And now the waiting begins - Xargun (Japs) vs RRoberson (Allies) - No RRobs

[Quixote]

HI Stockpile: 75,442 (Dropped this turn as I expanded some more air R&D and engine factories)
Armaments: 50,471
Vehicles: 6,052 (When I hit 10k I will turn these off -- I like tanks)
Naval Shipyard: 5,307 (I am hovering around this number for past few turns - so it seems I've found the balance)
Mechie Shipyard: 5 (I am so in the red here and not caring)

Keep in mind that CVEs use Merchant points, not Naval points. I agree that you don't have to worry much about having excess Merchant points, but it's probably a good idea to at least have enough that your CVEs don't repeatedly get held up in the queue. Granted they won't win you the war, but when accelerated you do get several CVEs early enough in the war to still be useful.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Quixote

Keep in mind that CVEs use Merchant points, not Naval points. I agree that you don't have to worry much about having excess Merchant points, but it's probably a good idea to at least have enough that your CVEs don't repeatedly get held up in the queue. Granted they won't win you the war, but when accelerated you do get several CVEs early enough in the war to still be useful.

Yeah every couple turns I check the CVEs and make sure they are moving and they are. Unfortunately some of my AOs are not so I may have to take some time and halt a lot more merchant ships.

In my mind, almost any Carrier is worthwhile, at least up to 44 - after that it I don't think it will matter.

[Lokasenna]

I build all CVEs except for the Marus.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: Quixote

I'll also add, though you're welcome to ignore it, that you may not need all of the merchant shipping that you seem to be building. In DDB-C, maybe. In A, B, or stock though, you may just be wasting HI.

We are playing Babes-B. So you are saying I shouldn't worry about the merchie points at all ? I have never made it past late 42 in any PBeM and always am conscience about losing merchants - afraid I will run out when the allied torps work good. What about all the CVEs that are building ? Should I halt a couple ? I also try to let AKs and such build down to 1 or 2 turns left and then halt them. Figuring a ship not on the map cannot be bombed yet - and I don't really need a ton more until later in the game.

Concerning CVEs, I build only those with a capacity of 27. I halt all the smaller ones.

[Xargun]

Mar 1st, 1942



Economy:


HI is not climbing much but hovering around 2500 a turn (2 days), but I am still going full bore on Armaments, Vehicles, Engines and some Aircraft - mostly Zeros and Sally (LBs). The Rufe comes along in a month and my R&D Factories are not 100% repaired, so they better get moving so I can change them to A6M5s. I already have 1 fully repaired A6M5 R&D Factory and I am gaining 2% a day on research on it - but not producing anything from the factory. Is that normal ? I have production turned off on the factory.

I went through a halted most of the APs in the queue hoping they are Merchie points. I have enough APs right now and would rather have the CVEs and AO/TKs than more troop ships that I can't use.


Burma:

Bassein has joined the Co-Prosperity Sphere and Meiktila fell to my attack. 3 Tank units arrived in Burma and are heading up to Meiktila to chase down fleeing British units and run them over.

The fleeing troops from Rangoon have seemed to stop 1 hex SE of Akyab. Not sure why, but thats fine with me. I am air lifting a parachute unit from Bangkok to Rangoon (should finish this turn) and then they will air assault Akyab - recon shows its empty so I hope so. Once I take Akyab, I should be able to cut off the fleeing troops and catch up to them and destroy them.

Some AA units arrived in Burma from the long march from Bangkok and are taking the rail to Magwe. Not much protection, but in 6 months they will be valuable.

I also have 4 Base Force units (bought from Manchukuo) on their way to Bangkok and then into Burma to build up airfields and provide support for the 6-10 air units I will be stationing in Burma permenantly.


Malaya:


All of my troops have crossed into Singapore except for a lone ENG unit - which I am not waiting for - it will arrive in a turn or two. I have ordered all air units to bomb enemy troops in SIngapore this turn and have ordered an deliberate attack. I am fearful for the results, but need to take Singapore to open up the sea lane to Burma so I can move troops and supplies there easier than marching through Thailand.


Borneo:

My troops arrived at Pontianak and are attacking this turn - the base should fall giving me control of the NW coast of Borneo.

Engineers at Brunei have been working hard and the port there is enlarged to size 4 - all convoys will be docking at Brunei from now on. I am allowing the refinery at Miri to repair up to 200 and then will stop. That will help with the oil / fuel ratio and save 100k supplies.


Philippines:

I have been pumping supplies into Luzon as fast as the small ports can unload and finally have a small stockpile built up (16k at Manila). All troops at Clark and Manila are back to full supply although many units are still beat up and resting at Manila. I have ordered a couple fully rested units back to Clark and will be getting ready to attack when they arrive. I'm hoping the poor supply situation will allow the smaller amount of men to take the base.


Mindanao:

Still waiting on troops to march to Malaybalay to help take it.


South Pacific:

I have landed Naval Guard units at Luganville, Tulagi and taken both bases. Another Guard unit will land at Efate next turn.

