A Glorious Way to Die: John 3rd vs. NY59Giants BTS: Lite

[John 3rd]

Good Questions.

Army Air Choices:
1. Expand Oscars, Lily, and Sally. Be ready for Helen.
2. HEAVILY research Mister Tojo and MISTER FRANK.
3. Produce decent numbers of Recon aircraft.
4. Ditto for Transports.

QUERIES:
1. Your favorite Fighter and WHY?
2. Late-War Army Bombers. Research them heavy? Opinion?
3. Your favorite Recon plane and so how long?
4. Same question with Transports.

Naval Air:
1. EXpand BOTH sides of the ZERO research and building programs.
2. Heavily Research MISTER George.
3. Produce 4EB Bomber in enough quantities to outfit two units: a Chutai and a Daitai.
4. Keep those Betty/Nell going.
5. The second generation of Naval Bombers already come in earlier with the mod so we get Judy and Jill about six months earlier.
6. LOTS of Emily, Jakes, Glens and Tina.

QUERIES:
What are your favorites and why?


I love to run my AAR as a teaching and education commentary for new and experienced players so PLEASE jump in with your opinions...

[1EyedJacks]

Fav Fighter: Depends on the time of the game. I like anything with a center-line 20mm or two that has that 50+ accuracy. The Nick-a FB is (I'm hoping) going to be a great bridge in BTS against the allied fighters coming on-line in mid-late 42. A single 20mm - true - but good pilots and high numbers of them should help level things out. Armor should increase their survival chances in combat. SR of 2 means I'll have to rest them more.

Late-War Bombers: I don't spend much time in research.

Recon plane - Babs. Nice range, single engine , good service rating.

Dive Bombers & Lite Bombers that can carry a 500kg or larger payload - I'll research those. Having those on hand against an amphibious assault or deployed in areas where the allies are trying to run supply convoys - mmm-mmm-mmm!

Question: Why build the Lily?

I wish more of the FP could convert to FF. Of course I feel that way in all the scenarios .

[John 3rd]

Well..Michael's computer has died so we're hung up for the moment.

Funny part of our phone conversation was when he asked if I'd ever thought it would be 'possible' for the Japanese to take Oahu. Hmmm....poker face....hmmm....

I know my Japanese Naval Air Frames pretty well but always look for good advice on the army ones. Mike's comments regarding Nick are interesting what do other people think?

As I see it for the army, early-to-mid 42 use Oscar, late-42--mid-43 use Tojo, and then wait for Frank to crown them all. Not too big a fan of Tony. Will build just enough planes to round-out a unit or two and that will be about it.

Transports always leave me scratching my head. I love TINA for the range! Army transport? Bounce around some. I know some like Topsy and others like Tabby. Where do you sit?

EDIT: I forgot to answer the Lily question. Like to use them for ASW. Will train-up 3-4 army units in ASW and place them at choke points to attack SS.

[Lowpe]

I am not a huge Nick fan, I like Zeroes for early anti-bomber efforts.

Not a huge Tojo fan either, no cannons on the IIc. I like the Tony more than you, but you definitely don't need both.

Can't fault the George/Frank combo.

Late war bombers...you are better off r&d fighters, but I would go for the Peggy T and Grace.

Did you talk about NF?

[John 3rd]

NF? Night-Fighters? If correct then no I have not.

[Lowpe]

Yep, Night Fighters....

Where do you plan on using your 4E bombers the Liz?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Good Questions.

Army Air Choices:
1. Expand Oscars, Lily, and Sally. Be ready for Helen.
2. HEAVILY research Mister Tojo and MISTER FRANK.
3. Produce decent numbers of Recon aircraft.
4. Ditto for Transports.

I go heavy on transports, because I use them for a lot. If you do too, then consider even putting 30 RnD into the Tabby. It's cheaper than the 4Es and more dependable.

QUERIES:
1. Your favorite Fighter and WHY?
2. Late-War Army Bombers. Research them heavy? Opinion?
3. Your favorite Recon plane and so how long?
4. Same question with Transports.

The Frank 'r' is awesome. The Ki-83 is a game changer.

The Grace is the best strike plane in game. Period.

