n01487477(Damian) Vs. Nemo121

[n01487477]

Sorry guys I've been a little busy. Actually I'm posting this while riding the Busan green line down to the uni where i work.
@paxmondo - I know but right now i have everything out of port. It will reduce once ive moved my troops to better locations.
@alfred - yeah i know my posts haven't been upbeat. When weak act strong, when strong act weak. I will post detailed thoughts point by point in the next day or two once I get over the lump of the work that was thrown at me 2 days ago.

I was going to detail the 21st but its just too annoying on the matrix forum from a smart phone. Post after my class.

[n01487477]

As I said, I'm damn stupid when it comes to land combat. Please offer any advice in regard to the first map. Am also willing to have an adviser look at the save pertaining to this.

Note: on the 1/9 we move to map stacking limits.(which I need to learn too)



Figure 2: I brought some decoys in hoping to get some BB's to react from Geralton. I got a SCTF but my Kates didn't all fly and those that did were fairly ineffective.

Figure 3: Air battles in the Kuriles before I recommence the bombing campaign.

[n01487477]

22 Aug '42

Looks like I'm about to get schooled in Tetris stacking. Fionn has 7 days to make a break through and break my lines before we move to the stacking limits pwhex. I have no reserves and I have no idea where I've sent all my PP's [&:] Probably on Sub/Transport/LCU commanders, buying out air groups and upgrading off the normal line.

He's playing to my weakness - land combat.

In Burma - My armor unit was pushed out of Myitkyina. Sighted some more AP's heading for Calcutta / Dacca. Sent 2 Kate, 2 Val, 1 Helen and 3 Betty units to augment fighters. Available troops are being pulled in from Sumatra and more AF units to bases.

Australia - Got the 3 units Nth of Daly to retreat and heading Nth to Katherine. Units being pulled in from Rabaul / Sth Pacific. Not sure I have enough LCU's to fight the good fight but will try to delay the inevitable as best I can. Really, I'm hoping to stall his advance at Darwin which will give me enough time to fortify some of the Is. Nth of Darwin. Fionn loves using FT's / Parachute - Transport drops.

Kuriles - more sweeps and my LB goes in tomorrow.

Will have to wait till the weekend to respond to Alfred as I'm [>:]

[n01487477]

23 Aug '42

Things feel like they are heating up.. My Attu invasion is being assembled and ready to launch. Sweeps and bombing of Shimishuri Jima flew, but the results were less than satisfactory. I'm tasking more bombers to take out the airfields and then ports.

The big news is on the attached maps. Burma and China in play. I will post a map of AV / area when I get to it on the weekend. Can't wait for the stacking limits to kick in...

[JocMeister]

Those Chinese units in the open are bad for him. Get your air force to work them over. They have no AA and you can easily cause more than a thousand casualties per day. Also bring in whatever armor you have! Chinese units have virtually no AT capabilities. A Chinese unit in the open is a dead Chinese unit. You need to start pounding his stack with your bombers. He will take massive casualties.

Don´t know what has happened in China but you are doing something wrong. [:)]

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Those Chinese units in the open are bad for him. Get your air force to work them over. They have no AA and you can easily cause more than a thousand casualties per day. Also bring in whatever armor you have! Chinese units have virtually no AT capabilities. A Chinese unit in the open is a dead Chinese unit. You need to start pounding his stack with your bombers. He will take massive casualties.

Don´t know what has happened in China but you are doing something wrong. [:)]

Thanks, I'm already doing some bombing, although not as much as I would like ... this is scenario 1. Not enough air groups, not enough LCU's. Most of my armor is there, more on the way.

Floyd and I basically had a detente ... and I freely admit to having glazed over eyes as soon as I gaze upon China.

I'd be happy for you to look at the next save if you want ...

[JocMeister]

I´m an allied player that have lost China twice in Scenario 1. [:)] While I´m no expert on the Japanese side I think its not much an allied player can do against a determined Japanese attack. From the AARs I follow I think CR is the only one that has been able to stand his ground in China. But its looks like his opponent isn´t making much of an effort either.

