Pelton vs Hoooper Grinding it out turn 70+

[molchomor]

Yes Soviet production is amazing, granted my only experience is against the Soviet AI where in my game Axis-Soviet production now is about equal, but that is only after holding Leningrad, Moscow, Tula, Stalingrad etc. ! Against a human (who arguably would protect these centers better) I guess you instead need to hit his ability to build troops via command points by killing off as many units as possible. It costs alot for a human to build corps.

[hfarrish]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Looking back on it building forts behind the River was a waste of time. I should have been building another row of level 3 forts behind the 2 to 3 rows I alrdy had.

The river will only be good if its not froozen anyways.

I am going to be getting a bump in production come 43 I hope it will bring up my troop numbers some other wise they only go up even during mud turns 10k with zero combat. I am using minor allies as much as possible in the front to keep the German loses to a min and only counter attacking with mech or panzer divisions.

I wouldn't assume the river line was a waste - You might want to consider a withdrawal there once snow returns, timing it so he doesn't catch up until mud. After another month or so of blizzard, with force levels where they are, your infantry may soon enter the ant realm, at which point you will be just be running for 145 straight turns (I've been there).

[KamilS]

Pelton

So in ten turns the SHC produced or received in reinforcements
1.6 million men, 35000 guns and 4200 tanks. More guns and tanks then the GHC has, lol! Hmm only 60% of the German Army heheh.
Looks like Russian production is about 3x the German, atleast during the last 10 turns.

Soviet production doesn't look right - Hooper lost quite a lot of factories.

Historically in '42 and '43 production was around 11k guns plus 7k mortars a month. You need to consider fact that only some mortars are counted as guns in WitE. There were 2k tanks produced a month and 2k planes (in '43 - 2,8k).

So Historically in 10 turns - 25k guns plus 16k mortars (all sorts, majority of which non countes as guns), 4,5k tanks and 4,5k planes.


Army figures are quite strange as well, especially when you consider fact that soviet army did have underaverage summer of '41.



Historically in nov '42:

Germans 2400 planes - Soviet 3100
Germans 3100 AFVs - Soviet 4900

Game

Germans 2000 planes - Soviet 15100
Germans 2000 AFVs - Soviet 5800


Am I German of just game fanboy?

[Peltonx]

The plane numbers are and have been way way higher then historical in allot of AAR's.

I am tring out the bomb his air fields every single turn to see if that helps, but from reading other peeps AAR it still be higher then historical.

The increase in troops was what amazed me the most, 1 mil deaths and still his army increased by 600k and the art is just plain nuts to.

but it is what it is.

As far as river line goes its not a waste just saying it be a huge tank battle vs inf blob at land bridge after mud season.

my inf are kinda usless now, hes got stacks and stacks of 20 to 30 Attack Cv units from north to south. So basicly even forts are usless because of 1v1 = 2v1.

The river will save me if I can hold him until then, atleast for a while.

Pelton

[wmcalpine]

Kamil,

Just checked and it seems that "guns" includes all mortars that are 82mm and higher. The only mortar that does not appear to be included as "guns" are the 50mm (though this may not be accurate as I only checked a few casualty reports). So maybe ~1/2 of the mortars count as guns (just a guess, I am unsure of how many 50mm mortars were produced versus 82mm, 120mm, etc).

Bill

[Peltonx]

Turn 85.

Down to 19k rifle squads with 600 damaged. I also have 630,000 in manpower pool so when mud hits I should regain some strength in infantry units.

Russian losses the last 5 turn 480,000 men, Guns 8000
German Losses the last 5 turns 280,00 men, Guns 9000

Russian OOB changes +212,000 men, Guns +9000
German OOB changes -250,000 men, Guns -3000

So in 5 turns the Russian lost 480,000 men and yet the army over all totals are up 212,000 so over 692,000 replasements were produced in 5 turns.
German loses were 280,000 and the over all total decreased 250,000 so only 30,000 replasedments were produced over 5 turns.

That seem really high to me. In 15 turns the Russian have suffered 1.5 million loses in men and yet the over all total increased by 1 million men.

Other then the massive Russian production Rifle squads are way down I am giving up 1 to 3 hexes now per turn all along front, I am still hoping to be holding the river line come mud season. The Russian army remains at 8 million dispite 1.5 ,,illion losses in 15 turn. Not sure what esle I can do.

[Peltonx]

AGC/N

[Peltonx]

AGC/S

[Peltonx]

AGS

[Peltonx]

OOB

[Peltonx]

dead stuff

[Klydon]

Heh.. down to 2.3 million. 30k replacements for 5 turns total just seems not right to me. How are your armaments, etc?

I have no idea on this since I have never really played a game consistently to this point as the Germans, but what about a big step back? He is just crushing you right now and pretty soon, there isn't going to be an German army at this rate. I think you are close to collapse as it is. Your guys need a break and a chance regain some strength. The other thing is him coming running after you will take some time and he should get worn down doing it and getting away from his logistics base.

