What the **** is up with the AI Opponent?

[Viktor_Kormel_slith]

That´s the main question Erik and I agree with you. I prefer no AI than no MWIF. In fact, I keep thinking there is no possible good AI for Wif nowdays even eith the Bil Gates´s money! Fix the main bugs and fix the netplay after IMO are the best choice to save MWIF. Keep on working!

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Bo,

ORIGINAL: bo
Even if they did underwrite a loan for Matrix, Matrix would still have done netplay over the AI [:(] and would go into default with very few sales because of that [:D]

In truth, we did not want a "no AI" release, which I think would be pretty clear from looking at all our other wargames. Steve also did not want a "no AI" release. However, at a certain point we all had to accept "no AI" as a better alternative than "no MWIF".

Regards,

- Erik

I can't get on my PC for a couple of days and I missed this clearly worded description of the AI issue (and the realization that the release was premature).
While many of us sensed this was the case on both these issues. Matrix saying so is honest, and while it doesn't fix anything, in time MWIF will be better (IMO).

[WIF_Killzone]

+1

Well said! I also think that forum activity had also fallen off in the last few months before release and the decision to release was based somewhat on that but I could be wrong. The majority of guys still wanted it released at any cost, including me, with a recognition that without an AI some folks wouldn't buy--fair enough. I am not disappointed, as I feel I have already got my monies worth and the bugs just haven't really impacted after the first three months.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Bo,

ORIGINAL: bo
Even if they did underwrite a loan for Matrix, Matrix would still have done netplay over the AI [:(] and would go into default with very few sales because of that [:D]

In truth, we did not want a "no AI" release, which I think would be pretty clear from looking at all our other wargames. Steve also did not want a "no AI" release. However, at a certain point we all had to accept "no AI" as a better alternative than "no MWIF".

Regards,

- Erik

Easy Eric it was just a quip going along with what juntoalmar said about Bill Gates, did a smiley just in case but I guess that went by the wayside, this was not to be taken seriously, remember Eric you did remind several times, the ship has sailed. [;)]

P.S. never mind.

Bo

[WIF_Killzone]

-1 at least he paid attention to you [:D]

[bo]

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

-1 at least he paid attention to you [:D]

Damn WIF never thought of that, sometimes attention is not a good thing, in thinking about your comment about wanting the game released sooner than later without netplay or the AI, I have to admit there was a little, maybe a lot of selfishness on my part because I had the game and had been playing it for two years, I was already enjoying the game.

I felt, release the game when it is ready, not before, easy for me to say because I was playing it everyday. So I offer an apology to all posters who wanted the game out regardless, sometimes I can't see the trees because of the forest or something like that.

Bo

[WIF_Killzone]

+2 that's what it was like

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I guess I should say something here.

===

I first got interested in AI in 1976 while working on my MBA. At that time I was able to read everything that had been published about AI (scholastic journals - no books for the general public existed). In 1980 I joined the AAAI (American Association for Artificial Intelligence) and went to their first annual meeting in San Francisco at my own expense. In the mid 1980's created 2 computer games from scratch, both of which had AI Opponents. Later in the 1980's, I worked for Boeing Computer Services, co-managing a group of 30+ programmers in AI applications. Most of those people had PhD's.

My interest in and enthusiasm for AI has not diminished over the years. So, yeah, I would really like to spend everyday, all day, working on the AIO for MWIF.

But an AIO needs a substrate on which to operate. If the simulated world is defective in any way, then writing the AIO code is a waste of time. Virtually every line of code written would have to be ripped out later and replaced.

So I sit in my foxhole, surrounded by computers and monitors, fixing bugs so I can eventually get to doing what I really want to spend my time on.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I guess I should say something here.

===

I first got interested in AI in 1976 while working on my MBA. At that time I was able to read everything that had been published about AI (scholastic journals - no books for the general public existed). In 1980 I joined the AAAI (American Association for Artificial Intelligence) and went to their first annual meeting in San Francisco at my own expense. In the mid 1980's created 2 computer games from scratch, both of which had AI Opponents. Later in the 1980's, I worked for Boeing Computer Services, co-managing a group of 30+ programmers in AI applications. Most of those people had PhD's.

My interest in and enthusiasm for AI has not diminished over the years. So, yeah, I would really like to spend everyday, all day, working on the AIO for MWIF.

But an AIO needs a substrate on which to operate. If the simulated world is defective in any way, then writing the AIO code is a waste of time. Virtually every line of code written would have to be ripped out later and replaced.

So I sit in my foxhole, surrounded by computers and monitors, fixing bugs so I can eventually get to doing what I really want to spend my time on.

