Pilot Training Automation Tool (PTAT)

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: JuanG

The five 'categories' presented above are just how the interface displays them, not how the game actually handles them.

My theory remains that it tracks the 'type' from the editor, of which there are 13 different codes;


As JF and EW don't seem to be used, that leaves us with 11 actual 'categories'.

Note that this is also why there's no difference moving from 'light bomber' to 'medium bomber', etc., as they are all part of the 'level bomber' group.

Congratulations, we have "Bingo"! Your theory explains every Pilot Experience loss I've seen, as well as the instances where it didn't occur (even when I thought it would). It really does make perfect sense.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Well I'm still not seeing the behavior you are describing. When I manually select a pilot who was trained in a different type a plane I see the experience drop. But I DO NOT see it when I use the release pilot button. I've tested this multiple times with different plane types and even selecting from a different pilot pool. Something isn't adding up if this isn't what the rest of you are seeing...

Here's exactly what I did in the tests mentioned above. Opened the Kate unit pilot screen, changed the "To Pool" setting to "Reserve", and then clicked the "Release pilot" button (Most Experienced). The 79 Experience pilot immediately moved to the Reserve Pool. Next I clicked on a Betty unit, changed the "From..." setting to "Reserve (##)", and then clicked "Get New Pilot" button. The quantity of pilots ticked up by one, and when I opened the "Pilots" screen, the former Kate pilot was there, with experience now at 76.

This happens EVERY time, and in the test I described in the earlier post, the same occurred with Float to Patrol and Float to Recon.

Ah! I see what you did. You assigned the pilot to the squadron with the "Get New Pilot" button. The script would not use that method of adding pilots; it adds veterans with the "Request Veteran" button then uses the release pilot button in the new view. And if you do it that way, you avoid the pilot experience drop. The fact that adding pilots this way doesn't result in an experience drop but every other way does suggests it's some sort of bug. But since you can't tell what type of plane pilots trained with it's probably for the best.

Well now I know this is a non issue. Thanks!

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Well I'm still not seeing the behavior you are describing. When I manually select a pilot who was trained in a different type a plane I see the experience drop. But I DO NOT see it when I use the release pilot button. I've tested this multiple times with different plane types and even selecting from a different pilot pool. Something isn't adding up if this isn't what the rest of you are seeing...

Here's exactly what I did in the tests mentioned above. Opened the Kate unit pilot screen, changed the "To Pool" setting to "Reserve", and then clicked the "Release pilot" button (Most Experienced). The 79 Experience pilot immediately moved to the Reserve Pool. Next I clicked on a Betty unit, changed the "From..." setting to "Reserve (##)", and then clicked "Get New Pilot" button. The quantity of pilots ticked up by one, and when I opened the "Pilots" screen, the former Kate pilot was there, with experience now at 76.

This happens EVERY time, and in the test I described in the earlier post, the same occurred with Float to Patrol and Float to Recon.

Ah! I see what you did. You assigned the pilot to the squadron with the "Get New Pilot" button. The script would not use that method of adding pilots; it adds veterans with the "Request Veteran" button then uses the release pilot button in the new view. And if you do it that way, you avoid the pilot experience drop. The fact that adding pilots this way doesn't result in an experience drop but every other way does suggests it's some sort of bug. But since you can't tell what type of plane pilots trained with it's probably for the best.

Well now I know this is a non issue. Thanks!

Not so fast. I always use the 'request veteran' button when adding pilots to my frontline air units and I see the experience drops. I suggest you check again.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: rustysi
Not so fast. I always use the 'request veteran' button when adding pilots to my frontline air units and I see the experience drops. I suggest you check again.

I've tried this many many times. If I am wrong I would be very surprised. Show me screenshots of this and I'll be more inclined to believe you.

[GetAssista]

Jents, maybe you are using different betas, and this bug is fixed in the later ones?

I here do not observe any experience loss with whatever cross-transfers if using "Request veteran"->"Release pilot", but I do have xp loss in the same game if I transfer pilots directly by clicking their name. Beta 1.7.11.23x4

[rustysi]

I do have xp loss in the same game if I transfer pilots directly by clicking their name.

And that is how I do it.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Ah! I see what you did. You assigned the pilot to the squadron with the "Get New Pilot" button. The script would not use that method of adding pilots; it adds veterans with the "Request Veteran" button then uses the release pilot button in the new view. And if you do it that way, you avoid the pilot experience drop. The fact that adding pilots this way doesn't result in an experience drop but every other way does suggests it's some sort of bug. But since you can't tell what type of plane pilots trained with it's probably for the best.

Well now I know this is a non issue. Thanks!

More testing (for the record, it's the 1123x10 Beta, but I don't think that matters). There are three ways to get a pilot out of the Reserve Pool, and they provide three completely different outcomes. From worst to best:

1) From the "Request Veteran" screen, click on the pilot's name. Result: Experience Lost AND Chance of Delay (1-to-7 turns)

2) On the unit screen, use "Get New Pilot" button with "From..." set to "Reserve(##)". Result: Experience Lost BUT No Delay (pilot moves immediately into the selecting unit)

3) From the "Request Veteran" screen, click the "Release Pilot" button (presumably the button associated with "Most Experienced"). Result: No Experience Lost AND No Delay (pilot moves immediately into the selecting unit)

This definitely sounds like a bug. Having three different outcomes from basically the same action (moving a pilot from one unit to another) seems unusual, to put it mildly.

