Surface combat - still needs some tweaking

[tigercub]

To me it not so much about the battles they are looking ok in the most part,But the range there forced to fight at,it just needs some tweaking to stop them closing to point blank to much.[8D]

Tiger!

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: pompack

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Totoh, M. crosses the 'T'

Something kinda funky about this.  Allies spot the Japanese 6,000 yards before engagement opens, but form up so that the Japs will have every advantage when it occurs?   That just isn't right....

Mike:

First, I think that this was an addition added at the beta patch: something like if US radar detects first in 1942 there is a chance (large) that they will close to visual range "just to make sure"

Second, recall Friday the Thirteenth (Third Savo aka First Guadalcanal). IIRC, Helena detected the Japanese at 12k+ yards but Callaghan (in not only his first battle but nearly his first squadron command) was flying his flag in a different CA (San Francisco) which had the older radar. He either didn't hear the first reports from Helena (or didn't believe them) and continued on in a (more or less) straight line until his lead DD almost collided with the Japanese DD screen.

Until the CIC was invented, installed in some major units, the tracking procedures worked out, and the senior officiers trained in what radar could do this was not an uncommone result. Of course after that it took a while to educate the operators and especially the senior officiers into what radar could not do (ref The Battle of the Pips).


Also, until there was come confidence that all ships could track all other ships (CIC and SG radar again), the US always used a single column formation that was primarily aimed at reducing Blue-on-Blue encounters. If everyone followed in the wake of the ship ahead, then anyone seen off to the side was an enemy (unless of course the line kinked a bit or a ship dropped out of line due to damage, e.g. Atlanta at First Guadalcanal)

Just an aside here, the one thing I have not seen is any naval fratricide in these battles. At least a third of the Solomons battles had examples of one side or the other firing on their own ships.

All true..., but except for 1st Guadalcanal, the US commander usually altered his course to cross the "T" of the oncoming Japanese in these circumstances. He still might be "suprised" as Japanese optics often allowed them to obtain visual sighting 1st even when US lookouts knew where to look..., but he would generally be in a favorable position.

By 1943, US radar had advanced to the point where radar-controlled gunnery could be effective and the Japanese position became a good deal worse.

[kirk23_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

One for the JFBs...

--------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Rabaul at 106,125, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Asashio
DD Michishio
DD Arashio
DD Umikaze
xAKL Eishin Maru, Shell hits 2

Allied Ships
PT-111
PT-114, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-115, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-120, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PT-121, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
PT-122, Shell hits 1
PT-128
PT-142, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-143, Shell hits 1, and is sunk



Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF suspends unloading operations and begins to get underway
Reduced sighting due to 71% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 71% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-143 at 12,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-121 at 12,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-120 at 12,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-115 at 12,000 yards
PT-114 sunk by DD Arashio at 12,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-111 at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-128 at 10,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-120 at 10,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-115 at 10,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-111 at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-142 at 8,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-128 at 8,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-122 at 8,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-120 at 8,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-115 at 8,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-111 at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-143 at 7,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-128 at 7,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-120 at 7,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-115 at 7,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-111 at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
PT-143 engages DD Arashio at 4,000 yards
PT-128 engages DD Michishio at 4,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-122 at 4,000 yards
PT-120 engages DD Arashio at 4,000 yards
PT-115 engages DD Michishio at 4,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-111 at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-143 at 2,000 yards
DD Michishio engages PT-128 at 2,000 yards
PT-121 sunk by DD Asashio at 2,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-120 at 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-111 at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-142 at 3,000 yards
DD Michishio engages PT-143 at 3,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-120 at 3,000 yards
DD Michishio engages PT-111 at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
PT-142 engages DD Umikaze at 2,000 yards
PT-143 sunk by DD Arashio at 2,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-122 at 2,000 yards
PT-120 engages xAKL Eishin Maru at 2,000 yards
PT-115 sunk by DD Asashio at 2,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-111 at 2,000 yards
PT-142 engages DD Michishio at 2,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-142 at 2,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-122 at 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-120 at 2,000 yards
PT-111 engages xAKL Eishin Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-122 at 2,000 yards
DD Michishio engages PT-122 at 2,000 yards
PT-142 sunk by DD Asashio at 2,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages PT-111 at 2,000 yards
Wescott, R.F. orders Allied TF to disengage
DD Umikaze engages PT-111 at 2,000 yards
DD Michishio engages PT-122 at 2,000 yards
DD Asashio engages PT-120 at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-128 at 8,000 yards
DD Arashio engages PT-122 at 8,000 yards
DD Michishio engages PT-120 at 8,000 yards
DD Michishio engages PT-111 at 8,000 yards
Task forces break off...