The Dinah III is great, but that's not really a choice. No reason to make the Irving when you have the Judy with one engine and the Myrt later.

Naval Air:
1. EXpand BOTH sides of the ZERO research and building programs.
2. Heavily Research MISTER George.
3. Produce 4EB Bomber in enough quantities to outfit two units: a Chutai and a Daitai.
4. Keep those Betty/Nell going.
5. The second generation of Naval Bombers already come in earlier with the mod so we get Judy and Jill about six months earlier.
6. LOTS of Emily, Jakes, Glens and Tina.

QUERIES:
What are your favorites and why?


I love to run my AAR as a teaching and education commentary for new and experienced players so PLEASE jump in with your opinions...

The Peggy-T is good to get sooner as it'll take some time to train pilots in torpedo dropping.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Funny part of our phone conversation was when he asked if I'd ever thought it would be 'possible' for the Japanese to take Oahu. Hmmm....poker face....hmmm....

Are there really no AARs here where this has been done? I've seen one player pull it off but in another forum:

Ground combat at Pearl Harbor (180,107)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 109555 troops, 1126 guns, 399 vehicles, Assault Value = 3454

Defending force 43869 troops, 967 guns, 1167 vehicles, Assault Value = 520

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 4774

Allied adjusted defense: 1615

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Pearl Harbor !!!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
B-18A Bolo: 2 destroyed
B-17D Fortress: 4 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 15 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed
O-47A: 2 destroyed
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed
P-39D Airacobra: 5 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk: 1 destroyed
P-26A: 1 destroyed
C-33: 1 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4367 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 365 disabled
Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 50 destroyed, 32 disabled
Guns lost 17 (4 destroyed, 13 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (3 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
33439 casualties reported
Squads: 526 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2367 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 138 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 861 (861 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1668 (1668 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 22

You do need a lot of AV to do it, however. But the prize in destroyed VPs is huge to say nothing of the value of just holding the base. The temporary loss of the Akagi certainly hurts but the KB still is the dominant force in the Pacific; you can definitely pull something like this off.

[John 3rd]

OK. Michael sent a turn this morning. We are on again.

Will write a detailed report in the morning but it is good to know things are now moving forward. He had a power supply issue with his PC and all appears to be well currently.

Just a tidbit:

KB launches an afternoon strike at Pearl Harbor. The attack consists of 54 Zero and 89 Kate. They are met by 60 American fighters. The Japanese lose ONE Zero and 12 Kate for over two dozen American fighter planes. RESULTS: BB Nevada takes ONE 800 Kg bomb hit. NOTHING ELSE. Oner 70 bombs are dropped and only ONE HIT is obtained...

[John 3rd]

Combat Report
December 9-11, 1941

Michael and I are rolling again. The chain of action and events has been pretty simple and predictable while still fun.

North Pacific
Etorofu
The conglomeration of 1 CL, 12 DD, and 4 APD begin the lift of an SNLF Assault Brigade to the Aleutians. The Assault Brigades are three of the original SNLF units that are brought together and have a small Headquarters company, some lite artillery, and a bit of support added. The unit is shown as a DIVISION due to how the game works since these unit must be able to breakdown to their component SNLF units. In this case three Fast TF are created and each is carrying a good chunk of the units to Unmak, Adak, and Amchitka. They begin loading on the 11th and will depart of the 12th.

Central Pacific
Wake Island
The 12th will see the invasion of Wake by an entire SNLF Assault brigade. The Invasion Force has a BB embedded within it.

Midway
The Midway Invasion Force departs of the 10th for its target. Saipan handled the loading and departure. A second TF will rendezvous and add a CD unit and Base Force. Escort here is another BB as well as three CVE providing CAP.

The Line Islands
A Fast TF depart Jaliut for Christmas Isle. This TF carries an entire Naval Guard unit. A slightly slower TF (AMC and an AP) depart carrying similar unit for Palmyra. A third TF carries a third Naval Guard as well as two Base Forces.

These are all reasonably 'standard' moves for me so I doubt if Michael will become alarmed at this set of moves.

