Current Human vs Human 41 campaign games

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Correction: the German effectives numbers are 200k higher. The Sovs 1100k up on men, 2400 down on AFVs, and nearly 10k up on Aircraft.

No idea why my infantry is so high. Maybe because i retook kharkov in early winter? That gives me more manpower to build right? Though i am down leningrad since before winter too.

For awhile at my lowest i was at about 2.5 million men. I was less then the german army but since winter my army has steadily built up thankfully. Most units are still only at 50-60% on TOE. So looks like my units still need rifleman

[Flaviusx]

If you've got Kharkov and all those cities in the Donbas, that's a lot of manpower, and will more than offset losing Leningrad.

This is one of the reasons that Leningrad isn't as much of a slam dunk as a lot of players believe. The stuff in the south adds up.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: raizer

the sov aircraft #'s are insane-getting them all to airbases and just flinging them at the axis might be a game in itself

most of them are antiquated I's. I put all the battered units in national reserve. Then i was a moron and though setting aviation commitment was like SU commitment. So i didn't hit move. So for 20 turns i had those units just sitting in the reserve. heh.

I finally figured it out last turn after joel told me i'm an idiot. I've since fixed a lot of my air units so we should se more air attrition perhaps.

But i probably only have 3k worth of nice places (yak,lagg,mig) And that's assuming anyone considers the mig-3 a decent plane.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The early tank corps are pretty fragile. Use them with some care. The 42a TOE for them is complete crap compared to the later ones. You need to fit them out with attachments to make up for this, including at least 1 tank battalion, they are low in tank strength initially.

They're pretty good against Axis minors and overextended panzers early on. Give them some easy wins to train them up. They'll start off with disappointingly low CVs (3-4) but in a few months you might be able to tease out some 9+ point monsters.

oh good thing you told me i was doing 2 sapper & 1 arty rvgk. But i guess 2 sapper + 1 tank battalion?




Btw i've built a few arty battalions are they effective when used as on board units? Or better to keep arty as SU?

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

If you've got Kharkov and all those cities in the Donbas, that's a lot of manpower, and will more than offset losing Leningrad.

This is one of the reasons that Leningrad isn't as much of a slam dunk as a lot of players believe. The stuff in the south adds up.

Yea though the finns are no slouches. I had no luck in winter or since with hitting them. Though i've killed a few thousand of them. I figure the easiest way to beat the finns is just to keep attacking and killing finns then eventually they won't have the manpower to replace their losses. Then they will begin to get fragile.

[Flaviusx]

I go with 1 motorcycle regiment, 1 tank battalion, and 1 sapper. 2 tank battalions and 1 sapper is a good alternative if you don't like motorcycle regiments or don't have them. Or you could substitute an AT or AA regiment for the motorcycle battalion.

2 sappers is overkill. 1 is enough to give them some minimal digging ability, but they aren't mean for assaulting fortifications and will get seriously banged up doing so, and the only reason I can think of giving any corps more than a single sapper is if you intend to assault forts with them. I could see giving rifle corps 2 sappers (but even for them I go with 1.)

Artillery cannot be attached.

[bwheatley]

ahh well that explains. Do the on board arty units have a ranged attack? or still only one hex? Trying to wrap my head around how i'd place arty units on the board to help with an attack. I wouldn't want to replace a whole stack of combat troops with arty so maybe 1 arty unit per stack?

[Flaviusx]

On board artillery units can fire two hexes away. You do not get artillery divisions as builds until December 42. You do get some artillery brigades earlier on. I personally don't find the early artillery brigades worth building, with the very major exception of the heavy rocket arty brigades.

[karonagames]

hehe please tell ara that. He feels it's all doom and gloom. We're really only going to play out to 53 so that you guys can get your numbers. He's still pissed off (and i agree rightly so) about his winter losses from units in good fortifications.

I'm hopeful that he'll start the 42 offensive and smash through my forts and then we'll keep playing.

But he is going to start 1942 campaign stronger than than the current 1942campaign start.

If he doesn't want to carry on, I will see if I can find the time to take over. No promises.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

On board artillery units can fire two hexes away. You do not get artillery divisions as builds until December 42. You do get some artillery brigades earlier on. I personally don't find the early artillery brigades worth building, with the very major exception of the heavy rocket arty brigades.

