ATG Basic Tutorial Questions_Central Front

[ernieschwitz]

Perhaps i should also expound alittle on the difference between having a graphic available, and that of having a landscapetype for a graphic.

While having a graphic available... like jungle in standard AT terrain, it is still a subset of the Landscapetype heavy forest. So while they may look different they will have the same effect on gameplay. That is same move allowances, combat bonus/penalties and the like. If you want to have these as something seperate a new landscapetype is needed. That is why a hex that has a fort built in it gets a new landscapetype (fort) or it wouldn´t give bonuses to the defender or change movement rules for that hex.

At least that is my understanding.

[Mad Russian]

Personally, I much prefer game play to pretty graphics. Both is nice, if you can get it, but if not, give me good game play everytime.

J2D is right. What I'm looking for is utility. But these sets of maps need to be available for the foreseeable future. This project has legs and could get up and move to other projects. It's needs to be as long lived as possible. At this moment I'll stop with the map creation until I see where this may all be going. Who knows where you may see these maps.....[:D]

I have lots of good friends that are graphics guys, so I MIGHT see if I can call in a favor or two. Over the years I've done some special request scenarios for tournaments and individuals that may have some skills at creating graphics. From what I've seen the graphics I would be interested in shouldn't be earth shaking.

Modern tanks, APC, IFV, Fighter Jets, Helicopter, Jet Bombers. I think there is a NATO symbol mod somewhere too.

All the terrain graphics I've seen so far is fine with me.

The issue will be that whatever mod I use to create this scenario with all gamers will need to have on their computers to play it. So, I want to keep the mods to a minimum.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

I thought this was the funniest picture I've seen in a long time and it reminded me of what campaign this whole project is all about.



Be careful little guy or you just might catch up to him!!! [X(]

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

While we are here and talking about map graphics....

I need some obvious help figuring out:

1) Why when I opened ATG and selected ATG graphics, it made a map it used AT graphics.

2) Where the ATG and AT graphics can be switched when making a scenario.

Thanks ahead of time.

Good Hunting.

MR

[ernieschwitz]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
While we are here and talking about map graphics....

I need some obvious help figuring out:

1) Why when I opened ATG and selected ATG graphics, it made a map it used AT graphics.

2) Where the ATG and AT graphics can be switched when making a scenario.

Thanks ahead of time.

Good Hunting.

MR

1). This happens for everyone. I don´t know what Vic was thinking about when he made the editor do that, but its hard coded into the editor.

2). Thats easy. Just open the editor, and before you do anything, change the masterfile to: generic.at2 and you will get the whole bucket load of ATG graphics, including the new units graphics and all. This is done in the Setng tab.

[Mad Russian]

Okay. Started a new scenario. Went to the editor. Selected map size. Am now in the editor. I see no place to select graphics.

I don't see a masterfile of any kind.

Good Hunting.

MR

[ernieschwitz]

Go into Setng it will be there....

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

So, here we are.

The question is, is it worth it to start over and redo the map using the ATG graphics? Put another way, if you were doing this would you redo the map at this point right now? Why?

I need an educated reason for either going ahead or starting again.

My own gut feeling is to start again and use the ATG graphics because going forward they will be used by the game system probably longer than the AT graphics.

Thanks ahead of time.

Good Hunting.

MR

Well, like i said a few posts ago. I don´t think you should start over. If you find that you don´t like the current graphics you are using, i would use the realist mod graphics, that come with the game and are used by World at War by tweber. You can simply transfer them using the option in setng. However if you want the graphics that the game uses for all the new scenarios that came with the game, and not the old AT ones. Then you will need to change, and redo the map.

Personally i like the realist map ones more than the new ATG graphics. But i think it is only a matter of taste.

As for them being compatible later down the line... It really depends on if the next version of ATG, AT Platinium or whatever, is going to be like. I have no idea if Vic will make it backwards compatible. But I think there are a few years to go before that happens anyway.

So starting over would not be my choice... but Its really up to you... what i can do is perhaps show you the difference in the graphics. But i think it would be easier for you to study them yourself.

If you want to see the ATG Graphics, just load up my hispaniola scenario, from the scenario bank, or the European Diplomacy Redux. If you want to see the Realist graphics load up the GD 1938 scenario that you can find in the scenario bank.

Incidently you are going to be modding your scenario to be something else than ATG anyway. Modding doesn´t have to be graphical. It can be unit wise too... The Bombur Mod is all about units.

Sorry for the late replay. I'll follow this thread a little closer from now on.

Attaching or loading from a masterfile is basically importing a lot of settings from another scenario. Its a way I always used to keep all rules in the masterfile and then quickly update a dozen or so scenarios that use those rules. Since the masterfile reference can also stay attached to a scenario you can chose to automate this process (at cost of longer load time since your scenario must be loaded and then also its masterfile to make updates).

If its just the landscape graphics you want to change you can of course keep things as they are and then go into the LT (landscapetype) editor window and there load new graphics files from for example the 'graphics/at2' directory instead of the 'graphics/default' directory for the landscape types you use.

This editor is not easy but it does allow you to redo and change almost everything.

The old tutorials for AT are just as relevant as they ever where since the editor is still basically very much the same; altough some features have been added.

True i have been lacking in documenting it. Someone made an interesting start on the wiki but never quite managed to continue. I am still willing to support any such effort and answer any questions.

Kind regards,
Vic

[Josh]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

I thought this was the funniest picture I've seen in a long time and it reminded me of what campaign this whole project is all about.



Be careful little guy or you just might catch up to him!!! [X(]

Good Hunting.

MR

LOL now I see it, I only saw (your?? [;)] ) dog chasing the rhino, not the Nato - Warsaw pact. Maybe I need glasses hehe.