My poor PT boats crash the party where unloading is going on at night - and get the slap.

I feel that this about right for ww2 naval combat 12,000 yds at night,here we have Destroyers engaging pt boats at 12,000 yds,and yet there are a great many surface battles fought with Battleships and other heavy units fighting at 1 or 2,000 yds at night,this is not just stupid but totally rediculous,if anything it should be the Battleships and other heavy units fighting at 12,000 yds and the destroyers + pt boats fighting at 2 or 3,000 yds.[:-]

[Dili]

I feel that this about right for ww2 naval combat 12,000 yds at night,here we have Destroyers engaging pt boats at 12,000 yds,and yet there are a great many surface battles fought with Battleships and other heavy units fighting at 1 or 2,000 yds at night,this is not just stupid but totally rediculous,if anything it should be the Battleships and other heavy units fighting at 12,000 yds and the destroyers + pt boats fighting at 2 or 3,000 yds.

I agree. Maybe that is already the PT nerfing in action.

[tigercub]

ORIGINAL: tigercub

1,000 yards!! (Reduced visibility due to Rain with 0% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Rain and 0% moonlight: 1,000 yards )
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
It seems fair under this weather but i would not want to see it time and time again.

Tiger!

And after testing some battles it is happening time and time again navel combats in poor weather are starting at 1,000 yards.

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: tigercub

ORIGINAL: tigercub

1,000 yards!! (Reduced visibility due to Rain with 0% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Rain and 0% moonlight: 1,000 yards )
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
It seems fair under this weather but i would not want to see it time and time again.

Tiger!

And after testing some battles it is happening time and time again navel combats in poor weather are starting at 1,000 yards.

Those are some serious "outies"!!! [:D]

[John Lansford]

Yes, I agree that there's way too many of these "poor visibility 0% moonlight" 1000 yd range naval battles showing up.  I just had another one of those where the Allies showed up early and stayed for the whole party...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 1,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      CS Chiyoda, Shell hits 14,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      DD Sagiri
 
Allied Ships
      CL De Ruyter
      CL Tromp
      DD Vampire, Shell hits 3,  on fire
      DD Vendetta
      DD Banckert
      DD Van Nes
      DD Witte de With
 
 
 
Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 32% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 32% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Harada, Kaku crosses the 'T'
CL De Ruyter engages CS Chiyoda at 1,000 yards
DD Vampire engages CS Chiyoda at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
DD Sagiri engages DD Vampire at 2,000 yards
DD Banckert engages CS Chiyoda at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Banckert engages CS Chiyoda at 3,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages CS Chiyoda at 3,000 yards
Task forces break off...
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 1,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Minekaze, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
      PB Tama Maru #5, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
      xAK Keiyo Maru, Shell hits 10,  heavy fires
 
Allied Ships
      CL De Ruyter
      CL Tromp
      DD Vampire
      DD Vendetta
      DD Banckert
      DD Van Nes
      DD Witte de With
 
 
 
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 42% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 42% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
DD Minekaze engages DD Vampire at 1,000 yards
DD Minekaze engages DD Banckert at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
DD Minekaze engages DD Banckert at 2,000 yards
DD Minekaze sunk by CL De Ruyter at 2,000 yards
DD Vampire engages xAK Keiyo Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Tama Maru #5 sunk by CL De Ruyter at 2,000 yards
DD Banckert engages xAK Keiyo Maru at 2,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 1,000 Yards
 
