2 novices take on the campaign - a different AAR

[RKhan]

Turn 7 and thedrillsgt is at Novgorod with a stack of panzers. I'm not feeling too good about Leningrad at this point. I figure its time to get behind the Luga and hope for the best.

He has also managed to cut off some more troops, and mechanised ones at that. I'm still wondering about the big push through this terrain and it throws me off. If I'm right, the tactical successes here will not add up to strategic success. However, I really can't afford to lose any more units. I'm headed into the dry season for Soviets reinforcements.

In the center I'm gambling I can stay close enough to slow him down but not so close as to get trapped. I have obviously not got it 100% right yet but I'm looking at the distance to Moscow and thinking I can give up a fair chunk of terrain and still end up well west of the city when the mud sets in - so long as I don't outright run for it. Some early mud would really help.

In the south my biggest mistake. My fine mechanised army waiting in the swamps is cut off by a lone German cavalry just at the top of the screen shot. I forgot all about the extra movement these units have and, just like in the north, I did not count on a big push here. Does he really think his panzers will cross 2-3 major rivers and the swamp hexes this side of Christmas? Well so far I'm the fool on this one. I'm just lucky I only stand to lose half of that army.

I decided to stick close to the Pripyat for another turn to see if I can save anyone from the swamp pocket, but it's a risk in itself and I'm not comfortable with my situation right now.

Where now the optimism of last turn!

[RKhan]

North

[RKhan]

Center

[RKhan]

South - top

[RKhan]

South - bottom

[RKhan]

Vehicles: 152k (102k)
Factories: none lost

[RKhan]

Things have stabilised in the north as the panzers stay close to Novgorod. He probably needs to bring up the infantry and fill the petrol tank. I note with dismay how he is poised north and south of lake Ilmen. Perhaps he means to pocket the lake!

I'm amazed I found enough units to get 3 deep. Stalin must have emptied the prisons and the schools. I'm sure this will show in the quality of my troops. Still, I can't imagine thedrillsgt fancies pushing his panzers through all that marsh. I figure he is going due east.

Hurray for the plucky partisans btw!

In the center I'm almost trapped by his push off the Dnepr. Luckily I will be able to walk everyone out.

At this point I don't think there is much chance of keeping Smolensk without taking a big risk, so I decide to give it up and move everyone back quite a bit - about 3 hexes east of the city. The reserve front has my best troops and they echelon south to give western front a break.

My brave attempt to recover my mistake in the Pripyat has come to naught! At least I was not caught in a pincer coming down from the north as expected. I think it is time to fall back on the Snov and abandon the Dnepr from Kiev to the Vorskla river.

Ukraine is about empty of any factories so I have to worry now about whether he will push on Kharkov or the twin cities. I think Kharkov first and plan accordingly. Supply due east of the lower Dnepr still must be untenable for him as I held on so long in central Ukraine.

Odessa did not put up much of a fight. I'm not bothered that it fell, but I am bothered that I don't have a handle on mounting a proper defence. Come to think of it, I have walked out of Kiev and Smolensk at this point rather than defend. Something doesn't feel right about that. Luckily Stalin can't actually shoot me as he did the Soviet generals who gave up ground like this.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: Hermann


Rule 5 clear Leningrad and Kharkov immediately in that order. then Moscow and the Donitz basin.

I'm afraid I disagree totally with this.

!st rule - Factories with 3 or fewer HI and arms can be sacrificed as they don't get the multiplier bonus in '42 (unless the rules have changed since I last looked. size 4 factories should be saved where possible.

2nd rule It best to rail them all in 1 go if you can. Railing half then the rest later gives the first ones more damage

3rd: If pressed, it's OK just to rail a single AFV or a/c factory. They regrow and you still end up with excess numbers. Under current rules there are going to be many higher priorities than singles.

4th The cities with lots of factories to clear should be cleared in order of the turn they are likely to be locked down. That is very different from Hermann's list. D town is number 1 as it can be locked down on T4. I always rail all its arms factories on T3. Leningrad and Kharkov most unlikely to be locked before T10, the Donets cities later still, and Moscow hopefully never. Follow a different order of evacuation from the order you expect to lose the chance to evacuate and you will lose many more factories than you need. If a city is not going to be captured, leave its factories well alone. It's a waste of valuable rail capacity and even more valuable production.

