Dispatches from OKH: Q-Ball (Axis) v. Von Beeanie (SOV)

[Mynok]

Give us a performance report on those kitchen sinks. They appear to help! [:'(]

[Flaviusx]

Level 2 forts won't cut it. This was the fatal flaw in his defense.

Need to get diggers in there by turn 3 or 4 at the latest and have them up to level 4s. The Soviet has to plan ahead and anticipate the German will try to cut off Leningrad and bar the back door entry. Even if the German never gets this far, you have to make plans for it and get started early to stop it, because it cannot be extemporized. Plan on 6 weeks to get to level 4 forts here at a minimum.

Trey made a similar error in his game against Bob back in beta, and Bob took advantage of it just as you did and got into Leningrad via this same exact back door.

[Klydon]

Excellent job on Leningrad.

As far as your question in the center. I would take advantage of the fact he came out to play. Because of the nature of his units, he can't advance very fast into enemy controlled territory. I would be very tempted to pull my infantry together in a more concentrated fashion, leaving some areas of the front uncovered (or you could break a division into regiments, etc) and then use what you can scrape up to try to pocket some more units and put them out of the war. With Leningrad being all but finished business, you will be able to shift some units in the next turn or two and really shift quite a few units after the Finns get in. Just don't forget to garrison the city or it will be partisan time in the area.

[cookie monster]

Looks like the Axis are doing fine so far.

Did he manage to evacuate the factories from Leningrad before you cut the rail?

[Q-Ball]

Turn 11: OKH Overview

Well, you saw the map of Army Group North, so things are going very well there.

Overall, the Reds have lost 1.8 Mil troops, so I am a bit behind in terms of hurting the Red Army. I have lost 1350 tanks, which strikes me as severe; my Panzers are all high-morale but tank depleted, with empty AFV pools all around. The Wehrmacht is down to 2500 tanks. Alot of my losses are crappy tanks, but they're better than an empty TOE slot.

Still I have made up alot of ground. If I can take Leningrad, it will be a good Barbarossa; releasing the Finns will pay dividends in the Winter.

Army Group Center: We beat back the Red Attack, and encircled/routed some units in the process. Unfortunately, that also stopped our forward progress. My spearheads are 8 hexes from Moscow, but it may as well be 80 with all the forts and units in my way.

[Q-Ball]

Turn 11, AGS:

My biggest problem in the south is logistics; each turn, my Panzers start with 15 or 20 MPs, unless I park them for a turn to accumulate fuel. Hazard of completely outrunning your railheads.

I finished-off 7 divisions that were surrounded this turn, and caught a couple more. We are still moving forward, but at an Infantry pace rather than Panzer pace. Still, I think I can get Kharkov, and hopefully the Donbas before Mud Season.

[Flaviusx]

Are you refueling by air?

[Altaris]

I am on Turn 11 of my PBEM as well, and facing the exact issue you describe with Panzer divs. My Medium Tank TOEs are in the 10-20% range almost all around. This really takes a lot of punch out of them, they become little better than motorized divisions at that point. And apart from 2 panzer corps in AGC which took a bad beating from counterattacks, I haven't had lots of losses via combat. It's very problematic as I really need those panzers in tip-top shape for completing a few important pockets, and I'm not sure I can manage that. I'm at about 2.2 million Russians bagged, and I don't see how I could reasonably have pulled off many more at this stage, so I'm also worried about how much I can actually take out between now and mud. I stand to get a good amount from a huge pocket in the north (from a wide swing east of Lake Ilmen, I've now cut the rail line and only a few hexes from meeting up with the Finns), but I'm worried about whether I have enough strength and time to actually clear that Leningrad pocket before Turn 17.
 
The only thing I think I really did "wrong" was letting my panzers roam well ahead of rail lines for a full 11 turns now. However, there's never been a turn where I could particularly afford to spare the panzers to move back and get some rest. And it seems excessive that I'm seeing Panzer losses on par with what the historic German army had in late November, especially considering that I'm doing a fair bit better.
 
BTW, my losses in tanks have reached around 2K. I think the reason mine are higher is that I got absolutely brutalized one turn for having some Panzers up against a front of strong Soviet units, they counterattacked and wiped out about 60% of 2 corps tanks in one turn! That too seems excessive, and makes panzers very hard to manage against a well prepared Soviet player. The Germans absolutely have to take risks with the panzers if they want any hope of even historical success in 1941, but if you aren't careful and leave them too far forward, the Soviets can absolutely demolish these crucial elements of your forces.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Are you refueling by air?

Yes, but that doesn't seem to be enough. I haven't figured out how to use Level bombers for this; even at the beginning of the turn, and clicking on airbase directly, they won't airdrop. But yes, I do airdrop.