Japanese aircraft
      no flights
 
Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses
 
Japanese Ships
      CS Chiyoda, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
      DD Sagiri
 
Allied Ships
      CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 1
      CL Tromp
      DD Vampire,  on fire
      DD Vendetta
      DD Banckert
      DD Van Nes
      DD Witte de With
 
 
 
Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 42% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 42% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Lacomble, E.E.B. crosses the 'T'
DD Banckert engages CS Chiyoda at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
CS Chiyoda sunk by CL Tromp at 2,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages DD Sagiri at 2,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 1,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Sawakaze, Shell hits 27, and is sunk
      PB Fumi Maru #3
      xAK Kazuura Maru, Shell hits 4,  heavy fires
 
Allied Ships
      CL De Ruyter
      CL Tromp, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy damage
      DD Vampire,  on fire
      DD Vendetta
      DD Banckert
      DD Van Nes
      DD Witte de With
 
 
 
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 42% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 42% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
CL Tromp engages DD Sawakaze at 1,000 yards
DD Sawakaze sunk by DD Banckert at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
DD Vendetta engages xAK Kazuura Maru at 2,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 1,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Kikuzuki, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
      xAK Hohuku Maru, Shell hits 4,  heavy fires
      SC CHa-22
 
Allied Ships
      CL De Ruyter
      DD Vendetta
      DD Banckert
      DD Van Nes
      DD Witte de With
 
Japanese ground losses:
      169 casualties reported
         Squads: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
         Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 6 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
      Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
 
 
 
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 42% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 42% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
CL De Ruyter engages DD Kikuzuki at 1,000 yards
DD Kikuzuki sunk by DD Van Nes at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages xAK Hohuku Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Banckert engages xAK Hohuku Maru at 2,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 1,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      PB Shonon Maru #10, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
      xAK Toa Maru, Shell hits 24, and is sunk
 
Allied Ships
      CL De Ruyter
      DD Vendetta
      DD Banckert
      DD Van Nes
      DD Witte de With
 
 
 
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 42% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 42% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
CL De Ruyter engages xAK Toa Maru at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages xAK Toa Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Witte de With engages xAK Toa Maru at 2,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages xAK Toa Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Vendetta engages xAK Toa Maru at 2,000 yards
PB Shonon Maru #10 sunk by CL De Ruyter at 2,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages xAK Toa Maru at 2,000 yards
xAK Toa Maru sunk by CL De Ruyter at 2,000 yards
xAK Toa Maru sunk by CL De Ruyter at 2,000 yards
Combat ends with last Japanese ship sunk...
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 1,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Sagiri
 
Allied Ships
      CL De Ruyter
      DD Vendetta
      DD Banckert
      DD Van Nes
      DD Witte de With
 
 
 
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 42% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 42% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Lacomble, E.E.B. crosses the 'T'
Range increases to 2,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Japanese Escort TF evades combat
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kuching at 58,88, Range 1,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      DD Yuzuki, Shell hits 33, and is sunk
      xAK Norway Maru, Shell hits 16,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
 
Allied Ships
      CL De Ruyter
      DD Vendetta
      DD Banckert
      DD Van Nes
      DD Witte de With
 
Japanese ground losses:
      619 casualties reported
         Squads: 21 destroyed, 32 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
         Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
 
 
 
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms  with 42% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 42% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
DD Yuzuki engages DD Witte de With at 1,000 yards
DD Yuzuki engages DD Witte de With at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 2,000 yards
DD Yuzuki engages DD Witte de With at 2,000 yards
DD Witte de With engages xAK Norway Maru at 2,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages DD Yuzuki at 2,000 yards
DD Yuzuki sunk by DD Witte de With at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages xAK Norway Maru at 3,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages xAK Norway Maru at 3,000 yards
Lacomble, E.E.B. orders Allied TF to disengage
DD Witte de With engages xAK Norway Maru at 3,000 yards
DD Witte de With engages xAK Norway Maru at 3,000 yards
Task forces break off...