[RKhan]

1. I wish Soviets could reasonably attack in the early game, at least sometimes. Perhaps its my inexperience. Getting beat up all the time doesn't suit my personality.
2. The rules are complex and kudos to those of you who understand the detail. I sometimes read the AARs to glean some tips, but it seems things change quite a bit from patch to patch so what I read is often out of date. I find I enjoy it more if I don't worry about it - an approach that would get me trounced by one of the veterans here.
3. On the upside, the emotional journey feels like fighting a war. Well done designers!
4. I have no idea if I'm doing well or poorly. It seems little things, like lost vehicles, are more important than the tens of thousands of troops I've lost.
5. Finally, I can't believe I've signed up to a game which is likely to take 6 months to finish. thedrillsgt may win simply by outlasting me.

[RKhan]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

ORIGINAL: Hermann


Rule 5 clear Leningrad and Kharkov immediately in that order. then Moscow and the Donitz basin.

I'm afraid I disagree totally with this.

!st rule - Factories with 3 or fewer HI and arms can be sacrificed as they don't get the multiplier bonus in '42 (unless the rules have changed since I last looked. size 4 factories should be saved where possible.

2nd rule It best to rail them all in 1 go if you can. Railing half then the rest later gives the first ones more damage

3rd: If pressed, it's OK just to rail a single AFV or a/c factory. They regrow and you still end up with excess numbers. Under current rules there are going to be many higher priorities than singles.

4th The cities with lots of factories to clear should be cleared in order of the turn they are likely to be locked down. That is very different from Hermann's list. D town is number 1 as it can be locked down on T4. I always rail all its arms factories on T3. Leningrad and Kharkov most unlikely to be locked before T10, the Donets cities later still, and Moscow hopefully never. Follow a different order of evacuation from the order you expect to lose the chance to evacuate and you will lose many more factories than you need. If a city is not going to be captured, leave its factories well alone. It's a waste of valuable rail capacity and even more valuable production.

Thank you for the insight sillyflower. I have been lucky enough to rail out everything to so far. We are on T11 and only 4A and 4HI lost. I followed most of your advice intuitively. I hated moving the Kharkov T34 plant - I desperately wanted the tanks in my units. I can't imagine how long it will take to fill out the plethora of tank brigades coming my way soon.

[chaos45]

The russians can attack in the early game you just have to pick your battles and be very careful to make sure your attacking units are either in a safe location from encirclement or have enough MP to retreat to a safe location after the attack.

Key things for early game Soviet attacks--ensure the army HQ attacking hopefully hasnt moved that turn. Also if your front HQ is close it helps as well winth 5 hexes for both. Also make sure your army HQ has a decent amount of trained/equipped support units and a good commander 6+ skill.

Next for the couple attacks you might be able to do each turn use as much if not all the soviet airforce in range to bomb unit on the target hex. Really helps to soften them up even if it doesnt appear to kill alot of Axis troops.

Next attack with as many men as possible overkill the odds in the early assaults if at all possible. As you can also get a hidden built in odds shift just from outnumbering the guys your attacking by alot.

Other key factors are make sure to attack with trained and rested troops whenever possible. Esp for soviets fatigue can make you take a big hit on final CV since you dont have enough experience to negate the fatigue levels like the Germans do. So move as little as possible before an attack. Also if attacking with units from several armies make sure they are all at least in the same front to limit command penalties.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

ORIGINAL: Hermann


Rule 5 clear Leningrad and Kharkov immediately in that order. then Moscow and the Donitz basin.

I'm afraid I disagree totally with this.

!st rule - Factories with 3 or fewer HI and arms can be sacrificed as they don't get the multiplier bonus in '42 (unless the rules have changed since I last looked. size 4 factories should be saved where possible.

..