[rustysi]

So do you think we should post in tech support for clarification? WAD or no?

[witpqs]

That post did not clarify anything for me because it lacked the critical detail.

When you 'Request Veteran' and you go to the next screen you are allowed to get pilots from the general reserve, from other squadrons' reserves, or from TRACOM. BUT... the important detail is exactly what category (or 'sub-pool' if you wish) is the pilot coming from? If the pilot is a fighter pilot and you pick him for a bomber, then he will lose experience. Period. No mystery, totally in accord with the stated rules.

If the pilot is a fighter pilot and you pick him for a fighter, he will not lose experience. If he does lose experience, that is a bug insofar as how I understand the code is intended to work. But I do not see that happen.

So when you look at the pool how do you know what category (or sub-pool if you like that term better) that a pilot belongs to? Use the filters on that screen. When you want pilots for fighters, filter for fighter pilots, and so on.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

That post did not clarify anything for me because it lacked the critical detail.

When you 'Request Veteran' and you go to the next screen you are allowed to get pilots from the general reserve, from other squadrons' reserves, or from TRACOM. BUT... the important detail is exactly what category (or 'sub-pool' if you wish) is the pilot coming from? If the pilot is a fighter pilot and you pick him for a bomber, then he will lose experience. Period. No mystery, totally in accord with the stated rules.

If the pilot is a fighter pilot and you pick him for a fighter, he will not lose experience. If he does lose experience, that is a bug insofar as how I understand the code is intended to work. But I do not see that happen.

So when you look at the pool how do you know what category (or sub-pool if you like that term better) that a pilot belongs to? Use the filters on that screen. When you want pilots for fighters, filter for fighter pilots, and so on.

That's what I do. I'm not saying its a problem but when I filter pilots for say bomber or patrol when I choose a pilot sometimes they lose experience. There's really no way to tell (at least that I've noticed) but I just figure that I picked a bomber pilot that was trained on a twin engine A/C and stuck him in a single engine job (or vice versa).

With patrol I figure the same, guy trained in a 4 engine Mavis put in a single engine Jake. I haven't had this with fighter pilots as yet, at least not that I've noticed. Although I did get my Nick's recently (twin engine). If I notice it there I'll let you know.

The real thing that gets me is what Kull noticed above. Three different outcomes for essentially the event. Doesn't seem right. Seems to me that they either should or should not lose experience no matter how they're assigned to a unit.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
If the pilot is a fighter pilot and you pick him for a bomber, then he will lose experience. Period. No mystery, totally in accord with the stated rules.

The whole point is that "Request veteran"->"Release pilot" does not lead to experience loss in whatever circumstances, and no delay in most. You can easily try it yourself, releasing some of your fighter pilots into reserve pool and immediately assigning them to some bomber squads.
Kull gave an excellent description of the state of affairs.

Edit: I was using R->R process exclusively in my games against AI because of no delays. Was not aware of the possibility of experience loss and never experienced one. But now that I know about it, it seems that my game is pretty reliant on this bug =) I use floatplanes extensively to train naval pilots for fighters and bombers, and recon planes to train army bomber crews, and all this higher than 50 xp. Like Rufes on CAP, Jakes bombing helpless Chinese etc

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: rustysi
The real thing that gets me is what Kull noticed above. Three different outcomes for essentially the event. Doesn't seem right. Seems to me that they either should or should not lose experience no matter how they're assigned to a unit.

Yes, you are correct. And I had the same thoughts and posted earlier that I too thought it was a bug. Oh well. I suspect that some of the pilot training features were only half implemented but since it was working alright the developers just moved on rather than try to clean up some of the discrepancies. Either way, I don't see them ever changing this part of the game as there is far more important work to be done aside from the pilot sub-game.

[rustysi]

I haven't had this with fighter pilots as yet, at least not that I've noticed. Although I did get my Nick's recently (twin engine). If I notice it there I'll let you know.

Just an FYI and what I fully expected. Put a single engine trained fighter pilot into a twin engine fighter and he'll lose some experience (69 down to 66). It was done manually ('request veteran') with filters on for fighter pilots only.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I haven't had this with fighter pilots as yet, at least not that I've noticed. Although I did get my Nick's recently (twin engine). If I notice it there I'll let you know.

Just an FYI and what I fully expected. Put a single engine trained fighter pilot into a twin engine fighter and he'll lose some experience (69 down to 66). It was done manually ('request veteran') with filters on for fighter pilots only.

This is *probably* what JuanG was talking about earlier. Assuming your fighter pilot was assigned to a single engine fighter such as the Nate and you moved him to a Nick via the Reserve Pool, what really happened is he went from "Fighter" to "Fighter-bomber", and thus the experience loss. Even though the Reserve Pool would indicate that pilots from either unit are in "Fighter reserve", the game knows different.

This sort of thing is EXACTLY why I thought "engine count" mattered, but it really doesn't.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

That post did not clarify anything for me because it lacked the critical detail.

Should have been more explicit. The test is to see what happens when you move pilots BETWEEN CATEGORIES, using the Reserve Pool (not sure if the results are different if you move pilots directly from one unit to another, as that was not tested). So from Fighter to Level Bomber, or Level Bomber to Torpedo Bomber, Patrol to Recon, or any of the categories that JuanG listed in his post.

Do that yourself and you'll see. As GetAssista confirms, method number three allows all sorts of penalty-free possibilities for moving pilots between aircraft classes.