It appears that the range routines are defaulting to 1000 yds whenever "thunderstorms" or "overcast" is forecast for the weather conditions.  Don't know if that is accurate or not, but it's definitely making these fights very bloody for one side or the other.

[tigercub]

I don`t think they default but there is a problem.

Tiger!

[Djordje]

The problem might be that with 0% moonlight and 1000 yards visibility all TFs in hex always find each other... While in reality they probably would not be aware of each other for the whole night.

[oldman45]

If they didn't find each other, I wonder how many posts there would be about "ships passing in the night"? [:)]

[John Lansford]

That is a point to consider; a hex is 40 miles across.  If you've got a small TF on a moonless night in the middle of a thunderstorm, finding anything should have been a miracle even with a working radar set.  I've sent PoW alone into a hex where an enemy TF was, though, and a surface battle broke out.  It appears that at the least that if two TF's are in the same hex during a turn/phase, a sighting will take place, when especially at night that shouldn't be automatic.  Has anyone seen a situation where a TF entered a hex with a known enemy TF and a sighting did NOT take place?

[medicff]

Another example of BB ineffectiveness. (Note I am not omitting any BB effective results [:D]) Also note SC vessels combat still after transport battles (although I am sure there is a chance factor)

Jap CL sunk by lucky critical hit magazine explosion (nice touch - esp if not your troops [;)])

Overall feeling better except for BB's - NO BB guns hit at all, hardly fired.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Ambon at 76,109, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Shiokaze, Shell hits 26, and is sunk
PC Kaki, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
xAK Myoko Maru, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
xAP Tsingtao Maru, Shell hits 17, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
CL Boise



Improved night sighting under 85% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 85% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 7,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 7,000 yards
CL Boise fires at DD Shiokaze at 7,000 yards
CL Marblehead launches Torpedoes at xAP Tsingtao Maru at 7,000 yards
CL Boise fires at xAK Myoko Maru at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages DD Shiokaze at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages DD Shiokaze at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAP Tsingtao Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages xAK Myoko Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Shiokaze sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAP Tsingtao Maru at 2,000 yards
PC Kaki sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Myoko Maru at 2,000 yards
xAP Tsingtao Maru sunk by CL Marblehead at 2,000 yards
xAP Tsingtao Maru sunk by CL Marblehead at 2,000 yards
Combat ends with last Japanese ship sunk...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Luganville at 120,150, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Hamakaze, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
TB Kari

Allied Ships
CA Louisville
CA Pensacola, Shell hits 1
CA Australia
CA Canberra
CL Leander
CL Achilles
CL Perth
CL Adelaide, Shell hits 1



Improved night sighting under 85% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 85% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
DD Hamakaze engages CA Canberra at 12,000 yards
CA Louisville engages DD Hamakaze at 12,000 yards
DD Hamakaze engages CL Adelaide at 12,000 yards
CL Leander engages DD Hamakaze at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
CA Canberra engages DD Hamakaze at 6,000 yards
DD Hamakaze engages CA Australia at 6,000 yards
CA Pensacola engages DD Hamakaze at 6,000 yards
DD Hamakaze engages CA Louisville at 6,000 yards
TB Kari engages CL Perth at 6,000 yards
DD Hamakaze engages CL Achilles at 6,000 yards
CA Canberra engages DD Hamakaze at 6,000 yards
TB Kari engages CA Canberra at 6,000 yards
TB Kari engages CA Pensacola at 6,000 yards
CL Adelaide engages DD Hamakaze at 6,000 yards
CL Perth engages DD Hamakaze at 6,000 yards
CL Achilles engages DD Hamakaze at 6,000 yards
Orita, Tsuneo orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 8,000 yards
CA Canberra engages DD Hamakaze at 8,000 yards
CA Canberra engages TB Kari at 8,000 yards
CA Pensacola engages DD Hamakaze at 8,000 yards
CL Adelaide engages DD Hamakaze at 8,000 yards
CL Perth engages DD Hamakaze at 8,000 yards
CL Achilles engages DD Hamakaze at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
CA Canberra engages DD Hamakaze at 10,000 yards
CA Australia engages TB Kari at 10,000 yards
CA Louisville engages DD Hamakaze at 10,000 yards
CL Leander engages DD Hamakaze at 10,000 yards
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ambon at 76,109, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 2
CL Kinu, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DD Arare, Shell hits 1
DD Fuyo, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
CL Boise, Shell hits 7