Reinforcements
The 2nd and 56th IDs have departed and are heading for Kwajalein. Support units include an Air Flotilla, 4 large Base Forces, and several engineering units. One cannot forget supply and fuel. Three TF carrying roughly 100,000 Fuel and 125,000 supply have already departed Japan.

KB
As detailed earlier and completely USELESS attack by the CVs is launched on the 9th. The strike of 54 Zero and 89 Kate ran into 60 Fighters. Roughly two dozen American fighters are shot down; however, they do penetrate a terrible escort and shot down 12 Kates. The bombing runs see another 3-4 Kates destroyed in exchange for just ONE 800 Kg Bomb hit on Nevada! What a waste. Only good news here is that I only lose 5 Kate crews. The planes lost is bad but hardly losing any crews is pretty amazing.

Order KB to escort damaged CV Akagi towards the Marshalls. Everything is good on the 9th-10th-11th and so the carriers leave their sister to cover the Line Islands landings. Akagi displays her tough BC origins by shrugging off the Torp hit. Initial damage SYS 11 FLOT 26. As of the 11th it is now SYS 10 FLOT 23. Unfortunately 22 of the FLOT is unrepairable. CRAP! Akagi will get to Kwajalein and then head for home. Terrible to lose her services so quickly.

South Pacific
Don't have many resources here so we have to be careful. Land and take Manus on the 8th. Land at both Madang and Wewak on the 11th. Will move engineers and a pair of Base Forces here so we can establish a forward set of bases. We'll use a Fast TF to take Finschhaven next.

Philippines
Luzon
Land and take Laoag on the 8th by Fast TF. Bring in a second Base Force on the 10th and begin using the base for Fighters and lite bombers.

Will land the 65th Brigade at San Fernando on the 12th. Though escorted by 4 DDs, a group of PT Boats get into the Invasion TF and sink two PG and an AK on the 11th.

The 48th ID will land at Iba next turn.

Mindanao
My emphasis on this island is readily apparent. Grabbed Cotabato on the 7th with Paras and immediately brought in 24 Kate and 12 Zeros. They do great work on the 9th-11th sinking six to seven ships.

Land and capture Zamboanga, Dadjangas, and Surigao. Land at Davao on the 10th. It falls on the 11th. Moving right along...

Eastern DEI
No immediate action as of yet.

Central DEI
A lot of warships move down the east side of Borneo and sink bunches of ships but no invasions as of yet.

KB-3/KB-4
These two Carrier Divisions move south with the enemy shipping. CARDIV2 (KB-3) moves down the east side of Celebes while KB-4 (3 CVL) moves along the eastern side of Borneo. They both do some serious damage to shipping. The bag for Dec 9-11 is: 1 AKL, 1 AK, 2 YO, 1 AV, 2 AO, 1 PC, 2 AM, 1 AD, 2 AG, 1 AVP, 1 AP, 2 AS, and a TK. They shall attack one more day and then CARDIV2 beats feet east to Truk and to reinforce the KB.

Western DEI
Form a large Fast TF to carrying nearly an entire Regiment to grab Palembang. This TF is escorted by another with 2 CL and 5 DDs. Will land at Palembang on the 12th.

Malaya
LOTS of drama and action! I want to make this a FAST campaign!

Port Dickson
The paratroops capture Port Dickson on the 7th but get forced out on the 10th. A second assault occurs on the 11th and mages to stay in the hex keeping the 11th Indian ID (in strategic mode) from getting to Singers. We'll be forced out next turn probably...

Port Swettenham
This base has a Sz-1 AF. Paras take it on the 8th and immediately begin flying in a Naval Guard and two Base Forces. Move a Chutai of Zeros here for CAP. The airlift goes well with no interference.

Kuantan
The base falls on the 9th and immediately bring in fighters, transports, and bombers. A TK Regiment sets out from here to bolster Temoluh.

Temoluh
Amazingly, Temoluh is captured by about 125 paratroopers on the 9th. The eastern RR is cut off. That was a surprising development.

Mersing
Kuantan falls on the 9th and on the same day Mersing gets the 21st ID landing there. The 4th ID adds weight on the 10th when the base falls. These two ID must RACE to Kloung NOW to but off retreat from the north. There is a 50-50 chance of this happening...

