ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR)

[AllenK]

5 moves. Makes sense although it's an AT gun moving into East Poland.

[AllenK]

Just to clarify, did you want to invade two coastal hexes in Bulgaria? Varna port and the hes SW?

[Mayhemizer_slith]

If Bulgaria has 2 ports, then both ports.

If Bulgaria has only 1 port, then port and some other hex.

[AllenK]

The other port can't be invaded.

[Mayhemizer_slith]

OK, I forgot that.

[Jagdtiger14]

Here is an option to consider. Once you have Bulgaria...taking the USSR Balkan invasion gambit to its ultimate dream conclusion is this (which I have never done or debated...Centuur might be better able to comment on its possiblities):

Do not request Bessarabia yet (so Axis can not align Hungary). Build up Soviet forces in Bulgaria (1 HQ, no MECH or ARM) to the point you can take Yugoslavia. Remember to keep enough force in Bulgaria and east of Bessarabia in case the Germans align Romania. Bessarabia border is a good place for the MECH/ARM. This build up occurs N/D'39, J/F'40 with the possible attack vs Yugo happening the first fair weather impulse in M/A'40. Once you have Yugo, you now aim for Hungary. Then you demand Bessarabia.

Now this is all utopian of course because the Axis will respond, but the question is how? In this game, the Germans decided on Fall Weiss. This means they could have Paris no sooner than near the end of J/A'40. It's very possible this could take longer of course (my fear and why I'm a true believer in Fall Gelb) which would play well into Soviet hands in this gambit.

So how might the Axis respond (happening while Germany is building up/fighting France/CW/low countries)?
1. As soon as a build up of Soviet forces begins, the Axis DOW Yugo to prevent this gambit going any further (this is what I would expect)...but this could cause Axis losses in Winter, units taken from Germany's western front.
2. Axis allow Soviet DOW on Yugo and send in peace keepers making it more difficult, but taking units away from the western front and losing those units.
3. Perhaps Centuur has other possibilities?

The important thing to remember is to not be caught with your Soviet pants down with units deep in the Balkans while the Germans finish off the French. This would make Barbarossa very easy and cost the Soviets dearly.

No matter what you decide to do, leave white print cheap units to garrison what you have taken after you leave.

If you decide on only Bulgaria, keep some quality units there before you demand Bessarabia...in all likelihood Romania will give up, but if not, you have a two front war vs them.

Centuur?

[Mayhemizer_slith]

Can USSR align Yugoslavia if they have 4 corps in Bulgaria?

[Jagdtiger14]

On the Allied side, only CW and France can align Yugo (any adjacent countries).

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Here is an option to consider. Once you have Bulgaria...taking the USSR Balkan invasion gambit to its ultimate dream conclusion is this (which I have never done or debated...Centuur might be better able to comment on its possiblities):

Do not request Bessarabia yet (so Axis can not align Hungary). Build up Soviet forces in Bulgaria (1 HQ, no MECH or ARM) to the point you can take Yugoslavia. Remember to keep enough force in Bulgaria and east of Bessarabia in case the Germans align Romania. Bessarabia border is a good place for the MECH/ARM. This build up occurs N/D'39, J/F'40 with the possible attack vs Yugo happening the first fair weather impulse in M/A'40. Once you have Yugo, you now aim for Hungary. Then you demand Bessarabia.

Now this is all utopian of course because the Axis will respond, but the question is how? In this game, the Germans decided on Fall Weiss. This means they could have Paris no sooner than near the end of J/A'40. It's very possible this could take longer of course (my fear and why I'm a true believer in Fall Gelb) which would play well into Soviet hands in this gambit.

So how might the Axis respond (happening while Germany is building up/fighting France/CW/low countries)?
1. As soon as a build up of Soviet forces begins, the Axis DOW Yugo to prevent this gambit going any further (this is what I would expect)...but this could cause Axis losses in Winter, units taken from Germany's western front.
2. Axis allow Soviet DOW on Yugo and send in peace keepers making it more difficult, but taking units away from the western front and losing those units.
3. Perhaps Centuur has other possibilities?

