War in the West

[Blind Sniper]

I really hope not another IGO-UGO game...I would pass this one next time.

[Dili]

So what would be your idea? everyone plots their moves at same time?

[marty_01]

I'll definately buy it. Just cause there is enough stuff in WiTE to keep my juices flowing that would make me think that WiTW will rate at least a look and a PBEM or two. After which Ill either be addicted, or Ill use the game disk as frisbee for my dogs.

But it will be interesting to see how the 2:1 auto-retreat rule is handled in a War in the West game. As some have already pointed out the WiTE map scale may not be as well suited to the campaign in NW Europe. For example: The Normandy Lodgement at WiTE scale would be only one hex deep for a couple of turns after the invasion turn. Now imagine the Axis player pilling Panzer Lehr, Hitler Jugend, 21st Panzer Division and several infantry divisions against against the lodgement the turn of the invasion or the turn after.

[Zorch]

Yes, stacking limits will be an issue. I forget, did Grigsby's West Front game have the same scale as War in Russia / 2nd Front?

[Blind Sniper]

So what would be your idea? everyone plots their moves at same time?

Yes, I know that WEGO system is not a easy thing to do but I'm getting tired to play in this way (speaking about pc wargame of course).

WitP is a perfect example how this system can be funny to play and more challenging as well.
Also I remember Ageod American Civil War, two weeks per turn and still absolutely playable.

WitE is a fantastic game, very detailed and complicated but I noticed that something is missing, I discussed about that with other players and personally, I found what I think is missing for my taste: the simultaneity.
Initially is intriguing discover the right path, which attack will be more efficient or the best defence against a breakthrough, then I understand that surprise is a factor too important.
Thanks to good recon you know exactly where the units are, no way to do a probe attack or mask an encirclement, playing WitP or AACW there is a totally different feeling, your units can be intercepted or moved in a wrong direction, with IGO-UGO is almost impossible.

Said that, I think that WitE is a very good game but simply I don't like the design system decisions [:)]

[imberbe]

Several scenarios-campaign (or games) woud be better:

-West 40 : France, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg.
-Desert 40-43: Egypt, Libia, Tunis
-Victory 43-45: Italy (Sicily-Italy), France, Germany, etc

[Romdanzer]

Any news on how far along in any form or fashion War in the West is at all? i.e. something like when would the first dev-comments come or pre-development forum even maybe? Sometime in 2012 for these?

thanks in advance for any info!

Romdanzer

[Joel Billings]

We're working hard. First tests are underway of troops coming ashore in Sicily, air units flying from aifields built into the map (instead of airbase counters). We're still at a very early stage, but we're making progress. I would guess we won't be saying much about it for at least another month or two. We need to stay as focused as we can on putting things together and working out new systems. I don't have an ETA for you, but I'll try to give some info as we go along in development. Thanks for your interest.

[Michael T]

air units flying from aifields built into the map (instead of airbase counters

I like [:)]

[JamesM]

Strategic bombing will have to play a much bigger part in WitW than WitE due to presence of the 8th & 15th air forces and Bomber Command.  I feel that there should be an option for either the player or AI to control this option.

[JiminyJickers]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

War in the West (43-45) and War in North Africa are the next two games we will be working on. Eventually plan to link them all (that is the plan anyway).

That would be awesome, looking forward to it all.

[Ketza]

Really looking forward to this.

[Wild]

If the game has the same design philosophy of one sides hands being tied while the other has complete freedom then i cannot see myself purchasing this game,even though i own virtually ever other 2by3 game.

We must move to a system where both sides are treated equally and have the same flexability.

Don't mean to sound negative but tying one sides hands really ruins the fun of the game.

[2ndACR]

I would bet that War in the West will allow Germany almost complete control over production. Since The strategic bombing will be a major factor for the Allies. I would not be able to fathom how the game could be playable with a "fixed" production. Since the Allies would just bomb the factories to dust that produce the best weapons etc. Take out the Tiger factory, then the Panther factory and just continue working down the list.

Same as in WITP, since strategic bombing was a major factor hence why Japan has control over production.


I can see no other way to make the game playable otherwise.

[randallw]

Perhaps there could be less than 100% assurance for the Allied side that factory X is actually in city Z, and that aiming for factory X will end up hitting factory Y, or some such snafu possibilities.

[gradenko2k]

I think that might be an oversimplification of the strategic bombing campaign. I mean, the Allies knew about Schweinfurt and the effect it would have on the rest of German industry, but just because you'd like to target it doesn't mean you'll be able to take it out.

[Ketza]

The problem is with allied strategic bombing capalbilities is there were politics involved from both a military as well as civilian perspective.

Unless this is addressed in some way thats a lot of freedom a player would have that historically was not an option.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

The problem is with allied strategic bombing capalbilities is there were politics involved from both a military as well as civilian perspective.

Unless this is addressed in some way thats a lot of freedom a player would have that historically was not an option.

Penalties (VP points) for every bombing raid on a civilian center of population? So, there are VPs for the military victory and VPs for the moral victory. Both combine to give a total score.

Similarly, the Axis player could opt not to bomb London etc. in '40 or not to use the V weapons. Higher moral VP score.

Maybe the allies should be blocked from launching a strategic bombing campaign if the Axis has not bombed Allied cities?

Similar rules could apply in the Atlantic. Uboats attack 'all targets' for higher impact on the British economy and higher military VPs, but lower moral VPs, or they attack 'warships only' for lower military VPs and impact but higher moral VPs...

Just some ideas

[Flaviusx]

Actually, for Bomber Command, there would be penalties for NOT bombing civilian centers of population. Bomber Harris was all about "area" (i.e. terror) bombing.

Both Bomber Command and the 8. USAF strongly resisted implementing the transportation plan.

The Brits would strongly prefer night bombing to day bombing, the US the opposite. The US would be all gungho on daylight bombing of industrial targets even in the absence of fighter escorts for quite some time. (Only after taking some hard knocks was the need for escorts understood.)

Neither air force was terribly fond of saturation bombing to assist the ground forces a la Cobra and resisted being used in this fashion.

And this is just the military politics without taking into account civilian political issues.

So, yeah. It's complicated and it will be interesting to see how this is all managed. Maybe via APs.

[Q-Ball]

Should be interesting!

I am wondering how the US Army will be modelled compared to WITE. I suspect the US will have Corps HQs, SU attachments directly to divisions.

But will the US Army have ELITE units in the WITE sense?

US Army didn't have any "elite" designation per se. Maybe certain divisions can quality for a "Veteran" status, like guards, but just called "Veteran" instead. IRL, certain units probably fit this category, like 1st Infantry, 4th Armored, 2nd Infantry, among others.

Only the Paras would be "Veteran" out of the box