Pretty fun theatre of action with moves and counter-moves going on each day. Michael has been forced to commit the British planes here and we have managed to shot down a good number of Buffalo, Hudson, and other lite bombers. He is holding his Swordfish and Vildebreest back for the 'right' moment.

China
Lots of movement but there is a truce in place until January 1st.

SS Operations
9th
Ro-63 Hits AV Langley near Twai Tawi
I-124 hits AK Tantalus near Sibuyan
Ro-33 SINKS TK Gertrude Kellogg at Naga
Ro-34 SINKS TK La Estella Caltex at Lucena

10th
I-164 SINKS AKL Pahang near Sabang
I-127 SINKS AK Si Kiang at Jolo
I-160 SINKS AK Mundra near Port Blair

11th
I-154 SINKS AP Van den Bosch near Bandjermasin

Those are the reports

Thoughts?

[Lecivius]

I don't usually comment on AAR's because
1) I'm usually an idiot
2) I like to read most of them

That said, I found to my chagrin that IF you cut off PH, and IF your opponent tries to replace/upgrade squadrons under stress, build forts, upgrade the ports & airfields etc, he will start to get hungry @ June. Something to ponder on.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I don't usually comment on AAR's because
1) I'm usually an idiot
2) I like to read most of them

That said, I found to my chagrin that IF you cut off PH, and IF your opponent tries to replace/upgrade squadrons under stress, build forts, upgrade the ports & airfields etc, he will start to get hungry @ June. Something to ponder on.

PLEASE comment---ALWAYS! Sometimes it gets sort of lonely without a few comments tossed into the AAR. Love lots of interaction.

The key to whole Hawaiian Operation is landing at numerous points EVERYWHERE to grab the AFs and force the Americans to spread their counter efforts. It is EASY to take serious losses if just one or two bases are taken. I've tried this once before (long time ago) and learned some serious lessons from it. Minefields will also be essential. I ordered all seven of the ML SS to move to Kwajalein without dropping their pre-war mines. Additional mines shall be carried by the old CLs converted into ML. Got to make it immediately dangerous for any American shipping to enter into one of the Japanese bases.

Figure that Japan has Midway and the Line Islands by the 15-17th, spend 2-3 weeks gathering forces and then attack the outlying islands from both sides.

I recalled all bad I-Boat commanders from the PH area and they all got relieved with 11 new commanders appointed. Those boats left this turn to begin serious patrolling E--NE of PH. There are a dozen I-Boats patrolling off the West Coast presently. A good number of them are Glen boats. Want warning of TFs leaving the West Coast for Hawaii. KB is getting to move east of Hawaii to take a blocking position for that nonsense to stop.

By grabbing Midway and Line Islands I rip Michael's air search screen to shreds. He is outstanding in using his PBY and B-17 as Air Search platforms...

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I don't usually comment on AAR's because
1) I'm usually an idiot
2) I like to read most of them

That said, I found to my chagrin that IF you cut off PH, and IF your opponent tries to replace/upgrade squadrons under stress, build forts, upgrade the ports & airfields etc, he will start to get hungry @ June. Something to ponder on.

PLEASE comment---ALWAYS! Sometimes it gets sort of lonely without a few comments tossed into the AAR. Love lots of interaction.

The key to whole Hawaiian Operation is landing at numerous points EVERYWHERE to grab the AFs and force the Americans to spread their counter efforts. It is EASY to take serious losses if just one or two bases are taken. I've tried this once before (long time ago) and learned some serious lessons from it. Minefields will also be essential. I ordered all seven of the ML SS to move to Kwajalein without dropping their pre-war mines. Additional mines shall be carried by the old CLs converted into ML. Got to make it immediately dangerous for any American shipping to enter into one of the Japanese bases.

Figure that Japan has Midway and the Line Islands by the 15-17th, spend 2-3 weeks gathering forces and then attack the outlying islands from both sides.

I recalled all bad I-Boat commanders from the PH area and they all got relieved with 11 new commanders appointed. Those boats left this turn to begin serious patrolling E--NE of PH. There are a dozen I-Boats patrolling off the West Coast presently. A good number of them are Glen boats. Want warning of TFs leaving the West Coast for Hawaii. KB is getting to move east of Hawaii to take a blocking position for that nonsense to stop.

