Do you want bombing VPs? Hit Heavy Industry

[HMSWarspite]

As it logically should be

[NotOneStepBack]

So I just realized something....

I wasn't playing to game the system, I just wanted to win. But in my hunt for VPs I have realized something fundamental about the design.

If I continue to do this and net 10+ Vps a turn, all I have to do is nab the 10 hexes in italy and n europe in order to negate the beachhead penalty....and I'll win because the EF box is off. With the EF box off, there is no incentive to fight because you know the Soviets will take berlin on May 1.

That's the case in our game. With the EF box ON, we already know the limitations of the system. So it actually may be in best order to have the EF box ON, but a house rule that the german can't pull from it...


Thoughts?

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

So I just realized something....

I wasn't playing to game the system, I just wanted to win. But in my hunt for VPs I have realized something fundamental about the design.

If I continue to do this and net 10+ Vps a turn, all I have to do is nab the 10 hexes in italy and n europe in order to negate the beachhead penalty....and I'll win because the EF box is off. With the EF box off, there is no incentive to fight because you know the Soviets will take berlin on May 1.

That's the case in our game. With the EF box ON, we already know the limitations of the system. So it actually may be in best order to have the EF box ON, but a house rule that the german can't pull from it...


Thoughts?

RE: The VPs, I think you are correct; if you can net 10 Vps a turn bombing, then you really just have to minimize losses and allow the Soviets to do the rest of the work in Europe. Iron Curtain ends at the English Channel, but hey, still a victory.

RE: You can't really play EF Box on-don't pull. With Box-off, the player will get certain reinforcements that you will not get if the Box is on, for example several SS units. If the German can't pull from the box, the only SS division you'll ever see is 12ss

[Seminole]

You can't really play EF Box on-don't pull. With Box-off, the player will get certain reinforcements that you will not get if the Box is on, for example several SS units. If the German can't pull from the box, the only SS division you'll ever see is 12ss

9th and 10th SS PzG Div start the 43 campaign on map.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

You can't really play EF Box on-don't pull. With Box-off, the player will get certain reinforcements that you will not get if the Box is on, for example several SS units. If the German can't pull from the box, the only SS division you'll ever see is 12ss

9th and 10th SS PzG Div start the 43 campaign on map.

Forgot about that; no 1ss/2ss though. Maybe that's still a fair trade. The other Panzer units kind of cancel out; you get 14th, 16th, 24th Panzer all-game instead of withdrawn, and you miss 2nd, 9th, 11th Panzer. PzG Feldhernalle is a bonus.

[LiquidSky]

Doesn't the 1st and 2nd SS Panzer's show up as reinforcements if the EF box is not on?

[JocMeister]

I saw the 1st and 2nd SS in my game vs Pelton. EF box OFF.

[marion61]

EF box is okay, it just needs to have a higher cost for pulling out of it. Either make it where you lose VP's too, or higher admin cost to pull from it or both. With the EF box off it's really hard for the axis to keep both northern Europe and Italy covered. In one game I've taken Italy up to Naples, all of Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica with a corps, without a shot being fired yet. He's tied up and committed to containing my Brittany occupation, that he had no troops till recently to man the lines at Cassino. Now I can invade from Rome, to the Netherlands when the weather clears again in the spring.

[whoofe]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The only industries that matter in this category are German Manpower, German HI, oil, fuel, and synthetic fuel. No other damage is used in these calculations.

does Austria count as "German" for these purposes? I had been assuming it did, but was not sure.

[Seminole]

does Austria count as "German" for these purposes? I had been assuming it did, but was not sure.

When you mouse hover over a hex it will show you nationality.
There is no 'Austria' after the 1938 Anschluss.

[Joel Billings]

I think you will be hard pressed to continue to score 10 VPS per turn as time goes on. I could be wrong though. It might be possible to get a draw using this strategy if you minimize your negative points, but I don't think you'll get a win.

[Balou]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The current synthetic fuel situation for the game:

carlkay58

Thus a site that has 50+% damage is out of production

sFuel figures in brackets are damage in % ? If so, then why is damage in some factories as high as it shows ? FOW ? Safety measure ?

