Concept - Allied Aircraft 'Purchases'

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: JuanG

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Juan,

So, I just need to download the graphic files for this right? Then, really it is just updating the data files to add the bases and then the units into those bases.

There are no graphic files by me released at the moment. If you'd like I can upload the ones I've used in the examples above, but its rather straightforward to make your own. As Symon pointed out however, its probably better to just use the normal map as it just adds more files to juggle, and doesn't really add all that much.

Apart from that, there are the two variants I've uploaded based on DBB templates, but making your own is rather easy (see instruction on post #33), or, if you let me know what scenario template you'd like one done for I can make one and upload it with those 'basic' changes added.

Oh, I had planned on using the WPEH13.bmp and WPEN13.bmp files in your download ... will they work? The db changes, I can handle just fine. I read you r post and looked into your files. makes perfect sense to me. Just wanting to confirm the graphics portion. I'm challenged there. Not only am I color blind, but I can't even draw a circle. [;)]

[JuanG]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: JuanG

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Juan,

So, I just need to download the graphic files for this right? Then, really it is just updating the data files to add the bases and then the units into those bases.

There are no graphic files by me released at the moment. If you'd like I can upload the ones I've used in the examples above, but its rather straightforward to make your own. As Symon pointed out however, its probably better to just use the normal map as it just adds more files to juggle, and doesn't really add all that much.

Apart from that, there are the two variants I've uploaded based on DBB templates, but making your own is rather easy (see instruction on post #33), or, if you let me know what scenario template you'd like one done for I can make one and upload it with those 'basic' changes added.

Oh, I had planned on using the WPEH13.bmp and WPEN13.bmp files in your download ... will they work? The db changes, I can handle just fine. I read you r post and looked into your files. makes perfect sense to me. Just wanting to confirm the graphics portion. I'm challenged there. Not only am I color blind, but I can't even draw a circle. [;)]

Hm. Seems I completely forgot that I actually included those in the upload.

My apologies for the confusion. Yes, they will work (with both EM & Stock as far as I know), though they are not necessary. Without them the bases will simply be on the gray 'off-map' area with no hex borders around them.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: JuanG


Hm. Seems I completely forgot that I actually included those in the upload.

My apologies for the confusion. Yes, they will work (with both EM & Stock as far as I know), though they are not necessary. Without them the bases will simply be on the gray 'off-map' area with no hex borders around them.

Hey, NP! You did some great work here. I can't wait to be using. It does mean a restart for me. [X(] Again. [:(] I haven't been able to get past Jun42 for the last 6 starts! [&:][&:][&:]

[rook749]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

#3: Unfortunately not - the supply convoys are limited to deliver weapons like arty, vehicles, tanks etc. that can be found on the "Devices" tab in the editor - aircraft are in a seperate category.

I did a little test of this. I was able to assign airframes to a convoy and then when the convoy disbands the aircraft are placed into the pool. I was then able to add the airframes to an air group. One caveat is that when you place airframes in a convoy it appears (at least when I tried it) that you only get 1/4 of the planes you put in the editor. So in other words if you put in the editor 100 planes, when the convoy disbands you actually get 25.

Just catching up to this, so if I understand correctly we could also add these to a restricted LCU? If this is the case could we do something like add an AA unit similar to the retrained AA unit for the British that arrives in 44? The units could be restricted and arrive in Port Stanly, you would then need to use PPs to change the HQ to strategically redeploy them to the East Coast and disband them to get the airframes.

We could then create a dummy gun to control the cost of PPs. Or am I off in left field and totally missing something?

[John 3rd]

WE shall be integrating this idea into the new Treaty--RA--Between the Storms Mods (50--55--60)...

[John 3rd]

BUMP

[oldman45]

I am still concerned about the numbers, if the players start buying P40's in numbers that historically would hurt the release of those planes to AAF squadrons in Africa or even those planes that were supposed to be sent to Allies what then? I like the concept but (to be fair I have not looked at your setup) I think that the planes available should have their PP price based on availability and "age" ie obsolete planes would be more plentiful and cost less. P38's and P-40's should be expensive early in the war.

[John 3rd]

That is the concept Oldman. Obsolete are cheaper then current and 'new' is TRES expensive. Juan has put a bunch of time in for this rollout.

We'll immediately use it in Treaty as a 'testbed' and RA 7.0 won't come out for a few weeks after. Testing can reflect lessons learned and then added into RA. While RA comes out the work completes with the debut of Between the Storms. Figure from Treaty coming out to BTS will be about a month of time. Lessons gleaned from the earlier releases should really HELP.

[oldman45]

Thanks John, I know its a mod, but in the back of my mind I keep thinking about Europe first and how hard it would be to release aircraft to the Pacific.

[John 3rd]

Completely agree with that. This, to me, is why it has to be SO EXPENSIVE. Pulling those planes hurts elsewhere. Would be fun to try and figure out a counter. If you buyout 2,000 VP of planes then the Axis get x. If you buy 4,000 Vp then...