OH SWEET. So they will be allowed to be selected as part of a delib attack? WOW thats going to be pimp.

Yea i just built the arty brigades as a wtf are these moment.

I should have listened and not used AP for my aircraft i could have had the rest of my tank corps created by then

[Flaviusx]

If you've got two dozen tank corps that's a good figure. I myself don't build more than that. My ideal mobile force consists of about 24 TC, 12 Mech, and 16-18 cav corps. It's possible to overmechanize the Red Army and that carries its own problems. Rifle corps are in some respects the real backbone of the Red Army.

[abulbulian]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

hehe please tell ara that. He feels it's all doom and gloom. We're really only going to play out to 53 so that you guys can get your numbers. He's still pissed off (and i agree rightly so) about his winter losses from units in good fortifications.

I'm hopeful that he'll start the 42 offensive and smash through my forts and then we'll keep playing.

But he is going to start 1942 campaign stronger than than the current 1942campaign start.

If he doesn't want to carry on, I will see if I can find the time to take over. No promises.

Here's where I think this idea I'm going to start 1942 better than the scenario is a illusion:

Another side effect from the extreme blizzard issue in defending is that my opponent, smartly, attack me each of the 13 turns of blizzard and my units (inf) took SERIOUS moral lose. So rather than going into spring 42 with high moral... which the German army had (even in 43-44 surprisingly was still high) my moral is SHOT and will be a large factor in my attacks attacks against well fort'd and deep sov lines being almost futile. I'll never get through his lines and be able to use my mobile units as I should in some success in 42.

I think, without the game in front of me, my avg German inf moral is about 60. Some units I know were as low as high 50's. That seems horrible. I'll look at the WitE scenario for Case Blau when I get home and see that that appears to be.

Wasn't even thinking about this moral issue. But essential the blizzard turns have destroyed both the moral and exp of my inf units for starting spring 42. I'll double check these #'s when I get home later.

I think once my attacks start, you'll all be able to see how bad it is for axis when the sov are able to create 3-4 deep lines with fort lvl 3-4 units. I did some tests and even as bwheatley suggest his units weak (no sure buying all that).. but a 2-4 CV unit in a fort 3 can hold up against some serious german attacks. Even when I saw the Germans win... the loses were very heavy. Slogging through a line as deep and fort'd as my opponent seems like a bad idea as I'll be playing into the attrition he wants with minimal gains. We'll see how it goes, maybe there's some miracle part to this I'm missing that will allow me to have some sort of push in 42.

[:(]

For all these axis optimists.. how about some idea how I can manage any success in 42 given the amount of sov troops on the lines and in such depth. I have some screen shots to prove the depth, bwheately tried to deceive me about it being 2-3 deep and rail units behind. But the screenies I have show no rail lines in that 3rd or 4th lines .. hehe .. Busted. It's ok, he's my opponent and I guess allows him to deceive me

[:'(]

Below is one section in south, except for extreme north most line is this depth and only getting deeper. Given this is recon I know more units there then showing up. I'm sure those cities are occupied. [:)]

[Flaviusx]

We've been talking over this morale/experience issue, for whatever it is worth Abul. No promises, but personally I think there may be an issue here.

[randallw]

The manual says that taking on replacements, to fill losses, shouldn't decrease a unit's experience that much.  It doesn't quite fit with the claims of Axis players saying their units are down to the 50's or 60's, probably from the high 80's or low 90's.

[abulbulian]

ORIGINAL: randallw

The manual says that taking on replacements, to fill losses, shouldn't decrease a unit's experience that much.  It doesn't quite fit with the claims of Axis players saying their units are down to the 50's or 60's, probably from the high 80's or low 90's.

The 'secret sauce' to my moral lose is the losing battles in the 13 turns of blizzard. Only a foo sov player would not be attacking the axis units EACH and every turn of blizzard.

hehe OH YEAH BABY
WHAMMY

bet nobody saw that coming... more fallout from the blizzard issues for units defending

[:'(]

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

hehe please tell ara that. He feels it's all doom and gloom. We're really only going to play out to 53 so that you guys can get your numbers. He's still pissed off (and i agree rightly so) about his winter losses from units in good fortifications.