A remnant of the 14th Div was at Truk and will be arriving at Noumea next turn. This will allow me to split the Divison and head north to Koumac and take it. I am moving the 21st Air HQ to Truk and then either Rabaul or Noumea, along with appropriate Netties. The HQ will probably end up at Noumea once I scramble up some Zeros to
provide cap for the base. I am also going to move an AS to Rabaul or the Solomons to rearm subs operating around New Zealand.


China:

I am approaching Wenchow and trying to surround it with troops before I attack - I don't need the whole load of chinese troops there escaping and having to chase them throughout the south of china - again. So I will take my time and block these units off and eliminate them.

[PaxMondo]

Hey 1000 HI/day in early '42 is impressive saving. I can rarely start saving HI until about May 42.

[obvert]

HI is not climbing much but hovering around 2500 a turn (2 days), but I am still going full bore on Armaments, Vehicles, Engines and some Aircraft - mostly Zeros and Sally (LBs). The Rufe comes along in a month and my R&D Factories are not 100% repaired, so they better get moving so I can change them to A6M5s. I already have 1 fully repaired A6M5 R&D Factory and I am gaining 2% a day on research on it - but not producing anything from the factory. Is that normal ? I have production turned off on the factory.

I went through a halted most of the APs in the queue hoping they are Merchie points. I have enough APs right now and would rather have the CVEs and AO/TKs than more troop ships that I can't use.

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part. The research will begin accumulating toward 100% once the factory is completely repaired, but not before even if some points are repaired. If production is 'off' and the factory is fully repaired you will still accumulate research points as normal, the same as if it was turned 'on.'

APs are made in the merchant yards, yes. I went through and stopped most xAKs and all small xAKL after a certain point. It all depends on what you're doing against subs though. After 1/43 you could need a lot more ships if you're not really concentrating on ASW.

I also turn off all late tankers, CVEs and anything else big other than subs.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part. The research will begin accumulating toward 100% once the factory is completely repaired, but not before even if some points are repaired. If production is 'off' and the factory is fully repaired you will still accumulate research points as normal, the same as if it was turned 'on.'

I just wasn't sure if R&D continues if you don't actually have production of the R&D factory on - I guess for the bonus you have to have this on ? I never payed much attention to R&D in my games until know, so I am an average WitP player, but a noob at R&D.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: obvert
APs are made in the merchant yards, yes. I went through and stopped most xAKs and all small xAKL after a certain point. It all depends on what you're doing against subs though. After 1/43 you could need a lot more ships if you're not really concentrating on ASW.

I also turn off all late tankers, CVEs and anything else big other than subs.

Yeah it looks like Rob is only using his Dutch subs currently so he must be keeping his US subs safe until he gets good torpedoes in 43. I am working on training up my ASW pilots, but its slow going. I hope to push out a couple CVEs in 42 which will allow me to turn other merchant ships back on - I have all CVEs accelerated except for the last 4 (I think) which are all size 8 or 12 CVEs and worthless. I will be halting them as soon as I can.

[Lokasenna]

By the time you get the xAPs from the yards, you don't really need them. Not worth the HI expenditure IMO, so I think you're right on the money here.


Pax: No HI savings for the first 6 months, or "no" HI savings?! Even in the game I took over, I'm still saving ~2k per day in 2/42, before pilot costs (currently in low-20k per month). Am I (and Xargun?) chronically under-building, or something?

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: obvert
APs are made in the merchant yards, yes. I went through and stopped most xAKs and all small xAKL after a certain point. It all depends on what you're doing against subs though. After 1/43 you could need a lot more ships if you're not really concentrating on ASW.

I also turn off all late tankers, CVEs and anything else big other than subs.

Yeah it looks like Rob is only using his Dutch subs currently so he must be keeping his US subs safe until he gets good torpedoes in 43. I am working on training up my ASW pilots, but its slow going. I hope to push out a couple CVEs in 42 which will allow me to turn other merchant ships back on - I have all CVEs accelerated except for the last 4 (I think) which are all size 8 or 12 CVEs and worthless. I will be halting them as soon as I can.

Hey Xargun, if you go to the shipbuilding screen and right click on a ship, it'll changed to "stopped". When that ships gets to the point where it'll begin using points for building (3x durability I think), it won't use those points and thus stop building. You can stop ships before they use points.

Edit: I'm talking about those with grey colored build rate.

[Mike Solli]

Actually, it works with all of them. But, if you do it when the build rate is gray, that ship will never suck build points.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: obvert
APs are made in the merchant yards, yes. I went through and stopped most xAKs and all small xAKL after a certain point. It all depends on what you're doing against subs though. After 1/43 you could need a lot more ships if you're not really concentrating on ASW.

I also turn off all late tankers, CVEs and anything else big other than subs.

Yeah it looks like Rob is only using his Dutch subs currently so he must be keeping his US subs safe until he gets good torpedoes in 43. I am working on training up my ASW pilots, but its slow going. I hope to push out a couple CVEs in 42 which will allow me to turn other merchant ships back on - I have all CVEs accelerated except for the last 4 (I think) which are all size 8 or 12 CVEs and worthless. I will be halting them as soon as I can.