Check in with my opponents SqzMyLemon and obvert. Both have AARs ongoing against me. I´m sure they can give you good advice on China! [:)] Once you start applying pressure to the Chinese the supply will nose dive. In my first game I was down to under 5k supply in whole of China just before the collapse. Going on the offensive as the allies in China I think is a very big mistake. You should be able to exploit that. [:)]

[MAurelius]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I´m an allied player that have lost China twice in Scenario 1. [:)] While I´m no expert on the Japanese side I think its not much an allied player can do against a determined Japanese attack. From the AARs I follow I think CR is the only one that has been able to stand his ground in China. But its looks like his opponent isn´t making much of an effort either.

yes... John 3rd really isn't making any effort in China

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I´m an allied player that have lost China twice in Scenario 1. [:)] While I´m no expert on the Japanese side I think its not much an allied player can do against a determined Japanese attack. From the AARs I follow I think CR is the only one that has been able to stand his ground in China. But its looks like his opponent isn´t making much of an effort either.

Check in with my opponents SqzMyLemon and obvert. Both have AARs ongoing against me. I´m sure they can give you good advice on China! [:)] Once you start applying pressure to the Chinese the supply will nose dive. In my first game I was down to under 5k supply in whole of China just before the collapse. Going on the offensive as the allies in China I think is a very big mistake. You should be able to exploit that. [:)]

my ongoing campaign against Cuttlefish sees 25,000 Chinese av blitzing through Southern China on their march to Shanghai and nothing can stop them. Babeslite version, so equivalent to scen 1 in LCU and air units. It much depends on the early 3-4 months, if the Japanese player can't take advantage of the setup in the game, then he will have an as hard life in China as the Japanese had in real life. Of course the Chinese need supply, so without Burma secured, they won't have supply. With supply, they are a steamroller as battles are decided by assault value in the game and if you've got Chinese stacks of 10,000av each, fully prepped, exp up to 55+ you'll see Chinese adjusted av of 15,000 and higher, kicking the Japanese out of pretty much all positions. I was long wondering why I was advancing all over the map until I realized the Japanese must be running out of ground units as they have lost 8000 pts for ground losses by 9/43.

All the Chinese need are a better positioning at start (not the historical positions that are nothing but a huge disadvantage in the game) and supply and you will end up having more than 30,000 Chinese av in late 43. And how much would the Japanese have by that time? 1/3? Probably not even that much and for sure not that much mobile as there are many bases that have high garisson requirements, Shanghai has nearly 1000 av requirement.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Thanks, I'm already doing some bombing, although not as much as I would like ... this is scenario 1. Not enough air groups, not enough LCU's. Most of my armor is there, more on the way.

Floyd and I basically had a detente ... and I freely admit to having glazed over eyes as soon as I gaze upon China.

I'd be happy for you to look at the next save if you want ...

Both my games are scenario 1, and I used virtually all of the IJAAF 2E groups in China, eventually getting 200+ plane raids. Really you have to commit some of the better large zero groups occasionally if he uses the AVG or other US or Brit groups to jump you there, plus some good Oscar groups. It'a big commitment, but worth it if you are in control in other areas DURING 42, or the Allies have a grand total of 1 CV left.[;)] I even used the Netty groups occasionally for intensive ground bombing missions due to their range and expert pilots. Most players wouldn't want to do this, but the Chinese have poor AA and if you gain air superiority not much will challenge a 45 plane Tainan Ku S-1 sweep. Toward the end of 42 you have to hustle things out and get them to Burma, DEI and So Pac to get ready there.

ORIGINAL: castor troy

All the Chinese need are a better positioning at start (not the historical positions that are nothing but a huge disadvantage in the game) and supply and you will end up having more than 30,000 Chinese av in late 43. And how much would the Japanese have by that time? 1/3? Probably not even that much and for sure not that much mobile as there are many bases that have high garisson requirements, Shanghai has nearly 1000 av requirement.

