Heroes of Stalingrad: What's Next?

[erichswafford]

I just deleted all that crap. I'm sorry - I get a little emotional still.

I did nothing. I'll feel guilty until the day I die about coming back without so much as a scratch. I mean, I've just had a bellyful of it - good men dying. I guess everyone's got a limit. I reached mine. I shouldn't vomit my memories out like that, especially about a game.

Mark's right. It's a game, and a darn good one. Maybe that's all that matters.

On a lighter note, everyone who's into infantry combat tactics should check out the "Band of brothers" series, especially "Ghost Panzer". It's got the LnL simplicity and the designer is a real nut for realistic tactics, but in a non-insanely-complex manner.

It's all about the 4 F's: Find, Fix, Flank, and Finish. BTW, LnL also rewards those tactics. Mark, for such a non-historical SOB, you sure made a pretty dang realistic game when it comes to proper tactics.

Mark: Why should you care that it was the most cataclysmic war in human history?

Answer: Cause Cataclysms just plain Rock.

[:D]

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: wodin

How to make friends and influence people....


So you have no interest in military history..good for you...you fit right in with the general population. The question is why even bother with wargames set within a historical context?

Well we may aswell not bother giving lectures to our soldiers, teach history, or study the past. Funny how Clausewitz is a book that all soldiers at one time where told to study if reading doesn't actually enlighten you to some degree.

Something you are good at is insulting people though.

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: markhwalker



And that would interest me, why? I'm not teaching history, but rather designing a game.

I'm wit you on dat. I get so sick of book worms who throw in what should be in a game or what a game should be about based on what they've read. None of them were there so they don't really know what is truth and what is bunk. I'm interested in a game of challenge, that is all basically. I could care less myself if they are historical as long as they are plausible. You know like no flying saucers or lazer guns in a WWII atmosphere. I think your game is great and brings to the front what computer version of board games should be. Not all this chart reading and pew pew pewing first person crud. So, keep making them like you have been. I'll be on your bandwagon for a long long time. This is the way I've wanted wargames to be for a very long time. No monster games, no 100-1000 pieces to move, no zillion rules and charts, just plain basic strategy and tactics games.

Not an insult just realistic facts. You weren't there so you don't know what is truth and what is bunk. How that is an insult is beyond me. But, of course I don't study the history of insults either. Live long and prosper.[:D]

Oh and another thing. I've been playing "wargames" since the 60's and I've never read or bought a book on the history of the war. It's a game. I play it like a game not a history lesson. I read the rules of how to play it not a history book. I play them like I would a game of chess or checkers not like I was some wannabe general or captain or whatever in a war that happened 50 or more years ago. Some people just take imagination too far. I'm a realist and I live and play as such. If that offends you well, I'm sorry you don't understand my way of thinking but I'm not going to change it for you.

[z1812]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Not an insult just realistic facts. You weren't there so you don't know what is truth and what is bunk. How that is an insult is beyond me. But, of course I don't study the history of insults either. Live long and prosper.[:D]

Oh and another thing. I've been playing "wargames" since the 60's and I've never read or bought a book on the history of the war. It's a game. I play it like a game not a history lesson. I read the rules of how to play it not a history book. I play them like I would a game of chess or checkers not like I was some wannabe general or captain or whatever in a war that happened 50 or more years ago. Some people just take imagination too far. I'm a realist and I live and play as such. If that offends you well, I'm sorry you don't understand my way of thinking but I'm not going to change it for you.

It is not what you say. It is how you say it. Try some thoughtfulness.

[Hexagon]

For me is not only a question of front is a question of interest... there are battles in east front that doesnt wake up my interest... like in west there are overexploited battles in east... and even when you like a new title for them you prefer other battles.

Find a wargame covering the WWII Bermudas triangle is not hard.. Normandy-Market Garden-Bulge other battles have titles to but not in the numbers of these.

This is why i prefer something new or at least less exploited or worst covered, i know in the end is a question of do something you like and people want but this reduce the options a lot.

I prefer see a title covering other front, no the east, and if cover something out of the WWII Bermudas triangle better, this is why i prefer a desert title or a Pacific title... other option is do a mixed title half east half west and with what if parts... i think in Berlin 45, the race to take the city and start of WWIII, could be fun have in same side USA+UK+Germany VS soviets, this open a lot of options.

We need wait a year or similar to see what they decide but this "what do you want next" threads are allways wellcome [:)]

[midgard30]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

For me is not only a question of front is a question of interest... there are battles in east front that doesnt wake up my interest...

At the tactical scale, squad level, I'm looking for diversity in units and terrain/scenario type. I don't really care where firefights occur as long as the theater of operation offers a favorable ground for this. I see scenarios, especially small ones, as puzzles to solve. I like it when there are many kind of units (fusilier with long range rifle, sub-machine gun, recon, combat engineers, mortars, snipers, APC, AFV, ATG, artillery, etc.), usually in the same scenario and on board. In a scenarios pack I hope to see different kind of objectives: fights in village, town, districts, or on the outskirt, forest, marsh, river crossing with or without a bridge, hilly areas (where units can hide behind crest), etc.

I want to be able to fire and maneuvre, to make frontal attack, to move by envelopment, by turning movement, by infiltration, by deception, etc.

This is why I prefer large maps with different type of units: more decisions to take and different approaches to reach objectives. I want to win because my decisions were better than my opponent's ones

That being said, the Pacific and the jungle setting is a theater that I didn't play much and is appealing.

