The PERFECT WAR Mod: Allied Side

[John 3rd]

Solid point...

How about them being sent west to meet up with Force Z? Could create a TRUE Combined Striking Force.

[DOCUP]

Nice John

Edit: Have some BBs on patrol between PP and PH.

From what I have found on the modernisation of the Big Five.

1931 Plans
Bolster Deck Armor with STS
Thicker armor on the turrets
Improve FC (fire control)
4 1.1 cannons

1934
Above with Anti torpedo bulges

1937
Reboiler
Mk 33 FC
Increase the beam, deck armor
add 5/38s (don't know how many)

If what I know is correct about some of the navy nautical port starboard poop deck stuff is correct. 

Then Reboilering means a new engine or something along that line.  Increaseing the beam I don't know what that does.  Looked it up it increases the stablity and decreases chance of roll over.  So would that also increase the accuracy of the guns.   I know adding armor and stuff will increase the weight but how much and would it slow down the ship? 

This is a land lubbers idea.

Reboiler them increase the beam but also add internal anti torpedo bulges (as to not reduce speed).  Maybe add some armor to them.  Since the Japanese are now building new faster 16in BBs. Add the FCs for the main guns and AA guns.  Take away the 2 torpedo tubes on the Colorado's.

My Questions.
What would be her speed?  Armor rating with STS is what?  How will that change the armor ratings of the ship in the game?  How would increaseing the beam and adding internal anti torpedo bulges add to the numbers also?

I think the islands are good.  So I guess its time for the US Navy ships and AC.  I don't think much would of happened with the army as I have stated before.

doc

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Solid point...

How about them being sent west to meet up with Force Z? Could create a TRUE Combined Striking Force.

Actually, that's not a good idea either. Remember that the USN expected to conduct War Plan Orange/Rainbow on the outbreak of war, marching the entire battleline across the Pacific.

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

How about them being sent west to meet up with Force Z? Could create a TRUE Combined Striking Force.

They would be far to slow to serve with Force Z...., not to mention lacking in AAA. They are far better suited for the "bombardment" role.

[DOCUP]

Is the Bathurst Class corvettes in the game for the RAN?
 
I have spent to much time on this.  Maybe I need to work more.  No I need another PBEM game
 
doc

[oldman45]

As far as the French Navy, just don't have the creation of the Vichy French. Have the government flee to England and the fleet goes to Africa. Then you can figure out what stays in the Med, what goes to the Atlantic and what ever is left can come to the Pacific.

On the issue of the bases, there are many works talking about how the Army and Navy wanted to improve the islands between the US and Oz to use as a flight path. Little on flying across the central Pacific. We also can't use hindsight here when talking about what bases might fall, because they wanted to fortify the bases but the treaty and then the lack of money caused the slow down.

I concur that sending a division of BB's to the PI would never be entertained by the Navy.

[Blackhorse]

JWE, Terminus, DOCUP & John3 -- thank you.

Re: South Pacific Air Bridge. Good idea. I'd suggest using CPNAB units (civilian contractors) as per the actual plan. In AE, these units withdraw 7/42, which provides time to replace them with Seabees.

Re: BB's in the PI. Bad idea. If the US was concerned about a greater Japanese build-up, Manila is about the last place they would put a Battleship Division. Alternative: IRL, Churchill pushed the US to send a portion of the fleet to Singapore before the war started. In this alternate world, what if the Illustrious (correct ship?) doesn't run aground, and a US CV TF is sent to pair up with her? Base them out of Trincomalee if the Japanese air threat to Singapore is perceived to be too high.

[Terminus]

It was the Indomitable, IIRC.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Been playing with the paint program...

Whomped up a couple of Omaha mods...

RevRick: Wanted to say that both of these are nice. Got wrapped up in the discussion and forgot to comment about your work.

[RevRick]

Thanks, John...
I've just begun playing with the art, but I have been working on an altHist mod of my own..

Mainly, there are lots more BB's, roughly 33%, for all sides, and about 15% more CVs.
here also were some minor alterations in the WNT and the LNT which allowed somewhat higher tonnage, and some early 1930's replacements for very old ships. This did not really apply to Japan because most of her ships were as new as the RN and USN main battle lines.

This would allow for a modified South Dakota class (8 16/50 vice 12, 30 Kt as opposed to 23) for the USN in the early 30's at the cost of all the old BB's up to the Nevada/Oklahoma.


The RN also gets, by retiring a larger number of the old ships, a 4 ship Rodney class with a more conventional layout and 28 kt speed. The RN does not build the 'R' class as in OTL, (a lesser version of the Queen Elizabeth's) but instead build them somewhat larger, with early 16" guns and 27 kt speed. They also take the Queen Elizabeth's in hand for a rebuild in the early 30's (basically all that is left the same is the Main Battery and the hull abaft the first turret - new engines, new bow, new AA suite beginning, new bridge works.) The RN does not build the Hood, Renown, and Repulse as BC.. They build Renown and Repulse as 40K ton 8-15" BB's shortly after WWI, the Hood becomes one of the Rodney's.