Shanghai is only about 350AV requirement, and most of the garrisons can be augmented with relatively cheap garrison units from Manchuria, but the Japanese do indeed have significantly less AV total in China. Maybe around 12k-14k, depending on what is added in and which are given enough time and supply to build to full TOE. They must use the early positioning, the air force and higher quality troops to push an advantage early. Also it's important to get tanks bought from Manchuria to send in, as these are the most effective against Chinese troops that have poor anti-armor and virtually no anti-tank weapons.

So if the Chinese can last through 42 with most of their army intact by getting to an MLR and staying put NO MATTER WHAT, not engaging in ANY offensive activities, they might have a chance to hold agains the early IJA advantages and be ready for the supply to roll in during late 43-44. If the Chinese engage offensively it's nearly always counter productive in the early going, both wasting supply and giving the Japanese a chance to use better experience and the air force to crush a bunch of units that are fighting in potentially less than +2-3 territory.

Every Japanese move can eventually be countered by the Allied war machine, but the real goal is to make it take longer and stretch the war out.

PS - That Chinese 22 unit stack in the plains is exactly what you hope and dream of in the beginning as the IJ player. Bomb the crap out of it with anything available, keep the tanks in there and add a few divisions. If he keeps piling on he'll eventually bludgeon himself to a 1:2 attack and you'll see massive Chinese casualties.

[castor troy]

Shanghai is only 350 for the Japanese? It's not the 1000 as I had in mind but showing 720 for me as the Allied player. Are garisson requirements different for the IJ/allied?

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Shanghai is only 350 for the Japanese? It's not the 1000 as I had in mind but showing 720 for me as the Allied player. Are garisson requirements different for the IJ/allied?

Can be whatever the mod dev sets it to. Can be diff for Allied or IJ. 720 for both in scen1 ...

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Shanghai is only 350 for the Japanese? It's not the 1000 as I had in mind but showing 720 for me as the Allied player. Are garisson requirements different for the IJ/allied?

Split the difference then! [;)]

I must be off, and I don't have the game here to reference. Shanghai is probably 720 in my game as well, but it's not really a problem to garrison as it's full-up with units to start, and most of them grow into their TOE so some can be removed to other spots. It's a pain to continually organize garrisons for China, trying to be as efficient as possible, but it's worth it if it frees up a few brigades or even a division.

EDIT - Got home and counted up the garrison requirements for China. In the game against Jocke I have all of it but the central plains around Chungking (four bases). I counted 5450 AV to garrison the rest! [X(] Shanghai is indeed the highest garrison at 720 AV.

That is a lot more than I'd thought. Wow.

[floydg]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Those Chinese units in the open are bad for him. Get your air force to work them over. They have no AA and you can easily cause more than a thousand casualties per day. Also bring in whatever armor you have! Chinese units have virtually no AT capabilities. A Chinese unit in the open is a dead Chinese unit. You need to start pounding his stack with your bombers. He will take massive casualties.

Don´t know what has happened in China but you are doing something wrong. [:)]

Thanks, I'm already doing some bombing, although not as much as I would like ... this is scenario 1. Not enough air groups, not enough LCU's. Most of my armor is there, more on the way.

Floyd and I basically had a detente ... and I freely admit to having glazed over eyes as soon as I gaze upon China.

I'd be happy for you to look at the next save if you want ...

Maybe you thought it was a detente in China -- I was maneuvering. I had things set up for some thrusts back, and Nemo is taking advantage of that.

You had two good opportunities to break through and wreak havoc.

First was outside Nanyang, but you stopped and then let me beat back your armor. I had nothing behind my thin line, so a breakthrough would have been devastating.

Second was at Wuchow. You took that base when I was toying around Amoy, and then again, stopped. You stalled when you should have advanced.

[PaxMondo]

Damian,

You can't afford as the IJ to sit back in China. The game balance is such that as the IJ you need to really prosecute china early or suffer staggering consequences when those gigantic china units gain morale and exp. If you don't turn the tide quickly in china, Fionn will own Fusan in mid-43.

Put into context, Burma is side-show. No matter what the allies do there, its almost impossible to walk overland to Shanghai in time to make any difference. But a stack starting near Sian can be at the wrong end of the Korean penninsula in 9 months.