You can train the ASW groups while you fly them as well. Just set to 40% ASW/40% train/20% rest. Once trained in this skill to 65-70, then switch mission to naval bombing but keep the rest the same and they'll train low naval bombing. Then you can add on search if you wish. Most of these pilots last forever as sub AA isn't too deadly. I was only losing 2-3 a month when I had about 10-12 IJAAF 2E groups on these missions.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Actually, it works with all of them. But, if you do it when the build rate is gray, that ship will never suck build points.

OMG - Are you kidding me ? I never knew that and I consider myself good at Japanese Economy. I will check tonight with all those worthless CVEs and the RO subs (I like to stop them until I get more important ships done).

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: obvert
You can train the ASW groups while you fly them as well. Just set to 40% ASW/40% train/20% rest. Once trained in this skill to 65-70, then switch mission to naval bombing but keep the rest the same and they'll train low naval bombing. Then you can add on search if you wish. Most of these pilots last forever as sub AA isn't too deadly. I was only losing 2-3 a month when I had about 10-12 IJAAF 2E groups on these missions.

So you need Low Naval bombing to hit the subs ? So good ASW pilots have good Naval Search, ASW and low naval bombing ? I usually only train ASW and Naval Search.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: obvert
You can train the ASW groups while you fly them as well. Just set to 40% ASW/40% train/20% rest. Once trained in this skill to 65-70, then switch mission to naval bombing but keep the rest the same and they'll train low naval bombing. Then you can add on search if you wish. Most of these pilots last forever as sub AA isn't too deadly. I was only losing 2-3 a month when I had about 10-12 IJAAF 2E groups on these missions.

So you need Low Naval bombing to hit the subs ? So good ASW pilots have good Naval Search, ASW and low naval bombing ? I usually only train ASW and Naval Search.

If this is true, no wonder why my ASW groups can't hit the water. [8|]

[Xargun]

Mar 3rd, 1942


Just a quick update.


Malaya:

My first attacks against Singapore brought the forts down to level 1 with losses at 9200 IJA and 6800 Allied. A lot of my losses are disabled and his were destroyed. Also 3 Allied units were destroyed in the attack. I am resting the men for a turn while the bombers continue the harrassment and will attack again next turn. Will need to decide whether to do a normal (deliberate) attack or Shock him.


Luzon:

Troops are back at Clark and I am attacking this turn. All bombers in Luzon are targetting troops at Clark as well. With a bit of luck Clark will fall.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: obvert
You can train the ASW groups while you fly them as well. Just set to 40% ASW/40% train/20% rest. Once trained in this skill to 65-70, then switch mission to naval bombing but keep the rest the same and they'll train low naval bombing. Then you can add on search if you wish. Most of these pilots last forever as sub AA isn't too deadly. I was only losing 2-3 a month when I had about 10-12 IJAAF 2E groups on these missions.

So you need Low Naval bombing to hit the subs ? So good ASW pilots have good Naval Search, ASW and low naval bombing ? I usually only train ASW and Naval Search.

If this is true, no wonder why my ASW groups can't hit the water. [8|]

Many say you don't need low naval training, but why not? It's also kami training! [;)]

I fly at 1k so all are trained low naval at some point. Jake pilots too, at least until the attrition rates got really high for Jakes. So now I have a whole range of very well trained kami pilots who can also hunt subs, do naval search and many have ground bombing skill from the China days. They can't perform all of those missions in the kami groups, but they do allow some flexibility for who goes in what.

I began doing this as soon as I could get bombers out of China. So far the Allies have lost in the range of 115-120 subs in this game (against JockMeister). In my other game I notice before getting the low naval training I'm getting a lot of sub sightings, a few attacks, but few subs on the sunk list and the ones that are operating near my bases seem to be able to just hang out there unhindered. This also makes me think the low naval is key, as these pilots haven't added it yet.

It would be great if there was a message for ASW strikes, something more than 'attacked at ''/'' ' and showing how many bombs, how many hits, etc. I guess it models the underwater aspect of this, that it's even harder to see what happens from the air when attacking these guys.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: obvert
I began doing this as soon as I could get bombers out of China. So far the Allies have lost in the range of 115-120 subs in this game (against JockMeister). In my other game I notice before getting the low naval training I'm getting a lot of sub sightings, a few attacks, but few subs on the sunk list and the ones that are operating near my bases seem to be able to just hang out there unhindered. This also makes me think the low naval is key, as these pilots haven't added it yet.

I wondered - I train Naval Search and ASW and get lots of sightings, but few attacks and even fewer hits. So maybe Low Nav Bombing is the trick. I will try it.

Speaking of Kamikaze's do they use low naval bombing too ? Even torpedo ones ?

[obvert]

All kamis use low naval. Any plane usually using a torpedo will carry bombs for a kami group.

Peggy (T) are expensive, but fast and durable, and they get through CAP better than most 1E planes. A very good kami. The Judy and Grace should also be good, although I've not tried many of those yet. Still have a lot of good pilots to work through.

Once kamis are active more planes will 'sacrifice for the emperor' if damaged while attacking, and thus even DBs and TBs performing their usual attacks will sometimes make kami attacks.