Japan withdraws from the WNT in 1935 because they resent deeply the 5:5:3 ratio and announce that they will begin building new battleships in accordance with the notification of intent to build clause in the WNT. Some more perspicacious observers note that they did not mention anything about tonnage or gun size in their notice...

The USA begins to respond two years earlier with the North Carolina (1935) (40K tons, 30 kt speed) and the Massachusetts (OT SoDak)(1937)(also 40K tons, 30 kt speed, 16/50 main battery) classes, and builds another Yorktown (Constellation) as a bridge to the Essex class.

The RN builds a KGV class but slightly heavier (40K with 16" guns) vice the OTL version.

But, the word is out in the inner circles in WASHDC that the Japanese have been planning some super battleships with 16" & 18" guns for some time. [one class of 4 with 9 16's in triple turrets at 45-48 Ktons and 33 kt speed, another class of 2 with 12-16" guns in triple turrets, 56-58 K ton, 30 Kt speed, and the OTL Yamato's - total of 8 ships - the first three will be in the water 07DEC41, next three within the next year, the Yamato's begin arriving in early-mid 1943!) That word gets to the intelligence guys because the Black Chamber was not shut down by Stinson (for any number of reasons, including the possibility of no Hoover Administration [details, details]). But, a revelation of that information has to be arranged that does not point the the US reading Japanese mail. This info is not even shared with the RN or the Prime Minister (Can you imagine Chamberlain with that info??????) This happens through the efforts of some very carefully recruited and strenuously trained Japanese Americans (through the offices of the Black Chamber) employed at the US embassy in Tokyo who carefully ferret out enough information to create enough hard proof to sustain enough of a suspicion of Japanese intentions by late 1937 to start the ball rolling.


The Two-Ocean Navy bill is signed in late 1938 because of European tensions and the various incidents in Japanese occupied China being a bit more egregious than was reported (IJN got snooty about the Panay incident, and the Allison incident became more problematic than they supposed.) With the North Carolina Class built and the Massachusetts class completing.. 4 Iowa's are ordered, 4 Montana's, and a class of expanded Montana's with 8" 18"47 naval files and almost 75,000 tons (ironically named the Rhode Island and Delaware!).

Carriers also receive a treatment...
Akagi and Amagi are built by the IJN, a class of Hiryu's, and four of the Shokaku's (two commissioned 07DEC41, two to complete in 1942), and two of the smaller Soryu (named Kairyu) for a total of 8 fleet carriers in the water at beginning of war. Junyo and Hiyo are under construction also as slighly smaller Shokaku class, with two Taihos, and a class of slighly larger and improved Unryu's on the drawing boards and waiting for ways.

Obviously, both sides have built up the shipbuilding infrastructure during the days of the treaty.

There is a lot more but I haven't put it all down on paper yet... Which means that it is all in my head (a dangerous proposition).

[Dixie]

Can I has these? [:D]

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Dixie

Can I has these? [:D]

Nice! Names please...

[Terminus]

Cold War RN ships? For shame!

[John 3rd]

I wanted the NIMITZ too...my hope was this was a Final Countdown or Weapons of Choice Mod...

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Cold War RN ships? For shame!

You've conversed with me before. You know I have no shame! [:D]

Fair enough, the bottom two are firmly Cold War era. The top two are both ships that were laid down in the war years. Maybe this is a bit more plausible then?

[Terminus]

Nice!

[John 3rd]

Good Compromise. Glad we have that settled. Put into the Allied OOB!

[John 3rd]

Looks like we have a new opponent for Allied BBs settled on in the OTHER Side of this Thread!

[House Stark]

For US carriers, is the plan just to go relatively historical with several pre-war carriers transitioning into mass Essex production with a Midway or few later on? I was thinking that it might be interesting if the US had a little more carrier size/type diversity (instead of Wasp being the only CV until Midway with a capacity that wasn't a nice round 90 planes). What if the US experimented with either smaller flattops (argument could be that they're cheaper) or going the other way, armored carriers (like the Brit carriers, or Taiho). This could be construed as something like competing designs in the late 1930s with one or two of each laid down before the war. Later of course, the US would probably switch to all Essex for wartime ease of construction, but something like this might be interesting, if a little less on the practical side. Could it be adequately justified according to the mod's vision, and would it be worth it in terms of gameplay/fun?

[John 3rd]

They made Ranger which was a terrible failure (NOT deployed to the Pacific even when the Fleet was desperate). She has similar issues as Ryujo for the Japanese. They tried to cram too many planes onto a small hull.

The Independence CVLs were excellent ships and we'll probably allow for more of them and/or conversions to them from appropriate CLs.