Improved night sighting under 85% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 85% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 12,000 yards
CL Boise fires at BB Kongo at 12,000 yards
CL Boise fires at CL Kinu at 12,000 yards
CL Boise fires at DD Fuyo at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
BB Kongo engages CL Boise at 7,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages CL Kinu at 7,000 yards
DD Fuyo engages CL Boise at 7,000 yards
CL Boise engages DD Arare at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
BB Kongo engages CL Boise at 3,000 yards
CL Boise engages CL Kinu at 3,000 yards
DD Fuyo engages CL Boise at 3,000 yards
CL Boise engages DD Arare at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
CL Kinu engages CL Boise at 6,000 yards
CL Kinu sunk by CL Boise at 6,000 yards
CL Boise engages DD Fuyo at 6,000 yards
CL Boise engages DD Arare at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages BB Kongo at 10,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages DD Fuyo at 10,000 yards
DD Arare engages CL Boise at 10,000 yards
Task forces break off...

[John Lansford]

I got one of those lucky magazine hits when I sent Portland and two DD's in to Wake Island to shoot up the invasion force.  Except, there were 3 CL's, 3 or 4 DD's several AMC's and some patrol/torpedo boats there, in addition to the transports!
 
Portland dashed in and traded shots with the CL's, while the DD's shot at the AMC's.  One of her 8" shells produced the "Massive Explosive Damage" announcement, and one of the CL's went down right then.  Fortunately for my little TF none of the enemy's torpedoes hit, but the 5" and smaller shells hitting Portland tore up her superstructure pretty badly.  The two DD's never got hit, but in addition to the CL sunk, both AMC's, a TB and several cargo ships were sunk too.
 
Then Lexington's airgroups showed up next morning and sank the other two CL's...

[henri51]

No one seems to have pointed out that the firt message in this thread was about a battle that took place at NIGHT. In the early war, the Japanese were much superior to the Americans at night fighting.

This is not to say that all the results are realistic (i have no idea), but one should not compare results from fleets fighting at night to fleets fighting during the day. In addition to poor visibiity at night, there are factors related to confusion etc that had decisive importance in real life, allowing for instance the US to win battles that they had no business of winning when the japanese mistook their ships for some of their own.[:'(]

Henri

[lazydawg]

Another reason for all of the short range combats is the weather. In every hex where there is combat there almost always seems to be a thunderstorm. Apparently the pacific war took place during Noah's flood.

[Panther Bait]

I think that part of the problem there might be that the weather in a hex is set for a whole phase, meaning if it's set to Thunderstorms for the night phase, it's raining for 12 hours straight. In reality of course, there typically is one or more thunderstorms that roll through during the phase lasting 15-45 minutes each, but collectively nothing like 12 hours of storm in any one location.

So I think in the game, thunderstorms in a hex mean that any combat in that phase will take place in thunderstorms, rather than the more realistic 10-20% of combats that happen to occur in the 1-2 hours during that phase that it actually rains.

t would probably take a code re-write to tweak that and put a modifier on the weather setting for the combat. Say that if the hex has thunderstorms, there is a 15% chance that weather for the combat in T-storms and an 85% change that it is Overcast (or some other weather type).

I hope that makes sense.