The important thing to remember is to not be caught with your Soviet pants down with units deep in the Balkans while the Germans finish off the French. This would make Barbarossa very easy and cost the Soviets dearly.

No matter what you decide to do, leave white print cheap units to garrison what you have taken after you leave.

If you decide on only Bulgaria, keep some quality units there before you demand Bessarabia...in all likelihood Romania will give up, but if not, you have a two front war vs them.

Centuur?

I don't have the rulebook available now, but I believe that Germany can break the pact the moment a Soviet unit enters Yugoslavia. And that's something the USSR doesn't want, I believe.

[Jagdtiger14]

I don't have the rulebook available now, but I believe that Germany can break the pact the moment a Soviet unit enters Yugoslavia. And that's something the USSR doesn't want, I believe.

19.5.3 Breaking the Nazi-Soviet Pact: If a Soviet controlled unit enters any hex in Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, or Yugoslavia, then the German player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Axis declaration of war step.

Maybe that's why I never went further with it?[8|] Perhaps the Soviets can send in peace-keepers if/when Germany DOW's Yugo?

[Jagdtiger14]

Centuur: Interesting point you have about USSR building a MAR div concerning Finnish borderlands. I've never seen that. Not totally sold on it though...3 BP's is a lot for USSR almost always, especially 3 1939 BP's. Proper commitment by USSR will avoid the need for that anyway.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I don't have the rulebook available now, but I believe that Germany can break the pact the moment a Soviet unit enters Yugoslavia. And that's something the USSR doesn't want, I believe.

19.5.3 Breaking the Nazi-Soviet Pact: If a Soviet controlled unit enters any hex in Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, or Yugoslavia, then the German player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Axis declaration of war step.

Maybe that's why I never went further with it?[8|] Perhaps the Soviets can send in peace-keepers if/when Germany DOW's Yugo?

Sure they can, if they want Germany to break the pact... It's simply not an option. The Soviet Union can only conquer Bulgaria (and if the Bulgarian army gets setup in Sofia, that's not simply done).

[Jagdtiger14]

19.5.3 Breaking the Nazi-Soviet Pact: If a Soviet controlled unit enters any hex in Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, or Yugoslavia, then the German player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Axis declaration of war step. Maybe that's why I never went further with it? Perhaps the Soviets can send in peace-keepers if/when Germany DOW's Yugo? Sure they can, if they want Germany to break the pact... It's simply not an option. The Soviet Union can only conquer Bulgaria (and if the Bulgarian army gets setup in Sofia, that's not simply done).



_____________________________ Peter

Wow! So far my dumbest question of 2017...its all down hill from here...[&:]

[Mayhemizer_slith]

I will wait and see what Germany is going to do. If they have slow start (meaning CW and France are doing well next summer) and Germany goes to Spain, USSR might as well attack Yugoslavia. If they break the pact, USSR DoW on Germany and starts bombing German factories. In my Game all possible German units are in Spain, they don't have enough units to start war with USSR.

[Centuur]

That's indeed a possible strategy and quite a good one too. However, don't advertise your intensions, because Germany might elect to do a Barbarossa and not go into Spain. If that happens with a large Soviet army in Bulgaria, the USSR is in a very bad position.

[Jagdtiger14]

Since the turn could end after this impulse...make sure you cut the rail line coming through to Turkey, and then there is the Bulgarian resource as well.

[Mayhemizer_slith]

Yes, those are my objectives. I bring more units and attack when I have enough units for that.

[Mayhemizer_slith]

Can I start reverse game impulse? What will CW, USA and China do?

If we think that Egypt is quite safe, should CW take Wavell to France (TRS can go to CSV and go to any port later)?

[Jagdtiger14]

I always take both CW HQ's to France. Egypt can be made safe without Wavell.

[Centuur]

Is Egypt really save? If so, Wavell should go to France. However, if Balbo is sitting on the border, keep Wavell in Egypt unless you've got some good INF or MIL in the country.

And pay attention on the Italians. Make sure Wavell arrives in Marseilles on the TRS (or use a combined action to land him in France in the same impulse you move him out of Egypt).

Wavell on a TRS in the Western Med is asking for the Italians to DoW the CW and use the surprise impulse to try to find the loaded TRS...