Quote; "Modern tanks, APC, IFV, Fighter Jets, Helicopter, Jet Bombers. I think there is a NATO symbol mod somewhere too."
So uh would that mean we can expect a gulf war scenario? Ranged combat maybe too?

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

Go into Setng it will be there....

Thanks.

I appreciate the support.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: Vic


Sorry for the late replay. I'll follow this thread a little closer from now on.

Attaching or loading from a masterfile is basically importing a lot of settings from another scenario. Its a way I always used to keep all rules in the masterfile and then quickly update a dozen or so scenarios that use those rules. Since the masterfile reference can also stay attached to a scenario you can chose to automate this process (at cost of longer load time since your scenario must be loaded and then also its masterfile to make updates).

If its just the landscape graphics you want to change you can of course keep things as they are and then go into the LT (landscapetype) editor window and there load new graphics files from for example the 'graphics/at2' directory instead of the 'graphics/default' directory for the landscape types you use.

This editor is not easy but it does allow you to redo and change almost everything.

The old tutorials for AT are just as relevant as they ever where since the editor is still basically very much the same; altough some features have been added.

True i have been lacking in documenting it. Someone made an interesting start on the wiki but never quite managed to continue. I am still willing to support any such effort and answer any questions.

Kind regards,
Vic

From my perspective of a few decades making scenarios, there is only an editor that is simple to use and one that is not. One that has poor documentation and has the designer trying to find out everything on their own is not simple.

I agree there are tutorials. Seemingly dozens of them. And to get all the way through creating a simple scenario you have to go through I have no idea how many of them to find the steps. I don't know how many, because at this point, I've not found all the answers I'm looking for myself and I've read several of them.

As ernieschwitz has pointed out, he's still learning and still 'finds' things the editor is capable of.

Again, I know that doing code is fun and writing instructions on how to use the editor is not. I've been on both sides of that fence.

I'll keep working at it because the project this is all a part of is going to be so worth it.

Thanks for taking the time to make comments. I know you are busy and I appreciate what part of your time you share with me.

Good Hunting.

MR

[iangelderman]

Hi MR

I did not read the entire tread, just a quick glance. I might be wrong but looks like you want to tweak the map graphics. I played around with ATG and managed to change the graphics somewhat.
Included is a screenshot.

[Mad Russian]

The graphics on the map are good. I just need basics.

Woods
Light Woods
Village
Town
City
Warf
Airfield
Swamp
Road - I could use two kinds of roads but one type may work fine.
Bridges

The ability to name the locations.

Most of that is in the editor and I've figured it out. I do want to change some of the parameters, such as any urban location having unlimited aircraft stacking but that will come later.

Thanks for reading and joining in the discussion though. No comment or suggestion goes unread.

I appreciate those that have the knowledge sharing it.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: Josh

So uh would that mean we can expect a gulf war scenario? Ranged combat maybe too?

You know, with me anything is possible. I have varied tastes and it just depends on what strikes my fancy. My Grandson was looking at my wargames and he saw the ones on NATO vs WP and wanted to know about those. That led to discussions of my being in NATO and it made me take a look at ATG for the ability to create the situation.

Of course, once NATOvsWP is in place then any modern game would be easy to add in. I was also thinking of doing several of the Operations for Vietnam.
Like Apache Snow, Attelboro, Crazy Horse, Silver Bayonet, etc...all at the same scale. The Gulf Wars I probably wouldn't do. The contests were too one sided.

AIW 73 would be a possibility though! [:D]

HSG is needing to do SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE!! We are feeling the same as SSG Lafayette Pool, who named all three of his Sherman tanks, "In the Mood". One of which can be seen in the upper left corner of our logo.

Ranged combat meaning what?

Good Hunting.

MR

[Josh]

Nice screenie SCAF, I like the graphics.
 
@ Mad Russian; you're probably right about the onesided aspect of the gulf war, that wouldn't translate well into the ATG engine, or maybe it would but where would the gameplay go?
With ranged combat I mean as in "Artillery fire", blasting away from 1-2 hexes without getting near the enemy. I mean the Abrams were shooting and killing the Iraqi tanks at ... 1-2 km? Very few close encounters that I've read off? Same with the gunships... killing off enemy troops that didn't even see them, so how would that translate into the ATG engine?
Hmmm, speaking of ranged combat, the fact that the Tiger or even the Panther with their superior guns outgun any Allied tank, and that almost all Allied tanks had to get close to penetrate the cats' armour, ... heck I wouldn't know how this is actually translated into ATG. All I know is that the heavies have thicker armour and a bigger punch, although a bit slower reload. It's not Steel Panthers and it's not WitE but somewhere in between.
The heaviest Arty tubes in ATG have a range of two hexes, in WWII that would be ... 20 km? A Tiger has a range of about 2 km and effectively 1 kilometer?  A Sherman an a T-34 effectively 500 meters? I know that in WitE you can put the battlelog into high detail, so you can actually *see* each and every unit closing in and firing, heaviest guns first and the smaller firearms last. Things are a bit different in ATG I think.
Oh well just some loose thoughts.

[Mad Russian]

The hexes are scaled at 4km. But you know, if memory serves me correctly there were LOTS of Soviet tactical missile units and NATO had a few as well.

Which brings up chemical and nuclear capability. Can chemical attacks with a residual affect for more than a single turn because the turn length is only 12 hours.

And I hope we can deliver nuclear weapons as well. Both NATO and the Warsaw Pact have tactical nukes and both sides realistically intended to use them.

Besides tactical WMD though the normal tube artillery units in the games themselves have ranges up to 6 hexes. So, yes, in all regards there will be ranged combat in the scenario.

Good Hunting.

MR

[CSO_Talorgan]

ORIGINAL: SCAF

Gorgeous!

Are these graphics available anywhere?