I would love to know if I am not doing something right, or not building RR fast enough, or maybe I'm just outrunning my supplies. I'm pretty deep in Russia for 12 turns.

Turn 12: OKH Overview

We started the turn by liquidating 8 pocketed divisions from the Army Group Center excursion. We are still, though, pretty short in terms of hurting the Reds, with only 2.1 mil Red losses so far.

Von Beanie evacuated several divisions from Leningrad via the last remaining port, effectively conceding it. There are still 6 weak divisions there, but that's just a rearguard to force me to clean-up. I haven't run the whole turn, but I already pushed over Osinovets easily, so Leningrad is definitely toast.

I wanted to show a tactical of Von Beanie's strategy. He is doing a modified Comrade Robinsky, clearly trading space for time. His strategy is designed above all else to preserve Red Army strength. I think he figures he can use this strength to take back lost territory in the Winter. Maybe he's right, though I think Leningrad will be permanent.

Here is a summary of his strategy that he sent.

If you use your recon you can see I'm already building a line of forts at the limit of your advance near Voronezh and Rostov. That's just beyond your maximum supply range in perfect weather. If you want to spend the forces you can still take Kharkov, Stalino, Orel, Kursk and everything in those areas. At the same time I'll also predict you will never take a hex of Moscow, Voronezh, Tula or Rostov in 1941. I'm preserving plenty of force to throw in if needed. Some of those forces are already training for the winter offensive in the Volga Military District. "

He's completely right when it comes to logistical limits, against virtually no resistance it's pretty tough to get to Rostov. He's also right about Moscow and Tula, they are beyond reach for sure. I am about to halt the drive on Moscow, because the units there are pretty spent.

Anyway, check out the shot. This is well-designed for force preservation; pretty tough to kill Reds with this set up, no?

[Altaris]

BTW, I think your approach to Leningrad is the best one. A good drive straight up through Pskov to Leningrad should arrive in force by Turn 7 or 8. That Light Woods hex, while not easy to take, especially with lvl 3-4 forts behind a major river, is probably the easiest route to cut off Leningrad. With enough support units and alternating attackers, I think it's also fairly tough for the Soviet player to ensure it doesn't fall. Might take 4-5 turns to really get all the forts down enough to breach a well dug-in defense, but that's still only pushing out to Turn 12-13.
 
The real plus to this approach, IMO, is that if it fails, you haven't put AGN in a predicament. Trying to drive on the ports on eastern Lake Lagoda or cutting on the east flank of Lake Ilmen just extends that line out waaaay too far, and in really bad swamp/heavy wood terrain to boot. I'm seeing that in my PBEM where I went on a wide right hook around Lake Ilmen. I think in my case I'll manage to link up to the Finns, but it was very touch and go, and still not a lock. Should it fail, I have to fall waaaay back on AGN's fronts, as I haven't advanced past the Narva and Pskov lines on the other AGN flanks.

[2ndACR]

You need to shift right click on the unit while in the air drop window. That will open the screen with all available a/c. Then just click away till you reach the ones you want. Lower right hand corner of that screen you will see "fuel" in blue, that can be changed to supply, located right above the tonnage count.

If you do it right, you can drop 500 tons of fuel.

[2ndACR]

No, you have 1941 infantry, you can crush those stacks. But you will need to mass to do it. Put 2 stacks of 3 together and your infantry will destroy him.

Or just use your armor to sweep in behind him and block a retreat and kill 3 units each time.

Always remember, until Dec 1941, your infantry are king. They can defeat anything.

[raizer]

and dont drop supplies-drop gas.  You have to select gas in the lower right

[Flaviusx]

I don't like that defense von Beanie is using in the south at all. He's giving up ground for no good reason. The moment German armor shows up, those stacks with gaps are just hostages to fortune. Not sure what the defensive scheme accomplishes. He would actually be better off running straight to the German infantry and laying down a carpet defense. They would be under no threat of encirclement and get some forts laid down.

Furthermore, I would positively, absolutely welcome a fight with the German armor right now. Those guys are seriously overextended and probably quite fatigued. If Q-ball wants to throw them into the teeth of a carpet defense, so much the better: counterattack and grind them. See Notenome's AAR for an example of how this is done.

Q-ball actually needs to pull the panzers out of the line and rest and refit them at this stage and set himself up for an HQ buildup later on.

[raizer]

its called the "stacks with gaps" [:D]  and its in open terrain...not good

[CharonJr]

Your level bombers might still be damaged from the T1 bombings, try setting the % to fly a bit lower and look if some will show up. Most likely their numbers are still too depleted to fly at higher %.