[Hexagon]

Well, to be fair i dont like to the "mini island" fights (interested on them but not my favourite apart maybe Guadalcanal) but Pacific is a lot more... for example, HoS has an equivalent in Philippines campaigns, you can do a title with 1941 and 1944/45, both sides defending and attacking, many tactical situations and even you can have guerrilla scenarios and commando actions (historical or from movies hehehe).

Other out of mini island fight in Pacific is the Malaya campaign in 42 or the fight in China (you can even cover early war before 1941 with a lot of exotic equipment) that you can expand to chinese civil war to.

I am with you that in tactical level and in a game like this you only need the counters to recreate any action but start with a title covering an interesting battle/period help a lot [:)]


PD: maybe the main question is... separate title to cover WWII or a "Field of glory" system??? you know, you have the base game and you buy "packs" to complete it, both options have good things and bad things.

[midgard30]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon
PD: maybe the main question is... separate title to cover WWII or a "Field of glory" system??? you know, you have the base game and you buy "packs" to complete it, both options have good things and bad things.

Especially with a game like LnL where the system is not going to evolve much. I like the idea of scenarios packs instead of stand alone games.

For the Pacific, I think Guadalcanal may offer nice battles. But I agree it may become repetitive. But I'm opened to any theater. I played a couple of Vietnam ones that surprised me pleasantly.

[wings7]

From Mark's blog "Or how about the Pacific? The board game version of Heroes of the Pacific is off to the printers this month. It seems like a slam-dunk to take that art, feed in a year’s worth of pain, and release a computer game version."

I would welcome the Pacific! [:D] Also, this great game has that ASL feel in many ways (also the opposite)! This is winning game system and it needs to be added to and tweaked, I look forward to playing this series (hopefully) in the years to come!! [:)]

Patrick

[fran52]

And I agree with you!

[maitrebongo]

Hello,

Me too (i agree with you...[;)]) Doesn't matter what period or what war will be modelled, LnL's computer system is exactely what i dreamed since long years (in fact, since the arrival of steel panthers by SSI who show us what a computer can do for whose who play paper wargames like Advanced Squad Leader).
Lock 'n Load Heroes of Stalingrad is a perfect balance between very very nice graphics, simple but dynamics rules and a lifetime without limits thanks to its modding capacities.

I would like to thanks its creators to give us such a game. It's like a christmas gift when i was a kid [&o]

Bongo

[usgrandprix]

I'll second that. This is my favorite computer game ever.

As for what's next I vote for Heroes of the Gap. What can I say, I'm a child of the 70s. My thinking is also that that would mean that they would have to work out helos and more sophisticated air/AA unit rules, ATGMs, amphib, modern imaging, units with multiple ord attacks, move-fire-move, new skill cards, etc. and we can build more units backward from that.

I'd also like to see Market Garden and anything WWII pacific.

[fran52]

I'd also like to see Market Garden and anything WWII pacific.

The same for me

[Hexagon]

There are a lot of options, all good... somedays i wake up in WWIII mode but not allways [:D]

Maybe i think the biggest chance is in a west title covering 1944, Normandy, Market Garden or Bulge, in WWII wargames is a "100% hit" specially for a "west" market but in my case after years of these titles even when i like them i start to be overflow of titles from this triangle.

After an east title in WWII i see change front a must have, at least front, change war is interesting to... my list of what i want see is made by:

1-Pacific in WWII, maybe something out of the classic island fights, at least the bloody assaults in 1943-44, because are many battles in the pacific with "west taste" but out of west apart Pacific classics.
2-Desert fight, i think Heroes of the Mare Nostrum is a good idea for a wargame, using italians as base you can cover desert campaign and you have in a game material to cover from 1940 to 1943-44-45 (you only need Elephants and late war Panzerjager, Failschirmjager are present in El-Alamein and you only need SS units).
3-WWIII, in the end heroes of the gap is like Market Garden in 80s using soviets and NATO something very interesting because NATO like germans are made by a lot of patches (USA, WG, UK, French, NL...).

Lets see, i think that any option is going to be wellcome, or is something new or is something well know [8|]

[wodin]

To be honest I'd rather see something Sci Fi...I'm struggling with the game mechanics and linking them in my mind with actual tactics so with a Sci Fi game it for me would matter less and fit better. That WH40K looks a great idea.

[aaatoysandmore]

Oh Please God no Warhammer. I'm so sic of Warhammer this and Warhammer that. Now maybe some Avalon Hill type Starship Troopers? [:D]

But, in all seriousness a good "editor" and some sort of random map generator and then player created scenarios would do the trick as long as it had pacific land based units in the editor. All other factions would be welcome as well and that way everyone could have everything as long as they don't mind building most of it themselves.

[Raindog101]

ORIGINAL: Thomasew


2nd'd .. Forgotten Heroes - Vietnam .. [:)]

Cheers
Tom

Definitely like to see this only with real unit names instead of wimping out like the Squad battles debacle.

[fran52]

We hope to have some news about new title,until now there is silence.

[aaatoysandmore]

So when is "Pacific War: A soldiers tale" coming out? [:D]

[meskary]

I'm in for what ever is next!

[Hrothgar]

I've been busy playtesting a couple other games, so I haven't been around much since the release of LnL. However, I'm still very interested in the future of this system, and eagerly looking forward to the next installment.

I have to admit that the Nazi-Soviet war is my favorite period, but, when it comes down to it, I'd pick up anything Mark decides to do. LnL is a great game, tons of fun to play. My only complaint is the lack of random map scenarios, but I don't know if they can be done--altho the fact that the maps are like isomorphic board game maps would seem to help.

Hope there's solid news soon about the next game.