I'm hopeful that he'll start the 42 offensive and smash through my forts and then we'll keep playing.

But he is going to start 1942 campaign stronger than than the current 1942campaign start.

If he doesn't want to carry on, I will see if I can find the time to take over. No promises.

Here's where I think this idea I'm going to start 1942 better than the scenario is a illusion:

Another side effect from the extreme blizzard issue in defending is that my opponent, smartly, attack me each of the 13 turns of blizzard and my units (inf) took SERIOUS moral lose. So rather than going into spring 42 with high moral... which the German army had (even in 43-44 surprisingly was still high) my moral is SHOT and will be a large factor in my attacks attacks against well fort'd and deep sov lines being almost futile. I'll never get through his lines and be able to use my mobile units as I should in some success in 42.

I think, without the game in front of me, my avg German inf moral is about 60. Some units I know were as low as high 50's. That seems horrible. I'll look at the WitE scenario for Case Blau when I get home and see that that appears to be.

Wasn't even thinking about this moral issue. But essential the blizzard turns have destroyed both the moral and exp of my inf units for starting spring 42. I'll double check these #'s when I get home later.

I think once my attacks start, you'll all be able to see how bad it is for axis when the sov are able to create 3-4 deep lines with fort lvl 3-4 units. I did some tests and even as bwheatley suggest his units weak (no sure buying all that).. but a 2-4 CV unit in a fort 3 can hold up against some serious german attacks. Even when I saw the Germans win... the loses were very heavy. Slogging through a line as deep and fort'd as my opponent seems like a bad idea as I'll be playing into the attrition he wants with minimal gains. We'll see how it goes, maybe there's some miracle part to this I'm missing that will allow me to have some sort of push in 42.

[:(]

For all these axis optimists.. how about some idea how I can manage any success in 42 given the amount of sov troops on the lines and in such depth. I have some screen shots to prove the depth, bwheately tried to deceive me about it being 2-3 deep and rail units behind. But the screenies I have show no rail lines in that 3rd or 4th lines .. hehe .. Busted. It's ok, he's my opponent and I guess allows him to deceive me

[:'(]

Below is one section in south, except for extreme north most line is this depth and only getting deeper. Given this is recon I know more units there then showing up. I'm sure those cities are occupied. [:)]

This mirrors what I saw in my last game against the AI on normal. First Panzer had weathered the winter just fine and dandy in Moscow (100% TOE at start of Spring Offensive) , and was leading the attack after breakthrough. With the '42 TOE change it contracted from 19 or 20 CV, extremely high morale and exp unit to an approx 11 CV unit, with the Panzer IVF's being all 50 exp.

And that's after the incredibly difficult breakthrough with formerly 15-17 CV Infantry units now being 8-11 in Spring 42 after winter replacements and some TOE changes. And as I'd noted elsewhere, those powerful infantry units were the backer in my linebacker defense, and had at least been in towns since late September to October 41 until being moved in prep for Spring offensive in May 42. My powerful Wehrmacht turned into a relative match for the Hungarians, and the 2 Hungarian armored divisions became a staple in the SouthEast offensive.

I retired from that game with 260+ VP points, as I'm compelled to play the most current beta.

Edit: Removed Albulbian's quoted image.

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

ORIGINAL: randallw

The manual says that taking on replacements, to fill losses, shouldn't decrease a unit's experience that much.  It doesn't quite fit with the claims of Axis players saying their units are down to the 50's or 60's, probably from the high 80's or low 90's.

The 'secret sauce' to my moral lose is the losing battles in the 13 turns of blizzard. Only a foo sov player would not be attacking the axis units EACH and every turn of blizzard.

hehe OH YEAH BABY
WHAMMY

bet nobody saw that coming... more fallout from the blizzard issues for units defending

[:'(]

Well you know i didn't attack the last 3 turns of blizzard But yea the first 10 turns i attacked with everything i had. But by T6 (of blizzard) i was at about 50% unready and it got continuously worse. So by the 10th blizzard turn i really just hit in the south since i had brought some new units up. Then after that it was pulling back expecting a big axis armored punch.