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Completely agree with that. This, to me, is why it has to be SO EXPENSIVE. Pulling those planes hurts elsewhere. Would be fun to try and figure out a counter. If you buyout 2,000 VP of planes then the Axis get x. If you buy 4,000 Vp then...

Yes. Cost should be in VP's And PP's. But maybe less air frames available as well. I'm going to look closer at the chart Juan made. GP

[JuanG]

ORIGINAL: General Patton

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Completely agree with that. This, to me, is why it has to be SO EXPENSIVE. Pulling those planes hurts elsewhere. Would be fun to try and figure out a counter. If you buyout 2,000 VP of planes then the Axis get x. If you buy 4,000 Vp then...

Yes. Cost should be in VP's And PP's. But maybe less air frames available as well. I'm going to look closer at the chart Juan made. GP

Sadly as far as I know there is no way to make them 'cost' VPs, so PP's are what we have have to work with.

Also, while there are a fair number of airframes, a lot of that is to provide sufficient variety. Buying them all out costs several years worth of PPs for what is in '43/'44 terms not all that many aircraft. This is why I think its important that scenarios that implement this do not increase PPs/day just to allow for these - they should definitely be a serious trade-off choice compared to LCU/Airgroup transfer costs, etc.

[btd64]

Juan, Thats fine. I'm fairly good a managing the air frames anyway, But if your in a jam this could help some players. At a cost. Just got your turn. Talk to you later. GP

[moore4807]

General Patton,

As one of those who was not very good at managing airframes... I "helped" to inadvertently push this topic by suggesting the airframes availability should have a variable, such as the Japanese. I did not mean to offend anyone, but drew the ire of several for my poorly worded comments.

The basis for my belief is having visited Linden NJ where the late F4F-3/FM-1 factory was, I read the article that the early manufacturing done by GM could have been a 24 hour operation within 6 months, but was not deemed necessary by the Gov't and plane contracts were not offered to maximize capacity at that facility. If the war was going as badly for the real life counterparts as was my futile efforts against John3rd - I contend those contracts most assuredly would have been offered!!!

So for the hypothetical question - what was the USA's construction capability and production if we really had our backs against the wall? I recently read the book "Battle for the Atlantic" by Costello & Hughes and there are two references that Admiral King refused requests from Britain for B-24 Liberators and other aircraft for sub suppression/interdiction duties off Iceland's "air gap" These were aircraft destined for the Pacific and from the books point of view, the British were fuming that Adm. King did not appreciate the predicament they were facing.

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: moore4807

General Patton,

As one of those who was not very good at managing airframes... I "helped" to inadvertently push this topic by suggesting the airframes availability should have a variable, such as the Japanese. I did not mean to offend anyone, but drew the ire of several for my poorly worded comments.

The basis for my belief is having visited Linden NJ where the late F4F-3/FM-1 factory was, I read the article that the early manufacturing done by GM could have been a 24 hour operation within 6 months, but was not deemed necessary by the Gov't and plane contracts were not offered to maximize capacity at that facility. If the war was going as badly for the real life counterparts as was my futile efforts against John3rd - I contend those contracts most assuredly would have been offered!!!

So for the hypothetical question - what was the USA's construction capability and production if we really had our backs against the wall? I recently read the book "Battle for the Atlantic" by Costello & Hughes and there are two references that Admiral King refused requests from Britain for B-24 Liberators and other aircraft for sub suppression/interdiction duties off Iceland's "air gap" These were aircraft destined for the Pacific and from the books point of view, the British were fuming that Adm. King did not appreciate the predicament they were facing.

moore4807, I think the air frame purchase system is a great idea. I don't find any of this offendable. All I meant was that I may not use the system, much, but it will be nice to have it available if I mess up my management of my aircraft. If you PM me, I can maybe offer you some of my ideas to preserve airframes early in the war for the allies. In terms of the factory in Linden, NJ, I went by there a few times but never looked into it. I grew up in the Marlboro/Freehold/Howell area and moved out in 83. The info about Adm King I heard about in the 90's. I though King was being stupid with his decision making, but then I felt that he didn't have all the facts or possibly was given advise by those who felt the pacific should get more bases on the fact that Japan attacked the US. Just a though. GP

[oldman45]

Keep in mind if you read Operation Drumbeat, Adm King was the same guy that refused help from the Brits when the German U-boats were on their way to the US.

[btd64]

Yeah and now that I think of it, wasn't he the guy who brushed aside the British suggestion to get the cargo ships to travel up the US east coast as convoys so that they didn't get picked off one by one? GP

[wdolson]

When the war started tankers from the US Gulf were going up the US coast in US territorial waters up to Nova Scotia. The main reason the Germans declared war on the US was to hunt these tankers in US waters. In a few weeks they did tremendous damage to the tanker fleet.

Bill

[chemkid]

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[btd64]

Since chem bumped this thread I thought I would attach the instruction zip....GP