German Folly 2ndAcr (GE) vs Tullius (Reds)

[2ndACR]

Turn 6 Central Zone 1

And another big slugging fest. I will have to rotate 3rd Panzer off the line next turn to recover, they are showing the strain and I can let the infantry carry the load now.

[2ndACR]

Turn 6 Central Zone 2

Here we have a foot hold across the river. Infantry crossed the river and will start whipping tail next turn to clear the way. I expect a serious carpet to appear. But 2nd Panzer is rested and almost full load of supplies, ammo and fuel. If I can make some progress, will have to decide whether to go north or south with them.

[2ndACR]

Turn 6 Southern Zone 1

Here 6th Army has reached Kiev and you can see my toe hold over the river with 90% of my Panzer units waiting to cross next turn.

17th Army is strung out all the way to the Romanian border. Will take a few turns until they re-enter action.

2 Motorized Div and the Romanian Armor screening against a slashing advance.

[PeeDeeAitch]

Now sweep north from 1st panzer and south from 2nd panzer and bag them all!

[2ndACR]

Turn 6 Southern Zone 2

And finally we have 11th Army crawling along east.

He has maybe 2 div in Odessa. We will try to take it with the Romanians and 1 German Div. Hope I don't have to divert more.

Recon detects nothing blocking to Sevestopal. Did I hurt him that bad down here?

[2ndACR]

Turn 7

Rail heads finally close the distance in the north and in the Center zones. Down south, it is a completely different story. I have a very strong beach head because he pulled back from the river. But rail is not even to the river yet.

Here we have Northern Zone 1

I shifted a Panzer Corp up to the coast because recon showed nothing there, once they got there, he carpeted the entire area. But that is okay, and not very important to me. Once I have taken Talinan and the island, That Panzer Corps goes into rest and refit anyway.

[2ndACR]

Turn 7 North Zone 2

Here we are enlarging the Pskov area slowly. 2nd Army arrives on the scene. His front in the southern part of this zone is not nearly as strong. These are all post recon shots. I sent a Panzer Corp up here a couple turns ago because recon showed a weakness and the Central front was a carpet. Panzer Corps will not make great headway against a carpet that takes deliberate attacks to over come.

[2ndACR]

Turn 7 Central zone 1

Here we see the massed carpet all along the river. No big deal to me though. Moscow was never a target anyway. Unless he gave it to me. He is deep enough that there is no way infantry can blast a hole for armor to slip thru. So lack of armor here is not a huge concern to me.

[2ndACR]

Turn 7 Central Zone 2

Here 2nd Panzer Army is fully across the river. Now to enlarge the beach head and allow my infantry to cross over for the slog forward. I am still undecided on if I should send 2nd north or move them south into tank country.

[2ndACR]

Turn 7 South Zone 1

Here we see the massed pull back he has done. Not allot of troops in front of me. I think 6th Army will cross over and move north and east to link with AGC. I will pocket what I can, but will not be much. Not much down here anyway.

[2ndACR]

Turn 7 Southern Zone 2

Here we have all of 1st Panzer across the river. 17th Army finally starts to arrive on the scene. Rail is way behind, this is the problem with the Lvov pocket, it sets you behind schedule with rail repair 1-2 turns. I still have a 2nd Panzer Army Corps down here, they will slowly start to shift back towards the north side to help 6th Army link up with AGC.

He does not have the troops down here to stop me, slow me some, but not stop me. Not once my infantry comes fully on the line and can take over the front. Fuel and supply low across all 1st Panzer Army units. Once 17th crosses the river and takes the front, 1st Panzer comes off the line to rest a turn or 2.

[2ndACR]

Turn 7 11th Army front

Odessa is defended. Level 4 forts. I hope I do not have to shift Germans down to take it, but I think I might have to.

Other than that, there is nothing down here all the way to the choke point. I guess I hurt him worse than I thought or he shifted a bunch up north.

[2ndACR]

Overall, I expect a bunch of people are wondering what the heck is going on. So I will now say what my overall goal is.

Leningrad was never a true target, I have to hold his attention, so have to make a decent effort to advance.

Moscow was never a target either. That is one reason why I will shift armor away from the Center area.

My primary goal has been the south. I am going to spring forward and capture as many major cities as I can. Manpower and disrupt his resource flow. Serious thought is being given to shifting 2nd Panzer Army to the southern front to help out. If I thought I could make it, I would go for the oil, but rail is way too far behind for that. But hopefully, I can have a bunch of cities and 2+ population towns to winter in down here.

I am also torn though, I keep thinking about bringing 1st Panzer to the north side and come at Moscow from the south since very few forces face my southern forces. That would bypass his carpet defense he has laid in front of AGC.
 
I ask that everyone be careful in posts to the other AAR when asking questions etc. I usually do not reveal my overall plan due to the ease of a slip or question asked the wrong way.

If anyone has idea's, comments, feel free.

[bevans]

Well, it essentially matches Hitler's strategy, which is not meant to be an insult. Hitler was more often correct than his generals well into 1942. After that, one would be better to deviate from Hitler's strategy. The Germans can't win the war without oil and other resources - nor can anyone else. The south of Russia is where these are, therefore the south is where the war will be won. lost or drawn (though a draw is nominally an Axis victory). The Russians won't surrender if Moscow falls and the Germans will never hold it once the blizzards hit. Therefore a Moscow strategy is critically flawed and almost certainly doomed. Leningrad, on the other hand has some major upsides if taken, not lease the Finns bearing the brunt of the first winter's fighting up north. But a southern strategy is very viable and will be watched with interest.

[CharonJr]

Are you using 2 RR units on one line in the south? Otherwise supply will be a very huge issue there I think.

Personally I am a friend of a large southern focus, too, and while I agree about neglecting Moscow I would still throw everything at Leningrad since I think a winter without the Finns will be pure hell.

[Aussiematto]

I like the daring of it -- it's like 'get to Stalingrad before winter!'

I would definitely agree that you want to shift more armour down south - two Pz groups will give you great C&C; I'd add a third rail unit too - the one from AGN has probably done its job now and can get your supply lines working faster, especially if Odessa is going to take a while to fall.

He might have abandoned the Crimea but one option could be to try and isolate it from the east... if you can get good infantry (the mountain units probably) down over the Don south of Rostov you could be able to take advantage of the better weather down there towards the end of the year.

If you can create a large enough bulge to the east... even as far as Boguchar? it might buy you space to then use the panzers from south to north in 1942....

I am a northern front fan myself so will be fascinated to see how far you get.

[Adnan Meshuggi]

Can you hold such long frontline?
Can you crash his AGC-Defence
Is he strong enoug for counterattacks? I ask, cause if he is weak in the south, he should have the troops at other places. Can you hold in winter a front in the northern sector?
 
 

[Pipewrench]

Right there with you. A push to the south might just give you many encirclements with all that tank country offered. This will be a great experiment in using armour. Remember you are the scientist, mad maybe, but still the scientist.
 
[:)]
make that southern front come ALIVE!!!
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H3dFh6GA-A
 
 

[2ndACR]

Turn 8

What to say, whoops. I messed up and sent a Panzer Div 1 hex too far. Rescue will be next turn. Luckily, I have the entire 2nd Army right there.

I am almost to the end with my armor, they need a rest really bad. Soon, very soon.

[2ndACR]

Turn 8 Central zone

2nd Panzer Army swings north to open it up for my infantry to cross the river. Either he will pull back off the river or I will roll him up with my infantry. 2nd Panzer can still swing south within the next 2 turns or so. They had a nice little break and are the strongest I got.