Tough situation for sure..

[Hoooper]

Well, looking on the bright side, I attacked the airbase by Orsha with 140 bombers and had 127 shot down, so Pelton has found an effective counter to the air exploit (loads and loads of fighters, if I'm not mistaken). Also, I'm finding that a prepared defensive line behind a major river is impossible to breach. In my game with Baelfiin I used an offensive version of the linebacker tactic to attacked one weak (CV 27) hex with three 100k+ deliberate attacks and was slaughtered every time. I gave up after that.

[Hoooper]

Also, it's a long long way to Berlin ...

[sillyflower]

Look on the bright side -at least your Pz111ns are getting into combat with new patch; not just sitting unused like they use to.

Your losses look horrendous - can't see any option but to bug out a way back.

[Peltonx]

It does seem very low, but thats what it is. I posted all the OOBs and destoryed units list.

It is fun tring to hold on, a very different challenge from the summer of 41. When a game starts I feel very much under the gun to get 100 arm/ 40 hvy or Leningrad and Moscow so I know I have a win in the end. After September 42 I can kinda sit back and just hang on, plus its all new. Out of the 10 41-45 campiagns( I have 2 new campiagns ongoing also) this is the only 1 that has gotten to 1943.


Pelton

[Flaviusx]

Are you out of armament points? Very odd that there's so much manpower in the German replacement pool and it's not finding its way to your units.

[76mm]

The Sovs had 7.8 mln men by turn 70?![X(][X(]

[Peltonx]

AGN

So on turn 90 I have stacks of cv 1 to 5 and hes got stacks of 15 to 25.

Turn-30 Loses:
SHC 3.7 mil men 17000 tanks 51000 art 13000 planes
GHC 1.2 men 3450 tanks 10000 art 1500 Planes
OOB
SHC 5.4 mil troops 6000 tanks 62000 art 9500 planes
GHC 3.0 mil troops 2150 tanks 35000 art 3400 planes
Destroyed all Factories in Leningrad
Destroyed 76 AP and 37 HVY

By turn 70 Hoooper had 7 million men and 88k art.
From turn 70 to 90 Hooopers manpower has increaed from 7 million to 8 million.

Russian losses the last 20 turn 2,000,000 men, Guns 33000
German Losses the last 20 turns 900,000 men, Guns 28000

Russian OOB changes +900,000 men, Guns +31000
German OOB changes -300,000 men, Guns -7000

So in 20 turns the Russians lost 2,000,000 men and yet the army over all totals are up 900,000 so over 2,900,000 replasements were produced in 20 turns.
German loses were 900,000 and the over all total decreased 300,000 so 600,000 replasedments were produced over 20 turns.

That seem really high to me. In 20 turns the Russian have suffered 2.0 million loses in men and yet the over all total increased by 1 million men.

The big thing is the high attack CV's, hes got stacks and stacks of 15 to 25 CV's vs my 1 to 5's now.

I had stacks of 30 to 50 cvs in level 3 to 4 forts, but with the 100% totally unhistorical 1v1 = 2v1 it only took about 5 turns to push me out of the forts and now my army is a bunch of ants.

The german arm production is up from 100% to 380%, but its really meaningless at this point.

Their seems to be a huge difference from 70 to 100 destroyed ARM pts during 41. If I get 100+ arm pts bagged in 41 the Russian army is gimped, less then that its a disaster for the german because the russian can produce so much more art. I bagged the tanks worksin Leningrad and Kharkov, but as we all know the russain tank armys are basicly junk.

I know poeple bitch about the forts ect, but the real killer is the retard 1v1 = 2v1 rule. Who came up with that rule?

Forts for the German are usless, because 3 divisions of 42 infantry in a lvl 3 fort can be easly forsed to retreat by 2 stacks of 25 CV russian infantry. The retreating germans take again HUGE losses in guns. As you can see my infantry numbers dont change much but my cv drop way off because of a lack of guns.

DROP THE 1V1 VS 2V1 AND SHOT THE GUY THAT CAME UP WITH THAT!

If the Russian player was smart he let the German have all the tank factorys so he could produce allot more artillery and cav units.

It seems to be a knife edge as far is what is enough destoryed production an what is not. Hoooper had one of the gimpyist 41-42 winters O I have played against.

A few pointers for the Russians.
1. Hold Moscow
2. Let the tank works get bagged.
3. Don't waste men during the 41-42 Blizzard, dig in and build up forses.

German pointers.
1. Bag atleast 100 ARM pts or bag Leningrad/Moscow south to Rostov
2. Dig in before 1st blizzard.
3. Attack during 42 summer and bag atleast 100 russians.
4. You must keep the Red army under 6 million men by turn 70 if not you are going to get rolled. Red production is insanely high after turn 70. 3,000,000 men and 60,000 guns in 20 turns.

[Peltonx]

AGC