[marion61]

I was thinking this too, but atm he's doing 17 to 18 points a turn. After Jan. 44 it will be around 12 points a turn, and in Jul '44 it will be around 9. With the EF box off he could win it. It's turn 14 and he's already over 70 positive vp's and he's getting a lot of vp's not attacking me where I'm strong at, while he still has another 3 months of getting 18 just for his bombing.

He has 13 more turns at the present bombing modifier, and that's 234 points just for bombing. I've got almost no points from u-boats this game since he can send in 100 bombers to each sub city on turn one and I get no sub points for awhile till they repair. He hits them every four turns to keep them suppressed. It seems to me that having just 1% damage to take out the factories is a little low. The other big vp target is HI. He can strike 10 different places, (and I've noticed that my fighters in Germany have very low intercept rates, and I have them near every target he hits or they fly past them)and with a few bomb hits, gains all those bombing points. All he has to do to win, if he played that way was to invade France somewhere safe, get your 10 hexes up there, and wait till the Russians take Berlin May 1st.

It's easily winnable this way I believe.

[NotOneStepBack]

ORIGINAL: meklore61

I was thinking this too, but atm he's doing 17 to 18 points a turn. After Jan. 44 it will be around 12 points a turn, and in Jul '44 it will be around 9. With the EF box off he could win it. It's turn 14 and he's already over 70 positive vp's and he's getting a lot of vp's not attacking me where I'm strong at, while he still has another 3 months of getting 18 just for his bombing.

He has 13 more turns at the present bombing modifier, and that's 234 points just for bombing. I've got almost no points from u-boats this game since he can send in 100 bombers to each sub city on turn one and I get no sub points for awhile till they repair. He hits them every four turns to keep them suppressed. It seems to me that having just 1% damage to take out the factories is a little low. The other big vp target is HI. He can strike 10 different places, (and I've noticed that my fighters in Germany have very low intercept rates, and I have them near every target he hits or they fly past them)and with a few bomb hits, gains all those bombing points. All he has to do to win, if he played that way was to invade France somewhere safe, get your 10 hexes up there, and wait till the Russians take Berlin May 1st.

It's easily winnable this way I believe.

Agreed, and I want to play it out to see if it is possible. I'm nearing 20 bombing vps a turn now, even hitting smaller towns with HI that have no defenses. WA players! Hit HI!!

[Balou]

meklore61,
Basically your bombers go for targets with "high factory point counters" first (VP maths), eg a "30-factory-point" target with nearly 100% damage gives you nearly 3 VPs. True ? But isn't there a divisor ?

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: meklore61
(and I've noticed that my fighters in Germany have very low intercept rates, and I have them near every target he hits or they fly past them)and with a few bomb hits, gains all those bombing points.

You should ask Pelton how he do it. Over Hamburg and the Ruhr I was often hitting a wall of 600+ fighters on my way in and out. On a normal day over Hamburg the 8th would lose 150-250 planes.

[NotOneStepBack]

ORIGINAL: Balou

Basically your bombers go for targets with "high factory point counters" first (VP maths), eg a "30-factory-point" target with nearly 100% damage gives you nearly 3 VPs. True ? But isn't there a divisor ?

Yes, the divisor is the year factor which meklore brought up. That's why you just split your bombers into several groups of about 150 and hit multiple big targets and load them with big bombs. Try it yourself.

This tactic also has the benefit of being able to rest several AGs per turn.

[Balou]

Devs, more ADs please !

[NotOneStepBack]

ORIGINAL: Balou

Devs, more ADs please !

Put in leaders of the air hq that have high admin ratings for more ADs.

[marion61]

I have them set, and they were doing well, but now his air groups are so small I'm not sure the interceptors are seeing them. I'm not sure how that works, but ever since he started using small raids, my intercepts plummeted over Germany. The other thing this does is to make me spread out more, but I have several fighter groups near my largest HI now and I'm still covering uboats. He happens to still be using large strike groups in Italy, and my fighters are intercepting the crap out of them, so I'm starting to wonder if the smaller the strike the better.

I'm not saying intercepting is broken, but it is more difficult to spot 200 planes, than 2000, and my air groups have to cover a lot more territory and can't congregate around just the subs or the vweapons now.