By grabbing Midway and Line Islands I rip Michael's air search screen to shreds. He is outstanding in using his PBY and B-17 as Air Search platforms...

What is his counter going to be?

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

The key to whole Hawaiian Operation is landing at numerous points EVERYWHERE to grab the AFs and force the Americans to spread their counter efforts. It is EASY to take serious losses if just one or two bases are taken. I've tried this once before (long time ago) and learned some serious lessons from it. Minefields will also be essential. I ordered all seven of the ML SS to move to Kwajalein without dropping their pre-war mines. Additional mines shall be carried by the old CLs converted into ML. Got to make it immediately dangerous for any American shipping to enter into one of the Japanese bases.

Figure that Japan has Midway and the Line Islands by the 15-17th, spend 2-3 weeks gathering forces and then attack the outlying islands from both sides.

I think that the need to grab a bunch of bases is dependent on how quickly you want to move to actually taking Pearl Harbor. Since you are planning on laying a long siege, you'd be well served in spending more resources in getting sufficient engineers, base units, etc, in the Hawaiian islands. At the same time, I think you need to invest time and effort into suppressing PH with the KB and BBs sometime near the end of January when you start occupying and building up those bases. That way you can pull out the KB at a time when the Allies won't be able to land a counterblow giving you more time to establish those critical bases. Destroying those limited 4E on the ground at PH with BB bombardment is especially important I think. Otherwise things could fall apart when you withdraw the KB.

[Alikchi2]

Solid start. Keep it rolling. Pro moves in Malaya.

What IDs do you have slated for Hawaii?

[John 3rd]

Currently the 2nd and 56th are approaching the Marshalls. I will be buying out the highly experienced 20th ID from Korea within 5-6 days. They form the second echelon of troops. Beyond that we have 4-5 SNLF Assault Brigades and one IJA Inf Reg.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

The key to whole Hawaiian Operation is landing at numerous points EVERYWHERE to grab the AFs and force the Americans to spread their counter efforts. It is EASY to take serious losses if just one or two bases are taken. I've tried this once before (long time ago) and learned some serious lessons from it. Minefields will also be essential. I ordered all seven of the ML SS to move to Kwajalein without dropping their pre-war mines. Additional mines shall be carried by the old CLs converted into ML. Got to make it immediately dangerous for any American shipping to enter into one of the Japanese bases.

Figure that Japan has Midway and the Line Islands by the 15-17th, spend 2-3 weeks gathering forces and then attack the outlying islands from both sides.

I think that the need to grab a bunch of bases is dependent on how quickly you want to move to actually taking Pearl Harbor. Since you are planning on laying a long siege, you'd be well served in spending more resources in getting sufficient engineers, base units, etc, in the Hawaiian islands. At the same time, I think you need to invest time and effort into suppressing PH with the KB and BBs sometime near the end of January when you start occupying and building up those bases. That way you can pull out the KB at a time when the Allies won't be able to land a counterblow giving you more time to establish those critical bases. Destroying those limited 4E on the ground at PH with BB bombardment is especially important I think. Otherwise things could fall apart when you withdraw the KB.

Completely concur. Don't want to make the landings without the engineering support WITH ME at the time. Weighting a little bit is far better then going in immediately and giving the enemy a chance to pick up the pieces and counter before everything arrives.

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't want to use BBs to bombard PH do I? Doesn't the CD units there have 15" guns? Except for a landing, that scares the tar out of me...

[DOCUP]

Your spies are short an inch. But most of you men have heard that before.[:D] 16in guns are the biggest.

This is nuts but I am enjoying this.

[Lowpe]

+1 on grabbing as many bases as you can and getting the airfields operational.

Are you prepping any forces for the bases there or waiting for Michael to spot your forces first?

[John 3rd]

We would face 16" CD Batteries? YIKES! I am NOT SCARED!

DOCUP/Lowpe: YES---this is NUTS!

All I have to do is say BANZAI!!!

Course the Japanese DID seriously examine the possibility of an invasion back in 1942, Right?

NO. No prepping until we storm a shore. There shall be no warning through intelligence (if possible).