[raizer]

ORIGINAL: randallw

The manual says that taking on replacements, to fill losses, shouldn't decrease a unit's experience that much.  It doesn't quite fit with the claims of Axis players saying their units are down to the 50's or 60's, probably from the high 80's or low 90's.

no its from losing battles during the blizz not being filled with replacements...

[bwheatley]

ORIGINAL: Senno

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak



But he is going to start 1942 campaign stronger than than the current 1942campaign start.

If he doesn't want to carry on, I will see if I can find the time to take over. No promises.

Here's where I think this idea I'm going to start 1942 better than the scenario is a illusion:

Another side effect from the extreme blizzard issue in defending is that my opponent, smartly, attack me each of the 13 turns of blizzard and my units (inf) took SERIOUS moral lose. So rather than going into spring 42 with high moral... which the German army had (even in 43-44 surprisingly was still high) my moral is SHOT and will be a large factor in my attacks attacks against well fort'd and deep sov lines being almost futile. I'll never get through his lines and be able to use my mobile units as I should in some success in 42.

I think, without the game in front of me, my avg German inf moral is about 60. Some units I know were as low as high 50's. That seems horrible. I'll look at the WitE scenario for Case Blau when I get home and see that that appears to be.

Wasn't even thinking about this moral issue. But essential the blizzard turns have destroyed both the moral and exp of my inf units for starting spring 42. I'll double check these #'s when I get home later.

I think once my attacks start, you'll all be able to see how bad it is for axis when the sov are able to create 3-4 deep lines with fort lvl 3-4 units. I did some tests and even as bwheatley suggest his units weak (no sure buying all that).. but a 2-4 CV unit in a fort 3 can hold up against some serious german attacks. Even when I saw the Germans win... the loses were very heavy. Slogging through a line as deep and fort'd as my opponent seems like a bad idea as I'll be playing into the attrition he wants with minimal gains. We'll see how it goes, maybe there's some miracle part to this I'm missing that will allow me to have some sort of push in 42.

[:(]

For all these axis optimists.. how about some idea how I can manage any success in 42 given the amount of sov troops on the lines and in such depth. I have some screen shots to prove the depth, bwheately tried to deceive me about it being 2-3 deep and rail units behind. But the screenies I have show no rail lines in that 3rd or 4th lines .. hehe .. Busted. It's ok, he's my opponent and I guess allows him to deceive me

[:'(]

Below is one section in south, except for extreme north most line is this depth and only getting deeper. Given this is recon I know more units there then showing up. I'm sure those cities are occupied. [:)]

This mirrors what I saw in my last game against the AI on normal. First Panzer had weathered the winter just fine and dandy in Moscow (100% TOE at start of Spring Offensive) , and was leading the attack after breakthrough. With the '42 TOE change it contracted from 19 or 20 CV, extremely high morale and exp unit to an approx 11 CV unit, with the Panzer IVF's being all 50 exp.

And that's after the incredibly difficult breakthrough with formerly 15-17 CV Infantry units now being 8-11 in Spring 42 after winter replacements and some TOE changes. And as I'd noted elsewhere, those powerful infantry units were the backer in my linebacker defense, and had at least been in towns since late September to October 41 until being moved in prep for Spring offensive in May 42. My powerful Wehrmacht turned into a relative match for the Hungarians, and the 2 Hungarian armored divisions became a staple in the SouthEast offensive.

I retired from that game with 260+ VP points, as I'm compelled to play the most current beta.

Edit: Removed Albulbian's quoted image.

Interesting i wonder if that "Toe switch bug" is what's causing XP to drop like a rock for aras stuff?

Though him having crap morale probably doesn't help any either. I'll open up the 42 campaign now and post up so ara can compare when he gets home.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: raizer

ORIGINAL: randallw

The manual says that taking on replacements, to fill losses, shouldn't decrease a unit's experience that much.  It doesn't quite fit with the claims of Axis players saying their units are down to the 50's or 60's, probably from the high 80's or low 90's.

no its from losing battles during the blizz not being filled with replacements...

Not in my case. I had virtually decimated the AI's ability to make war, suffering very few attacks all through the winter. Yet my Infantry units still shrunk down, with a Panzer unit being decimated by the first TOE change in Spring 42. It had been 100% TOE and was leading the Spring offensive when it switched over, and went from 19-20 CV to 11....