Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper)

[smokindave34]

Turn 6 - AGN

The pocket I was hoping to pull off north of Pskov turns into nothing as Sapper forces Totenkopf to retreat and his units move North. A decent turn here as I win most of my battles and a large number of Soviet divisions that join in as reserves join in losing battles - hopefully this will notch down Soviet morale a bit. I've put my best commanders in I and II corps as they have the best German infantry divisions. I've also added artillery and pioneers to these corps to help their cause.

[smokindave34]

Turn 6 - AGC

This is very frustrating! I've never had so much trouble making progress in this area and as each turn slips by Sappers forts get more deadly. I crossed the Dnepr with two strong (15CV+) panzer divisions only to see them pushed back by Sapper. One tactic Sapper has used is to attack my panzers with single infantry divisions multiple times prior to his main assault. He loses at odds of 90-1 for a few attacks and then commits 8 divisions to the final attack and pushes me back. I don't like it and think its gamey however he claims he is doing it as recon. I don't suspect he will change and I'm not sure how to counter this.....


I did manage to break down a few forts in the landbridge area so hopefully when I do breakthrough I can get get some momentum.

2nd panzer army crosses in two spots - 3 armor divisions near Mogilev and an infantry division in a swamp further south. Hopefully 1 of the 2 will hold.

[smokindave34]

Turn 6 - Velike Luki.

I forgot the screenshot of XXIX Pz corps and 2nd army. They continue to make slow progress towards VL. I.m starting to think I may be wasting my mobile units here and I'm considering sending this Pz corps north to help assault Leningrad. The way this game is going has me worried that if I don't take Leningrad and free up the Finns I could be toast during the blizzard. Thoughts......

[smokindave34]

Turn 6 - AGS

6th army crosses the Dnepr! Sapper sent most of his unit south towards Cherkassy to counter me so I'm hoping that 17th army can cross the river near Kiev. He seems thin behind Kiev. I rest all but one corps of my panzers this turn. Riga falls this turn also.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Yah the tactic of constant ant attacks to lower fatigue and ammo is an old one. I used it against the Neva line in my first mp game. I attacked across the Neva with 9 hasty attacks to weaken the defender before hitting it with everything I had. Its cheesy but in a week at a time game I still believe its a valid tactic. Hopefully the overall morale gain makes it worth it to the defender.

[Don77]

G'day

I'd agree with Michael T - I am playing another CG and have found that the Sov units are now sufficiently strong that the Ge offensive requires more concentration at the main effort, and more economy of force elsewhere. In our game, it is T13 I have ground to a halt 4 hexes short of Leningrad, I am stalled in front of Smolensk, and and struggling to get to Voronezh or Rostov. The corollary is that Sov units routinely now make successful counter attacks. I have been threatened many times with counter-pockets and in fact I may be faced with a war winning/losing action shortly.

All up, the operational level feels right, ie the Ge are slowing down at this operational depth, but I fear the tactics give too much power to the Sovs to make key tactical victories?

Appreciate anyone else's thoughts?

Don.

[Michael T]

I am convinced the 1:1 thing needs to go from the game completely. The Soviets don't need it anymore with an effective NM of 50.

[Michael T]

The remedy is simple enough. Lower Soviet morale by 5% or raise German by 10% or some other combination. We can do this in the pre game settings. I won't begin another game without some adjustments here. Playing as either as German or Soviet.

[timmyab]

Expert Soviet players are unplayable with the game as it is.I hate to say it, but I think this game is done already.
The multiple low odds attack tactic is pretty cheesy.Very low odds attacks should be punished by massive casualties with little to show for it.

[Michael T]

Yep, the Devs left the stage before the final act [&:]

[Flaviusx]

I've long felt that low odds attacks should result in no fatigue or ammo reduction for the defender. Anything below 1:1. Just a straight up simple rule here. The attempts to reign this in to date have been overcomplicated and ineffective.

Launching a series of weak and uncoordinated attacks ought to be punished and not rewarded. That still leaves you with bombing cheese, though, but that at least can be held down to a dull roar with house rules which it seems most everybody is using now.

[carlkay58]

One of the 'fixes' in version 6.2x was a fix to the multiple attacks draining the supplies and fatigue of the defending units. I have seen the tests that were run before and after the fix and they really did fix the major problem. What it comes down to is that Sapper most likely could have done the single large attack and won right off the bat now.

I am a playtester for WitW and believe me when I say that the developers and programmers are still keeping up with what is being said on the WitE forum and working to fix the problems in WitW so that WitE 2.0 will be a MUCH better game. Unfortunately, that requires patience, something that is hard to have at times.

[smokindave34]

Turn 7 - Finns

The Finns continue south without any resistance in their path. Sapper did place a unit in the northern most port that feeds Leningrad.

[smokindave34]

Turn 7 AGN (Pre move)

I performed a HQ buildup of 4th panzer last turn hoping to make some progress towards Leningrad however when I opened Sappers turn I saw that he had built an imposing wall in front of Leningrad so I decided to send 4th panzer SE instead. Hammering the panzers against 20-30CV walls is not what they are intended for - I'm going to try and find some open ground to use their MP's.

[smokindave34]

Turn 7 AGN (Post move)

Not too much accompished here as I attacked in the "right hook" direction since Sapper was weaker in that area. The prospects of taking Leningrad don't look to good.

[smokindave34]

Turn 7 VL area (Post move)

4th panzer sloshes through the swamps but manages to get a little breathing room. If I can ever get Sapper lines moving (and thats a BIG if) he may be hurt by the fact that he has ALL his units forward - he doesn't have any forts or defense in depth (but at this point he hasn't needed it!).

This certainly isn't good tank country but if I can clear the Dvina river I may get to open ground.

[smokindave34]

Turn 7 AGC (Pre move)

My panzers and infantry are pushed back again by Sappers repeated attacks. [:@]

[smokindave34]

AGC (Post move)

I finally make some headway here with my panzers over the river in force. A few hasty attacks break down some level 2 forts and south of Smolesnk I didn't see a lot of forts so MAYBE I can begin making some headway.

3 of 4th armies best infantry divisions cross over into the swamps and have a defensive CV of 100+. If they get pushed back I may "rage quit" (my new favorite saying I've learned from Sillyflower!)

[smokindave34]

Turn 7 AGS (pre move)

For the first time in this game Sapper does a full scale withdrawal and gives up the Dnepr defensive line.

[smokindave34]

AGS (Turn 7 post move)

My panzers had some fairly good MP's (although I left one motorized unit on reserve and he joined in on a hasty attack on a security regiment [:@]) and they start pushing east towards the big manpower centers. I sent some 17th army units north to keep Sapper honest there - I don't believe there is a singe Red army soldier in the middle of the map.