Steve, you've more than paid your dues. I hope you get to pursue your passion for the AIO sooner than later.

By the way, even without an AIO I've gotten more than my money's worth so far out of MWiF. Without it there's no way that I would have even attempted WiF. Cardboard and paper wargames have not been practical in my life for nearly 3 decades now. Back to MWiF ... I'm having a blast and have invested well over 100 hours so far. Maybe even 200 hours so far (who's counting). That comes to a cost of 50c to $1.00 per hour. Any by the years end I expect to have that cost down to less than 10c per hour. That is cheap entertainment.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I guess I should say something here.

===

I first got interested in AI in 1976 while working on my MBA. At that time I was able to read everything that had been published about AI (scholastic journals - no books for the general public existed). In 1980 I joined the AAAI (American Association for Artificial Intelligence) and went to their first annual meeting in San Francisco at my own expense. In the mid 1980's created 2 computer games from scratch, both of which had AI Opponents. Later in the 1980's, I worked for Boeing Computer Services, co-managing a group of 30+ programmers in AI applications. Most of those people had PhD's.

My interest in and enthusiasm for AI has not diminished over the years. So, yeah, I would really like to spend everyday, all day, working on the AIO for MWIF.

But an AIO needs a substrate on which to operate. If the simulated world is defective in any way, then writing the AIO code is a waste of time. Virtually every line of code written would have to be ripped out later and replaced.

So I sit in my foxhole, surrounded by computers and monitors, fixing bugs so I can eventually get to doing what I really want to spend my time on.

Explanation now understood, takes time with me as you well know [:(]

"So I can eventually get to doing what I really want to spend my time on" Is that the AI or Net play Steve [:D] sorry can't help it [;)]

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I guess I should say something here.

===

I first got interested in AI in 1976 while working on my MBA. At that time I was able to read everything that had been published about AI (scholastic journals - no books for the general public existed). In 1980 I joined the AAAI (American Association for Artificial Intelligence) and went to their first annual meeting in San Francisco at my own expense. In the mid 1980's created 2 computer games from scratch, both of which had AI Opponents. Later in the 1980's, I worked for Boeing Computer Services, co-managing a group of 30+ programmers in AI applications. Most of those people had PhD's.

My interest in and enthusiasm for AI has not diminished over the years. So, yeah, I would really like to spend everyday, all day, working on the AIO for MWIF.

But an AIO needs a substrate on which to operate. If the simulated world is defective in any way, then writing the AIO code is a waste of time. Virtually every line of code written would have to be ripped out later and replaced.

So I sit in my foxhole, surrounded by computers and monitors, fixing bugs so I can eventually get to doing what I really want to spend my time on.

Steve, you've more than paid your dues. I hope you get to pursue your passion for the AIO sooner than later.

By the way, even without an AIO I've gotten more than my money's worth so far out of MWiF. Without it there's no way that I would have even attempted WiF. Cardboard and paper wargames have not been practical in my life for nearly 3 decades now. Back to MWiF ... I'm having a blast and have invested well over 100 hours so far. Maybe even 200 hours so far (who's counting). That comes to a cost of 50c to $1.00 per hour. Any by the years end I expect to have that cost down to less than 10c per hour. That is cheap entertainment.

Wow you are lucky rkr 1958, thats way below minimum wage [:D] also when I was very young, gas was 19 cents a gallon, a hoagie cost 25 cents, movies were 11 cents and that included not only the main movie but cartoons, news of the day, and the infamous chapter series that scared the hell out of me every saturday. Your 10 cents an hour brings back all those memories for me thank you[;)] You just made this game a 1950's bargain. [&o] Good post.

Bo

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I guess I should say something here.

===

I first got interested in AI in 1976 while working on my MBA. At that time I was able to read everything that had been published about AI (scholastic journals - no books for the general public existed). In 1980 I joined the AAAI (American Association for Artificial Intelligence) and went to their first annual meeting in San Francisco at my own expense. In the mid 1980's created 2 computer games from scratch, both of which had AI Opponents. Later in the 1980's, I worked for Boeing Computer Services, co-managing a group of 30+ programmers in AI applications. Most of those people had PhD's.

My interest in and enthusiasm for AI has not diminished over the years. So, yeah, I would really like to spend everyday, all day, working on the AIO for MWIF.

But an AIO needs a substrate on which to operate. If the simulated world is defective in any way, then writing the AIO code is a waste of time. Virtually every line of code written would have to be ripped out later and replaced.

So I sit in my foxhole, surrounded by computers and monitors, fixing bugs so I can eventually get to doing what I really want to spend my time on.

