - it sounds technical, guess it is technical, but the heavy duty ship pukes will know where it's coming from if it's expressed as:

Dspl Lt' + [(DwT-fl) - (DwT-net)] +/- (block differential multiplier) +/- (prismatic differential multiplier) +/- (outa John's butt factor to make it fit on the curve)

Dspl-Lt' is how she displaces utterly, and totally empty. The last factor is rather small and only applies to a few specialized ships, so modders need not freak.

[Iridium]

So I'm looking at the Japanese CA upgrades and I noticed that Takao doesn't get it's center 8" turret removed and replaced by 2 dual 12.7cm DP guns late war...think it was somewhere in it's '44 refit off hand. I'd have to check a source that has been since stored in boxes since I moved...[:(]

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Iridium
So I'm looking at the Japanese CA upgrades and I noticed that Takao doesn't get it's center 8" turret removed and replaced by 2 dual 12.7cm DP guns late war...think it was somewhere in it's '44 refit off hand. I'd have to check a source that has been since stored in boxes since I moved...[:(]

Yes it does. It is not listed under Takao "Class", it is listed under Maya "Class".

[Iridium]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Iridium
So I'm looking at the Japanese CA upgrades and I noticed that Takao doesn't get it's center 8" turret removed and replaced by 2 dual 12.7cm DP guns late war...think it was somewhere in it's '44 refit off hand. I'd have to check a source that has been since stored in boxes since I moved...[:(]

Yes it does. It is not listed under Takao "Class", it is listed under Maya "Class".

Ah, silly me...[:D]

[DBS]

Very minor typos - Ship #1470 has no space between Ansyu and Maru. Ditto 1483, 1389.
3179 should be Ramillies.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Iridium
Ah, silly me...[:D]

No, NOT silly you. Keep them coming. We never know if we did a stupid typo or not, unless we have to look at it.

Upgrades and conversions and things are no longer linear, though. You are gonna have to lay out all the classes and all the options, over time, to see what's going on; more like a smorgasbord. Lots of opportunities for a blivet. Keep the cards and letters coming.

Ciao. John

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: DBS
Very minor typos - Ship #1470 has no space between Ansyu and Maru. Ditto 1483, 1389.
3179 should be Ramillies.

Easy to fix. Will do so. Thanks.

[Mynok]

Going from memory...I'll update tonight if I got this spelling wrong...but one of the magic task forces has a TF name that differs from the destination base name....Narphodine or something like that.

I believe the TF is on Hainan or at Saigon.

[Bladesss]

Question on Ship repair. BB Maryland is my most damaged shp at Pearl. Port Damage is 0. No other ships have been assigned for repairs
With keeping the ship ready it estimates 157/132/69/65 days depending on priority. Pierside is 132/60/47/40, Repair Ship is 166/88/71/55.
 
All those seem reasonable, but when I put it in the shipyard I am getting 328/327/326 days to repair.
 
14.3.2 says " Ships may be repaired and will consume repair capacity, in the following decreasing order: 1) Shipyard Repair, 2) Repair Ship Repair, 3) Pierside Repair, and 4) Readiness Repair "
So I thought the shipyard was the best choise to repair a badly cripples ship. But it is coming out the worsest by far. The other choises seem to make sence.
The Maryland is 32K tonnage and that should fit per 14.3.2.1 for Pearls repair yard of size 72. Maryland is Flood 85 (56 major), System 41, Eng 10
I put BB Colorado into the Seattle Shipyard and it will be repaired faster as I expected.

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: Bladess

Question on Ship repair. BB Maryland is my most damaged shp at Pearl. Port Damage is 0. No other ships have been assigned for repairs
With keeping the ship ready it estimates 157/132/69/65 days depending on priority. Pierside is 132/60/47/40, Repair Ship is 166/88/71/55.

All those seem reasonable, but when I put it in the shipyard I am getting 328/327/326 days to repair.

14.3.2 says " Ships may be repaired and will consume repair capacity, in the following decreasing order: 1) Shipyard Repair, 2) Repair Ship Repair, 3) Pierside Repair, and 4) Readiness Repair "
So I thought the shipyard was the best choise to repair a badly cripples ship. But it is coming out the worsest by far. The other choises seem to make sence.
The Maryland is 32K tonnage and that should fit per 14.3.2.1 for Pearls repair yard of size 72. Maryland is Flood 85 (56 major), System 41, Eng 10
I put BB Colorado into the Seattle Shipyard and it will be repaired faster as I expected.

The key is the major damage. That can only be repaired with the shipyard. So the longer time for shipyard includes all that major damage repair. The shorter times for the other modes will fix all the minor damage, but still leave the major damage.