"Aye,aye,sir.

[danlongman]

It is true that Korean Air has gotten better but when I first started working in aviation they were
literally the terror of the skies. English is the international language of aviation but that does not
mean aircrew have any knowledge of conversational english. Air France was a pain in the rear
for political reasons since they thought French should be the international language of everything.
Alitalia could be amusing with their misunderstanding of colloquialisms, but the boys at KAL rarely
understood anything other than specific control instructions. You had to be Very Careful speaking to them.
When the Soviets shot down a couple of their airplanes everybody just knowingly shook their heads.
They were in the practice of hiring "John Waynes" to interperet english transmissions for the cockpit crew.
When they did not understand instructions they sometimes just did not respond. This could be exciting
if they were out of radar coverage. There were some interesting events with them during the 911 emergency.....
cheers

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I'm no longer active , but my JAG spouse still is. Sir to a woman will get you a raised eyebrow, but no reprimand. Ma'am is still accepted. The exception would be in "formal" usage. Such as "I relieve you sir"", regardless of sex.

And as an Airdale, we didn't use "aye, aye sir" in dailey usage, but would definately use it in formal usage. Like at a Captain's mast. Or a change of command. Or even in a change of duty such as SDO or ASDO. (I once condensed "I stand relived sir" into a split second. As I was turning over the duty, the red "crash phone" rang. The look of panic in the eyes of the oncoming watch was wonderful![:D]).

I didn't know that either was acceptable. I think the impetus is that you see an officer, not a gender, but it's never going to not rub me the worng way to hear women called "sir."

If your wife has access to whatever the military calls their Westlaw (maybe Westlaw; I don't have a password anymore)--the archive of CM decisions or perhaps just appealed ones-- maybe you could ask her if she knows of CM precedent where the decision turned on the distinction between "Yes, sir" and "Aye aye, sir." We were told in military justice class at OCS there were cases, but it was long ago and I doubt they ever cited them. It's possible they are no longer prcedent if any did exist. I'd be interested if it could be done with a keyword search.

[Bullwinkle58]

I found this googling "aye aye" on a USMC discussion forum. Made me smile:

""Roger that" is informal and is radio talk, as you said. For formal situations, "Aye- Aye" is used. I had a kid that went up to testify for court martial and said "roger that" to a Colonel. Afterwards, our Staff Sergeant stomped his ass and advised him that if he said "roger that" again during a court martial, the next one he would attend would be the Staff Sergeant's for hazing."

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/archi ... 85574.html

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

I'm no longer active , but my JAG spouse still is. Sir to a woman will get you a raised eyebrow, but no reprimand. Ma'am is still accepted. The exception would be in "formal" usage. Such as "I relieve you sir"", regardless of sex.

And as an Airdale, we didn't use "aye, aye sir" in dailey usage, but would definately use it in formal usage. Like at a Captain's mast. Or a change of command. Or even in a change of duty such as SDO or ASDO. (I once condensed "I stand relived sir" into a split second. As I was turning over the duty, the red "crash phone" rang. The look of panic in the eyes of the oncoming watch was wonderful![:D]).

I didn't know that either was acceptable. I think the impetus is that you see an officer, not a gender, but it's never going to not rub me the worng way to hear women called "sir."

If your wife has access to whatever the military calls their Westlaw (maybe Westlaw; I don't have a password anymore)--the archive of CM decisions or perhaps just appealed ones-- maybe you could ask her if she knows of CM precedent where the decision turned on the distinction between "Yes, sir" and "Aye aye, sir." We were told in military justice class at OCS there were cases, but it was long ago and I doubt they ever cited them. It's possible they are no longer prcedent if any did exist. I'd be interested if it could be done with a keyword search.

She said she would be happy to research it, but wasn't familiar with such a case. My gut feeling is that it's one of those military lies they tell to newly entered persons like "if you get killed in a car accident, and your not wearing a seatbelt , your heirs won't get your insurance". Or my favorite, "if you get a sunburn, we will charge you for DESTRUCTION OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY". (Negligence sure...if you miss a duty or watch due to your sunburn.But ....). [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

She said she would be happy to research it, but wasn't familiar with such a case. My gut feeling is that it's one of those military lies they tell to newly entered persons like "if you get killed in a car accident, and your not wearing a seatbelt , your heirs won't get your insurance". Or my favorite, "if you get a sunburn, we will charge you for DESTRUCTION OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY". (Negligence sure...if you miss a duty or watch due to your sunburn.But ....). [:D]

If she has time and it's a keyword thing. Don't know what the military has for case archives.

FWIW, "The Caine Mutiny" is on cable in a couple of weeks. I think this might play a part in one of Bogie's rants.

I've heard the destruction thing too, and yeah, it's BS. But getting a bad sunburn which makes you unable to do duty is no different than coming to work so hung-over you can't work. Either way it's the green felt table.

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: sprior

I never heard anyone say "aye, aye sir" in the RN. Not once, not never.

Mostly:

Are you sure sir? Okaaaay

Really sir? If you say so.

You astonish me sir! Do you mean to say that the RN no longer uses the same language as PoB described? [:D]

On the same topic, why did "pragmatical" ever lose the meaning in the A/M novels. I greatly prefer it to the modern meaning. [:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Aye Aye Sir would be considered Anglo slang so there'd be no equivilent in Japanese.