Get your bombers in gear. Its how I finish training my bomber pilots. I get them to 60-ish skill (40 exp), then put them into a china bomber unit to get their skill up to 70's and exp up to 60's. Then they are ready for my pool. They can gain that 20 exp in 30 - 40 days.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: floydg

ORIGINAL: n01487477

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Those Chinese units in the open are bad for him. Get your air force to work them over. They have no AA and you can easily cause more than a thousand casualties per day. Also bring in whatever armor you have! Chinese units have virtually no AT capabilities. A Chinese unit in the open is a dead Chinese unit. You need to start pounding his stack with your bombers. He will take massive casualties.

Don´t know what has happened in China but you are doing something wrong. [:)]

Thanks, I'm already doing some bombing, although not as much as I would like ... this is scenario 1. Not enough air groups, not enough LCU's. Most of my armor is there, more on the way.

Floyd and I basically had a detente ... and I freely admit to having glazed over eyes as soon as I gaze upon China.

I'd be happy for you to look at the next save if you want ...

Maybe you thought it was a detente in China -- I was maneuvering. I had things set up for some thrusts back, and Nemo is taking advantage of that.

Thanks for making his job easier [;)]

You had two good opportunities to break through and wreak havoc.

First was outside Nanyang, but you stopped and then let me beat back your armor. I had nothing behind my thin line, so a breakthrough would have been devastating.

Second was at Wuchow. You took that base when I was toying around Amoy, and then again, stopped. You stalled when you should have advanced.

Yes, my bad.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Damian,

You can't afford as the IJ to sit back in China. The game balance is such that as the IJ you need to really prosecute china early or suffer staggering consequences when those gigantic china units gain morale and exp. If you don't turn the tide quickly in china, Fionn will own Fusan in mid-43.

Put into context, Burma is side-show. No matter what the allies do there, its almost impossible to walk overland to Shanghai in time to make any difference. But a stack starting near Sian can be at the wrong end of the Korean penninsula in 9 months.

Get your bombers in gear. Its how I finish training my bomber pilots. I get them to 60-ish skill (40 exp), then put them into a china bomber unit to get their skill up to 70's and exp up to 60's. Then they are ready for my pool. They can gain that 20 exp in 30 - 40 days.

Good advice and I'll try to make things harder, but I really hate the fluidity in China. I need to play against the AI more.

24 Aug, '42

Well 5 Allied Amphib TF started unloading at Ramtree. The Allies got some 4K troops ashore before my SCTF arrived. I took a gamble that this was the port of entry (hell there is no other place to land) It wasn't the best SCTF, but the best I could muster given the time I had available.

1 CA and 10 DD's came across CL Hobart and DD Electra. Right at the beginning of the combat, DD Tachikaze hit another ship and was the only casualty on my side. Pity to lose a DD to bad luck. The Allied CL and DD were heavily damaged but so was my CA. After this encounter my SCTF decided not to go for the transports and headed home. I'm thinking that Tachikaze caused the TF to turn tail.

A Para drop on Ramtree was ineffective, but that was to be expected given that I only had a small Transport unit flying them in. Most of my transports had been at Ominato supplying Etorufu or at Port headland supplying my Div stuck at Carnarvon. Fast Transports have extracted some of the Div but I wish these ships were at Ramtree instead.

After the Para-drop came some aerial encounters, Fionn seems to have stacked Akyab with fighters and is flying LRCAP to Ramtree. My Oscars were doing the same from Rangoon and Magwe, so a nice little melee ensued. I lost about 12 Vals, 7 Oscars, 6 Nells for about 8 AK hits.

In other news:

[*]Shimushiri was heavily bombed and the Allies are losing the ability to CAP the base.
[*]The Allied stack near Chengchow was crushed. 67 casualties to 2527 at odds of 1:99

[n01487477]

25-26 Aug, 42
Burma: On the 25th, my CA STFC hit Ramtree with less than wonderful results. One DD was lost to a mine, so in 2 days I've lost 2 DD's (one to collision and the other to a mine)[:@]. Fionn had pulled back his transports to Akyab and I decided to follow them to Akyab for the following turn. They obviously were ordered Nth and I've lost sight of them. My BB's are about 5 days away and when they arrive I'll see if I can sort it out.