[Klydon]

Got to agree with Flav on resting the panzers at some point. You just have to. I have seen people try to run them every turn straight without a break and they pretty much get trashed. Remember that historically, PG2 and PG3 took 2-3 weeks to "rehabilitate" in August before cranking things up again. Infantry, I would look to continue to move up to close to contact. (Perhaps don't put them into contact as it uses more movement and also being next to the enemy means your fatigue and such does not go down as fast). The other thing is trying to get reorganized and stuff back in supply enough to make another good lunge to capture quite a few Russian troops.

Von Beanie makes some pretty bold statements imo on what you won't be able to take. Considering of all the cities he listed, the Germans only took Rostov and held it for a week before retreating, I would not worry about that part of it. The big thing for you is taking what you think you can hold within a reasonable degree and setting up for both the winter and also what you will attempt next spring/summer. There is plenty of fighting left to do and consider that you have done well on casualties so far. Remember that the Russians lost over 600k at Kiev and another 600k or so when Operation Typhoon opened up and those two battles are hard to make happen in this game because most Russians will avoid that type of battle. You can still crack lines and encircle a lot of troops yet and with the Finns coming in, I wonder how the Svir river line defense looks like for the Russians.

[Q-Ball]

Turn 12: More Updates

The advice here was good, and I was thinking of halting most Panzers. There is no sense burning fuel moving 3-4 hexes when the Infantry can clear that, and allow the Panzers to accumulate fuel.

I didn't know that about dropping fuel, good to know. I wish I'd known that sooner! Probably cost me a bit, though I've made good progress.

I am not posting maps, because progress was limited. But I have 4 solid turns after this one (the last clear turn for clean-up), and need to plan next steps.

In the NORTH, we took a couple hexes to close on the Volkhov, and also took the port around Leningrad. I anticipate freeing the Finns by Turn 14. My objectives before winter are:
1. Establish line along the Volkhov, including taking Novgorod
2. Bring the FINNS down to man the line as far as they can; this will free-up a few divisions as reserves. It also secure Leningrad area, because the Finns in Winter are very strong.
3. Push closer or into the Valdai Hills; I need to find some good terrain to defend in the Winter

In the CENTER, I have halted about 8 hexes short of Moscow. I am fueling Pz Gp 3, probably for a push NORTH to take Rhzev, and close on the Valdai Hills.

Pz Gp 2 will advance on OREL. The tanks here are resting and building supplies.

In the SOUTH, we are making a major attack on Kharkov. In another week, the city will be isolated, and either Von Beanie will have to withdraw or leave troops to die.

Pz Gp 1 has a Corps on HQ BUILDUP east of Dnepropetrovsk. They are going to push for the Donbas cities, which I hope to reach by Winter. I doubt I can hold them all winter, but they make a great redoubt.

I need to start looking at Winter Defense Lines, and methods, but I feel alot better knowing I have a little Finnish support up north.

[janh]

Perhaps right, too quick to Leningrad to dig in.  Elsewhere, the AGS strategy was very sound and paid off.  Very impressive. Kharkov should be possible as well, and maybe some bigger prizes (pockets) since the Reds come out to play. 

Are the mech and armored units in Leningrad still necessary, or could you send them to Moscow and continue with an infantry/artillery effort?  If you moved additional strong armor to Moscow now, I think your opponent might get nervous and make more mistakes you could exploit.  The threat to Moscow must look grave to him without knowing the stat of your units. Could you post some stat screens of your panzer divs, and platform losses?

[Q-Ball]

Turn 13, 9/11/41:

OVERALL: I haven't finished the turn yet, but we accomplished a few things this turn.

In the NORTH, we mopped-up Leningrad, and freed the Finns. We attacked successfully across the Volkov near Novgorod, isolating Novgorod, which should fall next turn. With that, I will complete my Campaign north of Lake Ilmen, and dig in, with the Finns manning most of the Volkhov line, and part of 18th Army around Novgorod.

The rest of 18th Army, and all of 16th Army, will move south of Lake Ilmen, and attack EAST. The main objective is to gain better defensive terrain for the winter (the Valdai Hills), and create some space in case my line completely collapses. Any attempt to releive Leningrad will probably focus on this area, as the Finns should be able to hold the Volkhov without much problem.

Pz Gp 4 I am starting to pull off the line; they will go south of Lake Ilmen to support that drive, and prepare to go into Winter Quarters. I will probably keep them in this area, as I know Von Beanie would like Leningrad back, so I expect heavy attacks up here.

I expect to have a few extra divisions available from up here, for other sectors of the front which will need it. I will probably transfer a Corps from 18th Army all the way down to the Ukriane, where I am short on Landsers. The FINNS will help alot to freeing up some guys!