ZA RODINU! (Kamil vs Mike) March 1943!

[KamilS]

T16 north (German)


Condition of AGN forces at the beginning of turn 16.

Repetitive and very often unsuccessful assaults on Soviet positions taken its toll. Having 2 inf div with strength 4 at the beginning of T16 is quite an achievement .

[KamilS]

T16 centre (German)


This is situation at the beginning of German turn. Two corps from 1 Pz Group (Orel area) had HQ build-up last turn.

[KamilS]

T16 casualties (German)


Aggressive stance takes its toll. German losses are over 500k.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Kamil

It is quite funny thing, that at Leningrad approaches both of us evaluated other side being much much stronger. After reading this part of AAR and seeing real strength of Mike's troops I feel, that pouring arriving reinforcements into AGN area would have made the difference, but I have to say, that I do not regret not doing it.

I strongly believe that Leningrad is secondary objective and prioritising AGN over AGC has to be really justified by favourable developments.

It is either everything or nothing. Terrain favours defender massively, limits possible direction of assault and its remote location prevents using engaged troops elsewhere for 2-3 turns.

Don't get me wrong, Leningrad has to be attacked, but I strongly believe it is up to Soviet player to lose it or not. Axis should avoid overcommitting there.

The number one objective is Leningrad and the south. If you do one and not the other its no good enough to win or atleast have a chance.

Moscow is impossible as we have seen with some of the best verse average players its still not takeable. Even very good vs below average.

The south is still a cake walk, Leningrad I think is not that hard IF you throw allot into it and drive striaght for it. Moscow sure needs to be pushed, but only to give back land during blizzard then take it out the following summer.

[Mike29]

I agree with you Pelton. But Kamil choose third ojectve - manpower and successed with this. Lets see what is the next.

T16 (start) 02.10.1941. Leningrad is now held for sure ! Great celeration on Nevsky prospect, Stalin allowed ministration in Isakievsky Church.

[Mike29]

T16 (start) 02.10.1941. Great Vyazma pocket. Bigger than historical.

[Mike29]

T16 (start) 02.10.1941. Donbass area. All evacuated here long time ago. We have 360 AP, and did not loose any important factories ecept HI.

[Mike29]

T17. 09.10.1941. Final situation before the mud. Leningradf held, Moscow held, all AP evacuated.

[KamilS]

T18 OOB/casualties (German)


I was really grateful that Mike didn't withdrawn. Having slim chances of capturing Moscow and jeopardising winter preparations in order to have any was alternative I was really afraid of.

Encircling 30 units was crucial development, that made me consider mounting crazy snow offensive.


Pocketed formations:

Vyazma - 16 inf div, 2 cav div, 2 tank brig and 1 unidentified unit
Kaluga - 7 inf div, 1 cav div

far south - 2 inf div

[Mike29]

Kamil frankly speaking I expected to save some units from there but you made pocket very tight although I could open it. I had potentially enough forces there to puch one stack of tanks on one side of the neck but not both. That is why I did not risk to attack - even in success this could save only nearest two or three dvisions. Anyways, history doesnt know subjunctive.

[Mike29]

T22. 13.11.1941. Leningrad area. We start counteroffensive from here.

[Mike29]

T22. 13.11.1941. Moscow region and Tula pocket. Here is my mistake I had to withdraw to Ryazan.

[Mike29]

T22. 13.11.1941. Donbass pocket. Also my strategic bludner.

[Mike29]

T23. North and Center.

[Mike29]

T23. 20.11.1941. South.

[Mike29]

Kamil I dont have T24, would you please post summary statistics of the Fall campaign and some screens.

[Mike29]

First Shock Army (T25 condition). I nursed this "yellow" units from T1 and now they are collected here from all fronts, refited and ready for REVENGE!

[Peltonx]

Were the pockets closed after November 1st? If they were thats a good hit to SHC AP crunch long term for sure.

GHC dispite not takeing Leningrad is not in that bad of shape becuase they managed to take the hills and SHC OOB is low. Not sure what it is on Dec 1st, but guessing not close to 5 million.

Blizzard will tell allot if SHC has a good one.

Long run I don't see GHC being strong enough to push towards Moscow and will have to settle for holding Tula north and playing in the south during 42.

Good game.

[Mike29]

Yes they were. Surpisingly due to my mistakes and Kamil's correct play during Fall campaign this game near balance. On T25 (December, 4) I lost 3 550 000 and have only 4 600 000 in service. So I need to squeeze maksimum with this not so perfect situation. Newerertheless, I did not lost any AP, industry and have a lot of "yellow" units with high morale. Victory will be ours! No pasaran!

[KamilS]

Failing to capture any of major manpower centres and destroy armament industry forced me to undertake massive snow offensive. I risked and jeopardised preparation for blizzard, but I think it was right choice.

After successful November I evaluated, that Mike can't be strong, so I expected to held to important positions - Vyazma/Bryansk and Stalino.


It turned out I was wrong and I have massively underestimated Red Army ...



T24 north (German)


Withdrawal. There is northing here worth fighting for.