"Hai" is generally considered an acceptible way of saying yes, as long as it's done in proper context (like including the formalized bow to show respect)
Also in the way its inflected. It seems melodramatic to us but i'm sure "Aye Aye Sir" is just as paculiar sounding to Japanese.

I spent the last fourteen years working for a Japanese firm. They made it very clear that Hai does not mean yes. It means I understand you.

As long as you're at it, can you define "domo"? I think it stands somewhere between "fine, whatever, numbnuts" and "f*ck you". [:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck

ORIGINAL: USS America





Hmmm, then what is Japanese for "yes"?

[:D] LOL
I can't say I ever heard it. The closest I ever got was " I think so" (So dis ney). You never heard "no" either. What you got was a tilted head, an intake of breath through clenched teeth and the statement " Very difficult I think".

The only word I got used to hearing was Qu Kay. Break time.

I was always taught that when the Japanese suck their breath in through their teeth and say "it is very difficult" you could always translate that to "No way in hell you dog-breathed Gajin(barbarian) bastard!". [:D]

I think its more of "it's more trouble than your opinion of me is worth". [:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

from my reading of Western language, the Italian "sisignore" & the German "jawohl" are equivalent to the American "Aye Aye, Sir!" - meaning, "I understand & will obey!"

so it's interesting that the Japanese language doesn't seem to include a similar phrase. as a Western guy, i thought of Japanese society as it evolved into the 40's as being excessively compliant & obedient. but as i've read more about WWII history, there are lots of examples where low-rank Japanese officers altered national policy, ignored orders from higher command, & steered action to suit themselves.

perhaps it was partly due to the fact that their language didn't have an exact equivalent to 'Yes, Sir!'

For my two cents, the Russian equivalent is "так точно" (tak tochno) the literal translation of which is "that's right". [:D]

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

It is my understanding that in the airtraffic control world, the international language of flight is English, so the body language thing doesn't come into often (unless the pilot is doing a flyby and using a finger to give a salute)....[:D]

There is the rather famious story in aviation of an air traffic controller stating; "Maintain 6 thousand follow the JAP 123 at your 12 o'clock" .. The JAP was a JAL 707 .. out of the blue on the airwaves comes a "Banzai!!" ... [:D]

[I am having a hard time finding the source for this .I remember intially reading this in Readers Digest but that source referenced something back in the late '60's .. if somebody who is an ol' aviator can help me ..]

This very well could have come from one of Robert Serling's books. I remember reading one when I was in high school, mid-70s, but can't find its name anymore. Anyway, the whole book was full of stories like this. Some might even be true!

One of Clancy's Jack Ryan books has a JAL jumbo crashing into the White House, no? [&:]

Its been too long since I read it.

[Sardaukar]

Since we are now into Air Traffic Control, funny story from 60's about British Airways.

Dortmund ATC: "Have you never been in Dortmund?" (when BA captain asked clarification which runway he was supposed to use for takeoff)
BA Captain: Yes, but it was dark and we didn't land."

[:D]

[Crackaces]

"if you get a sunburn, we will charge you for DESTRUCTION OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY". (Negligence sure...if you miss a duty or watch due to your sunburn.But ...

Panama 1980 Soldiers from the 3/325 are doing the rounds through the JTOC or Jungle warfare school. Every soldier coming to training gets an education about the Bushmaster( a nasty snake), sun burns, fungus .. and water safety ..and the SOP's

3 soldiers decide to tan naked at "Devils Beach" A popular cove. The problem is that 15 minutes of sun at the Tropic of Cancer is like 2 - 3 hours in North Carolina. Do say 4 hours in the sun and do the math .. The real problem came when one of the soldiers took 3 linear feet of Portuguese Man of War. That is how I get involved as I evacute these indidviduals by helecopter taking the other two for 35% second degree burns (Back & posterior surfaces of both legs ..)

Soldier #1 survived .. .it was touch and go as when I assessed him with a ventrcualr escape rhythm of 20 as did #2 & #3 survive with their burns .

Now the ramifications ..UCMJ Article 92 Failure to follow instructions / standard operating proceedures .. this would be bad .. but .. the need for medical care was a direct result of not following SOP's to wit nude sunbathing in waters known to have PMoW .. LINE OF DUTY .. NO That means the bill was paid out of pocket for 2 weeks of intensive care along with reduction of rank and a fine .. ouch!!!!

No need to charge with "DESTRUCTION OF GOVERNMENT PROPERTY" UCMJ Article 92 did quite nicely

[Disco Duck]

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Aye Aye Sir would be considered Anglo slang so there'd be no equivilent in Japanese.

"Hai" is generally considered an acceptible way of saying yes, as long as it's done in proper context (like including the formalized bow to show respect)
Also in the way its inflected. It seems melodramatic to us but i'm sure "Aye Aye Sir" is just as paculiar sounding to Japanese.

I spent the last fourteen years working for a Japanese firm. They made it very clear that Hai does not mean yes. It means I understand you.

As long as you're at it, can you define "domo"? I think it stands somewhere between "fine, whatever, numbnuts" and "f*ck you". [:D]

Sorry, Domo was not used that much so I am not sure. But dealing with people who will not say no is difficult..