Steve, you've more than paid your dues. I hope you get to pursue your passion for the AIO sooner than later.

By the way, even without an AIO I've gotten more than my money's worth so far out of MWiF. Without it there's no way that I would have even attempted WiF. Cardboard and paper wargames have not been practical in my life for nearly 3 decades now. Back to MWiF ... I'm having a blast and have invested well over 100 hours so far. Maybe even 200 hours so far (who's counting). That comes to a cost of 50c to $1.00 per hour. Any by the years end I expect to have that cost down to less than 10c per hour. That is cheap entertainment.

Wow you are lucky rkr 1958, thats way below minimum wage [:D] also when I was very young, gas was 19 cents a gallon, a hoagie cost 25 cents, movies were 11 cents and that included not only the main movie but cartoons, news of the day, and the infamous chapter series that scared the hell out of me every saturday. Your 10 cents an hour brings back all those memories for me thank you[;)] You just made this game a 1950's bargain. [&o] Good post.

Bo

Bo, thanks. It sounds you're longer in the tooth than me, but not by much. [:)] I remember as a boy being able to buy a stamp for 5 cents, a 12-oz coke in a bottle for 10 cents and a pack of cheese, or peanut butter, crackers for 5 cents. It cost me 50 cents to get into a first run of a movie. However; it only cost 25 cents for a summer matinee, or 6 RC bottle caps if the movie theater was running a promotion. Oh, all those Elvis and teen beach movies. [8D]

[WIF_Killzone]

Thanks for piping in Steve. Sounds like you have more experience than god in the SDLC. Must have been a challenge working with those PHD peeps, and actually get them to deliver vs wondering theoretical discussions, then again the work sounds interesting. I always wondered about your background, impressive!

Good to also know you want to kick some AI butt, cant even fathom the accomplishments to date with the game development let alone tackling the AI and I can generally take deep dive into detail. I wrote a compiler years back and that almost broke my brain.

Perhaps you would consider, when the time comes, to put a little of BO's personality into the endeavor. You know, make some random messages appear after a successful AI attack. Then again, you could use one of mine from the forum, such as "take that you idiot" [:D]

Or how about, "I see you want to take Gibraltar, do you think that's a good idea?" or "I see you are building lots of subs" or maybe "I cant believe you just did that but I saw it coming"

Bo, do you have any hidden messages you would like built in, now's the time.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

Thanks for piping in Steve. Sounds like you have more experience than god in the SDLC. Must have been a challenge working with those PHD peeps, and actually get them to deliver vs wondering theoretical discussions, then again the work sounds interesting. I always wondered about your background, impressive!

Good to also know you want to kick some AI butt, cant even fathom the accomplishments to date with the game development let alone tackling the AI and I can generally take deep dive into detail. I wrote a compiler years back and that almost broke my brain.

Perhaps you would consider, when the time comes, to put a little of BO's personality into the endeavor. You know, make some random messages appear after a successful AI attack. Then again, you could use one of mine from the forum, such as "take that you idiot" [:D]

Or how about, "I see you want to take Gibraltar, do you think that's a good idea?" or "I see you are building lots of subs" or maybe "I cant believe you just did that but I saw it coming"

Bo, do you have any hidden messages you would like built in, now's the time.

Hmmm usually I am not at a loss for words, I have to think about this, have Steve put my personality into the game, good lord the AI would fall flat. One hidden message might be "this freaken AI is kicking my butt I am switching to net play" [:D] Sweet dreams huh!

Bo

[wworld7]

Bo,

I've been buried under work but I will send you an email I hope by tomorrow afternoon.

[HansHafen]

I hope you can develop a great AI Steve!

[Rising-Sun]

Well i still have my money too, as soon they release AI then i will buy it and try it out. Once i get a hang of it and like the game, then i will move on to PBEM.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Well i still have my money too, as soon they release AI then i will buy it and try it out. Once i get a hang of it and like the game, then i will move on to PBEM.

Lets see the $100 US you are saving now can be put into the Vanguard funds and 10 years from now you will have enough money to buy a revised edition of War in the Pacific and have change left over[:D] Hmm maybe [:(]

Bo

[Rising-Sun]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Well i still have my money too, as soon they release AI then i will buy it and try it out. Once i get a hang of it and like the game, then i will move on to PBEM.

Lets see the $100 US you are saving now can be put into the Vanguard funds and 10 years from now you will have enough money to buy a revised edition of War in the Pacific and have change left over[:D] Hmm maybe [:(]

Bo

Actually within a year i would have a much better graphics in WitP:AE, been working on something more realistic details on the maps. It does take awhile to do though, and it is FREE.