4th The cities with lots of factories to clear should be cleared in order of the turn they are likely to be locked down. That is very different from Hermann's list. D town is number 1 as it can be locked down on T4. I always rail all its arms factories on T3. Leningrad and Kharkov most unlikely to be locked before T10, the Donets cities later still, and Moscow hopefully never. Follow a different order of evacuation from the order you expect to lose the chance to evacuate and you will lose many more factories than you need. If a city is not going to be captured, leave its factories well alone. It's a waste of valuable rail capacity and even more valuable production.

always cautious about disagreeing as its usually something I have misunderstood, but somewhere in the .08 patches your 1st rule was changed? There is no rounding now on later expansion so a 1 size factory expands as fast as 4 size factory (and retains the growth). Agree that larger factory blocks repair faster so I wouldn't emphasise moving them 1 by 1 - just that the secondary problem of doing this has been removed

agree about order but there are a few special cases - though this is circumstantial. There is an advantage to geting some factories moved before they expand, in particular the Il-2 ones at Voronezh. Move them before T5 and they are cheap to move and you don't waste as much expansion as later.

ORIGINAL: RKhan

Thank you for the insight sillyflower. I have been lucky enough to rail out everything to so far. We are on T11 and only 4A and 4HI lost. I followed most of your advice intuitively. I hated moving the Kharkov T34 plant - I desperately wanted the tanks in my units. I can't imagine how long it will take to fill out the plethora of tank brigades coming my way soon.

oddly for 1941 and most of 1942 tank production is not your biggest problem. Its hard to use what is in your pools even you go on a tank battalion SU creation campaign (a good idea I believe - but be prepared to scrap them from 1944 onwards). Your tanks as such are not that important till your tank corps start to gain experience and the better ToEs of later 1942.

Its then you need every tank you can produce as your losses will be horrific (if you use them agressively) and you need every bit of capacity. Gets worse in 1944 as the T34/85 is produced in lower numbers and faces higher losses.

But for now to the summer of 1942, you'll be ok. Just, as I assume you have done, move out all the factory - or you will find that production becomes a real constraint by 1943.

[RKhan]

Thank you to everyone for the factory advice.

Does it matter where I move the factory to, other than as far east as possible? I'm just spreading them around for now. It seems there ought to be a connection between population and the number of factories that can be supported.

[RKhan]

Turn 9 was very quiet. Mud in the north, but just outside of the German advance so I don't think it impacted him too much. I think he was catching up with my theater wide retreat last turn.

I decided not to spam a bunch of screen shots unless anyone has a particular interest.

My troop level is up to 4.5m and loses at 1.6m. No factories lost.

RKhan

[charlie0311]

Hi, population for factories doesn't matter. Design flaw I guess.

I fill up the larger cities.

HI, 180 to 200 is plenty. Arm, same ratio, 270 to 300. More better fewer worse.

If you click on the city with the factory, under repair, you should see the turn that production resumes.

You can go to the production icon, on map, that will give a list of all types of production. Just click on one and you go back to the map, then click on the city name, upper right.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Hi, population for factories doesn't matter. Design flaw I guess.

...

I *think* it sets a limit to what can be based there, try sending everything to one city in the Urals and you'll see it stops being available for more transfers. Not at all sure if it then affects the capacity to make the best use of expansions etc

[RKhan]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

Hi, population for factories doesn't matter. Design flaw I guess.

I fill up the larger cities.

HI, 180 to 200 is plenty. Arm, same ratio, 270 to 300. More better fewer worse.

If you click on the city with the factory, under repair, you should see the turn that production resumes.

You can go to the production icon, on map, that will give a list of all types of production. Just click on one and you go back to the map, then click on the city name, upper right.

How much of each do the Soviets start with? I found a spreadsheet here that only listed 190 HI.

[charlie0311]

Checked my save files, as of sov t2, earliest I have, sov HI is 232.

You could start a solo game as sov and check the production icon.

[loki100]

You start with 236 HI, 370 AP and 140 trucks (from a T1 with no German moves)

Here's my list of the 'at-risk' factories for 1941 (ie it excludes the Volga and Urals)

[RKhan]

North