In the air on the 25th, I decided to LB Akyab, heavy losses to my bombers resulted with little help from sweeps. He must be heavily over stacked but I'll counter that in a few days - I hope. This action was all a bit of an IF anyway; If he had maintained his LRCAP of Ramtree TF's then it might have gone a bit better. As it was, I got hammered, oh well...

China: The chinese stack seemed to have re-emerged as a threat on the 25th, with heavy losses to both sides and rested on the 26th. I expect a shock attack tomorrow. We'll see if my lines hold. I'm throwing a bit more in there, but maybe I should just withdraw back to a base. Ground LB attacks continue on the Chinese and losses are 300+ for each day.

Sub action: My subs finally get some hits around Attu and off of Carvarvon, Perth & Sydney. Small AK's seem to be the order of the day, but also an AD attempting to get to Attu.

Carnarvon: Seems like Fionn is trying to smuggle in some supplies. I really should have done the same, but I'm trying to save Darwin at present and his BB's are still lurking either at Geralton or Perth. I also expect at some point to see these off of Burma. My FT is inbound again to try to reclaim the 200AV (oh and the men) in the Div still there. My CVL's hit the small TF after a successful sub attack. But they need to go and replenish soon at Port Hedland.

Daly Waters: The withdrawal to Katherine continues. Fionn seems to have stopped moving Nth and I bombed his forces with the one Helen unit I have available there. 100 ground losses.

Sth Pacific: Most of the larger lcu's have been moved back to Rabaul, Japan or Darwin. CVL Shoho is on her way to Australia and then Burma. She will be joined by the slower CV Hiyo after she completes minor repairs.

Shimishuri-Jima: Port and Airfield attacks continue. Very hard to close this base even with limited supplies, the Allies seem to have enough engineers here to keep it dangerous. I can't afford a few days of bad weather. Finally finished off DD Selfridge that had been lurking around here too. My Kates put two torp's into her.

KB: re-provisioned with supplies and planes is about to depart Yokahama. She took on about 40 Zero's, 35 Vals and 45 Kates. Pilots are at a premium, a/c pools are now nil.

More later tonight [;)]

[n01487477]

27 - 28 Aug '42
Subs : More sub action than I've had for the last 250+ days again.
[*]Hit a TK off Diamond Harbour (India)
[*]Surfaced sub shells AKL off Ramtree; ammo expended.
[*]ACM hit by 2 torps off Shemya Is.(Aleutians)
[*]AK hit by torps and shells at Carnarvon.
----
[*]ACM torpd off Buldit Is (Aleutians)
[*]AKL shelled off Ramtree.

Aleutians:
My SS's are picking up large convoys and ship operations in the area.

Kuriles:
LB, TB & DB attacking ports and airfields again. Some of this is for training purposes too. My pilots come in at 24 exp.

China:
[*]Looks like Fionn has given up on taking the field outside Chengchow after an attack on the 27th which saw 6k to 1k losses for the chinese. It looks like he is moving the stack to Loyang. My forces are intact and are retreating back to base to cover other options.
[*]Strat bombing of Ind in china has started.

Carnarvon:
FT picks up more of my cut-off Div and TB from mini-kb make nice work of his supply replenishment force. A SCTF finishes them off the next day.

Ramtree Is.
Not much going on in terms of TF V TF. But I lost a load of kates that flew to Akyab by mistake. Got a few hits on transports but I covert the planes and pilots.

Fionn tells me he had 6k PP's to buy out units. CRAP! I can't deal with 4 divs ...

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Strat bombing of Ind in china has started.

Alfred had some excellent thoughts on this in his long strategic analysis last week.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Strat bombing of Ind in china has started.

Alfred had some excellent thoughts on this in his long strategic analysis last week.

Yep, and I've still been remiss in not replying...[:(]

Could have been so much better ...