Combat Values

Missouri_Rebel · Post by **Missouri_Rebel** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:38 pm

Irrelevant

MikeMarchant_ssl · Post by **MikeMarchant_ssl** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:00 pm

Having the numbers available for those who are interested in them, in no way forces those who aren't interested in looking at them to do so.

Both sides of the argument can be equally happy if the data is published.

Best Wishes

Mike

Moltke71 · Post by **Moltke71** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:12 pm

This discussion confirms my long-time suspicion that two types of people play wargames:

1. gamers

2. combat accountants.

Missouri_Rebel · Post by **Missouri_Rebel** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:21 pm

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

This discussion confirms my long-time suspicion that two types of people play wargames:

1. gamers

2. combat accountants.

You forgot

3.Accountable Combative Gamers

Angiel · Post by **Angiel** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:23 pm

ORIGINAL: MikeMarchant_ssl

Having the numbers available for those who are interested in them, in no way forces those who aren't interested in looking at them to do so.

Both sides of the argument can be equally happy if the data is published.

I think it's the best thing.

Moltke71 · Post by **Moltke71** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:27 pm

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

This discussion confirms my long-time suspicion that two types of people play wargames:

1. gamers

2. combat accountants.

You forgot

3.Accountable Combative Gamers

Nah, #3 is just CYA for #2.

Missouri_Rebel · Post by **Missouri_Rebel** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:47 pm

I don't own the game yet. Went to purchase last night but had a problem doing so. Support ticket sent.

In the meantime I read more than a few post that have raised concerns that this might not be a game for me. For me, my biggest hurdle is not the under the hood calculations, even though I posted an extensive thread early on that raised many points others have since release. The developer chose to go another route and I am forced to accept that. It's his game after all. I can live without knowing the correct firepower during the game and % chance of hits, rally etc.

What is now keeping me on the fence, which you may deem as combat accountant, I consider relevant information that needs to be conveyed. i.e How far a unit can move in a turn, how many movement points a unit has left, and the range it can fire {which gunner doesnt know his weapons range?)

I may have been able to overcome the overly heavy clicking and the lack of polish on combat results and a more thorough use of it, but the lack of information on unit characteristics in game is causing my biggest concern. Maybe that info is in the manual? IMO, it should be known in game.

Moltke71 · Post by **Moltke71** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:58 pm

Rebel,

Seriously, as one Missourian to another, I tend to share your concerns. I'm reviewing TotH so you may want to wait for my piece.

Gerry4321 · Post by **Gerry4321** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:00 pm

Agree with this.

I don't really need them as I have ASL but what about those that don't? It's OK to talk about playing for historical feel but many of those people have played ASL already and know the vehicles, etc. already

ORIGINAL: MikeMarchant_ssl

Having the numbers available for those who are interested in them, in no way forces those who aren't interested in looking at them to do so.

Both sides of the argument can be equally happy if the data is published.

Best Wishes

Mike

Missouri_Rebel · Post by **Missouri_Rebel** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:04 pm

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Rebel,

Seriously, as one Missourian to another, I tend to share your concerns. I'm reviewing TotH so you may want to wait for my piece.

Show me [:)]

Edit: Added the smile to a somewhat inside joke, otherwise sounds kind of dickish

mainsworthy · Post by **mainsworthy** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:04 pm

the couple of charts needed are in the vassalengine website vassal module

Franciscus · Post by **Franciscus** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:33 pm

Hi

I have never played SL or ASL, and am not a tactical wargamer. The buzz about this game nevertheless made me interested in exploring it, considering perhaps a future buy, but I am perplexed...

Do you guys mean that the available/remaining movement points of a unit are not shown anywhere ? There are no movement range indications/filter on-map ?

Regards

mainsworthy · Post by **mainsworthy** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:38 pm

if you install the JMass VASL Mod from the mods and scenarios section, the Tank counters have Move points on the chit, and in ASL its well know infantry move a 4hexes double time 6hexes + one hex if on a road, leaders adds 2 to the 4

Franciscus · Post by **Franciscus** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:49 pm

So, with VASL mod installed the units counters display their MP ? In a dynamic way, or just their base value, even if spent ?

Thanks

mainsworthy · Post by **mainsworthy** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:51 pm

static values, you generaly move one in one go, so you wont come back to it same turn

Franciscus · Post by **Franciscus** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:56 pm

Thanks for your answers. Still on the fence, though...

Missouri_Rebel · Post by **Missouri_Rebel** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:02 pm

ORIGINAL: Franciscus

Thanks for your answers. Still on the fence, though...

go here now for actual play.

twitch.tv/idjester

Im going to catch a bit

iPhoneAppz · Post by **iPhoneAppz** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:09 pm

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

I don't own the game yet. Went to purchase last night but had a problem doing so. Support ticket sent.

In the meantime I read more than a few post that have raised concerns that this might not be a game for me. For me, my biggest hurdle is not the under the hood calculations, even though I posted an extensive thread early on that raised many points others have since release. The developer chose to go another route and I am forced to accept that. It's his game after all. I can live without knowing the correct firepower during the game and % chance of hits, rally etc.

What is now keeping me on the fence, which you may deem as combat accountant, I consider relevant information that needs to be conveyed. i.e How far a unit can move in a turn, how many movement points a unit has left, and the range it can fire {which gunner doesnt know his weapons range?)

I may have been able to overcome the overly heavy clicking and the lack of polish on combat results and a more thorough use of it, but the lack of information on unit characteristics in game is causing my biggest concern. Maybe that info is in the manual? IMO, it should be known in game.

This.

It's not about being a combat accountant. It's about simulation. Wouldn't a leader know if his squad can make it over to that 'building over there' or not? Wouldn't he know that a wheat field provides cover? Wouldn't a tank commander know how far he can make it up a road in 2 minutes?

That's all I want.

Richie61 · Post by **Richie61** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:31 pm

ORIGINAL: iPhoneAppz
It's not about being a combat accountant. It's about simulation. Wouldn't a leader know if his squad can make it over to that 'building over there' or not? Wouldn't he know that a wheat field provides cover? Wouldn't a tank commander know how far he can make it up a road in 2 minutes?

That's all I want.

Course he would. But after he read the manuals of war, he would need to be "battle born" and learn from the experience of playing war [:)]

MikeMarchant_ssl · Post by **MikeMarchant_ssl** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:44 pm

Generally military forces will learn all this stuff on the training ground long before they see a battle.

Best Wishes

Mike

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