Not so good IJ combat ships (for severall reasons revealed in post)

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

To me it all about air power. I don't want any type of surface combat!

This should be your motto as Japan.

In my current game, I had a series of engagements around Palembang where a IJN crack CA force was facing off against Allied DDs.

Nearly all of the engagements were Japanese wins or at best draws, but the Allies could afford to throw DD after DD against the CA's, and eventually attrition and accumulated damage forced them off.

It's a good illustration that the only way to win the surface combat game as Japan is not to play. As Japan you don't want to fight Allied surface ships with your own, you want to get the juicy amphib ships loaded with troops...

How do you protect bases against bombardements ? I found you need to get a good surface fleet there, it seems mines and coast arty does not work. And subs,mini subs mostly not. Perhaps masses of PTs (but Japan has none only late gets some). I already read the thread about it, also it suggest night search/attack, but the bombardement TFs rush in and out. Only if they are slowed down you might get a shot from the air (eg. if they are damaged, but this damage will mostly be delivered by own SF fleets protecting the base, only with much luck you might get a torp or mine hit)..

Simply, you can't. As the war progresses the Allied naval assets will be able to operate with greater degrees of freedom.

Air power helps - occasionally you'll get lucky with a long-range strike as bombarding ships enter/leave the strike area. Night attacks and PT's can work too, depending on the moonlight. IJN subs are always finicky at best after 1942, midgets even more so.

The best way to avoid bombardment is to build up bases where geography makes bombardment difficult. Inland bases are the best at this, for obvious reasons, but take the time to study the map. A few extra hexes of sailing around a headland or peninsula can mean some dead bombarding ships...

[Alpha77]

" something is wrong with our damn torpedoes " ! We fired a lot of them and (I noted most cruisers and DD have empty torpedo magazines) but only a single one hit and exploded...

I have pics of the Yamato battles and more info what went wrong for unknown reasons and complete combat reports in my AAR if someone is interested. Link: tm.asp?m=4175198



But ok here I copy it too:



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TF 198 encounters mine field at Kirakira (116,140)

Japanese Ships
SS RO-63, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage



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Submarine attack near Kirakira at 116,140

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-20, hits 9, and is sunk

Allied Ships
BB Idaho
CA Cornwall
CA San Francisco
CA Astoria
CL St. Louis
CL Dauntless
CL Hobart
DD Lang
DD O'Brien
DD Le Triomphant
DD Isaac Sweers
DD Selfridge
DD Flusser

SSX Ha-20 is sighted by escort
DD Le Triomphant fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Isaac Sweers attacking submerged sub ....
DD Isaac Sweers cannot establish contact with SSX Ha-20
DD Isaac Sweers loses contact with SSX Ha-20
DD Isaac Sweers loses contact with SSX Ha-20
DD Selfridge fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Flusser fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Isaac Sweers attacking submerged sub ....
DD Isaac Sweers loses contact with SSX Ha-20
DD Isaac Sweers loses contact with SSX Ha-20
DD Flusser attacking submerged sub ....
SSX Ha-20 forced to surface!
DD Flusser firing on surfaced sub ....
DD Le Triomphant firing on surfaced sub ....
Massive explosion on SSX Ha-20
Sub slips beneath the waves


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 257 encounters mine field at Kirakira (116,140)

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-25, Mine hits 2, heavy damage



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Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 8,000 Yards (why did the slower TF arrive first?)

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Shell hits 37, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 4, on fire
CL Kuma
CL Kiso, Shell hits 2
CL Oi
DD Nowaki
DD Hibiki, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Fumizuki
DD Oite
DD Hayate, Shell hits 4, heavy fires

Allied Ships
BB Idaho, Shell hits 38, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA Pensacola, Shell hits 1
CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 2
CA Astoria, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 8, heavy fires
CA Australia, Shell hits 1
CA Cornwall
CL Leander
CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 1
CL Tromp, Shell hits 1
CL Hobart, Shell hits 2
CL Dauntless, Shell hits 4, on fire
CL St. Louis, Shell hits 1
DD O'Brien, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Henley
DD Jarvis
DD McCall, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Benham
DD Lang
DD Stack, Shell hits 4, heavy fires
DD Wilson, Shell hits 1
DD Flusser, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Selfridge
DD Isaac Sweers, Shell hits 4
DD Le Triomphant


Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 67% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 8,000 yards
Kingman, F.V. crosses the 'T'
BB Yamato engages BB Idaho at 8,000 yards
CA Kinugasa engages BB Idaho at 8,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 8,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Astoria at 8,000 yards
BB Idaho engages DD Hayate at 8,000 yards
BB Idaho engages DD Oite at 8,000 yards
DD Fumizuki engages BB Idaho at 8,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Hobart at 8,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Tromp at 8,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL De Ruyter at 8,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Isaac Sweers at 8,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Wilson at 8,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Hayate at 8,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD O'Brien at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages BB Idaho at 4,000 yards
CA Kinugasa engages CA Cornwall at 4,000 yards
CL Oi engages BB Idaho at 4,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Kiso at 4,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Kuma at 4,000 yards
CA Salt Lake City engages DD Hayate at 4,000 yards
DD Wilson engages DD Oite at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL St. Louis at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Dauntless at 4,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Stack at 4,000 yards
BB Idaho engages BB Yamato at 4,000 yards
CA Kinugasa engages BB Idaho at 4,000 yards
BB Idaho engages CL Oi at 4,000 yards
CL Kiso engages BB Idaho at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Astoria at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Salt Lake City at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 4,000 yards
CL St. Louis engages DD Fumizuki at 4,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD O'Brien at 4,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Nowaki at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Tromp at 4,000 yards
DD Benham engages DD Fumizuki at 4,000 yards
DD McCall engages DD Oite at 4,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD O'Brien at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
BB Idaho sunk by BB Yamato at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 2,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Oite at 2,000 yards
DD Fumizuki engages DD Isaac Sweers at 2,000 yards
CL Dauntless engages BB Yamato at 2,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Hobart at 2,000 yards
CL Oi engages CL De Ruyter at 2,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Isaac Sweers at 2,000 yards
DD Lang engages DD Hibiki at 2,000 yards
DD Benham engages DD Oite at 2,000 yards
DD Hayate engages DD McCall at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 3,000 yards
CA Kinugasa engages CA Australia at 3,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CL Oi at 3,000 yards
CL Kiso engages CA San Francisco at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Salt Lake City at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL St. Louis at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Dauntless at 3,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Hibiki at 3,000 yards
CL Tromp engages BB Yamato at 3,000 yards
DD Le Triomphant engages DD Oite at 3,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Flusser at 3,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Hayate at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 4,000 yards
CA Kinugasa engages CA San Francisco at 4,000 yards
CL Oi engages CA San Francisco at 4,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CL Kiso at 4,000 yards
CL Kuma engages CA Salt Lake City at 4,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Le Triomphant at 4,000 yards
DD Fumizuki engages DD O'Brien at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Hobart at 4,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Nowaki at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Leander at 4,000 yards
DD Le Triomphant engages DD Nowaki at 4,000 yards
DD Hayate engages DD Isaac Sweers at 4,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Stack at 4,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Fumizuki at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 3,000 yards
CL Oi engages CA San Francisco at 3,000 yards
CL Kiso engages CA San Francisco at 3,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CL Kuma at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL St. Louis at 3,000 yards
DD Fumizuki engages DD Jarvis at 3,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD McCall at 3,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages CL Tromp at 3,000 yards
DD Hayate engages DD Wilson at 3,000 yards
DD Hayate engages DD Henley at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 6,000 yards
CA Kinugasa engages CA Australia at 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 6,000 yards
CL Kuma engages CA San Francisco at 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 6,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Benham at 6,000 yards
DD Fumizuki engages DD McCall at 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Hobart at 6,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Stack at 6,000 yards
DD Hayate engages DD Le Triomphant at 6,000 yards
DD Selfridge engages DD Hayate at 6,000 yards
DD Fumizuki engages DD Flusser at 6,000 yards
DD Benham engages DD Hayate at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CA Australia engages BB Yamato at 9,000 yards
CL Oi engages CA Pensacola at 9,000 yards
CL Kiso engages CA San Francisco at 9,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Salt Lake City at 9,000 yards
CA Pensacola engages DD Hayate at 9,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Flusser at 9,000 yards
DD McCall engages DD Fumizuki at 9,000 yards
CL Hobart engages DD Hibiki at 9,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD McCall at 9,000 yards
CL Kuma engages CL De Ruyter at 9,000 yards
DD Nowaki engages DD Le Triomphant at 9,000 yards
DD Flusser engages DD Hayate at 9,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Wilson at 9,000 yards
DD Lang engages DD Hibiki at 9,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Jarvis at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 12,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CA Kinugasa at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 12,000 yards
CL Kuma engages CA San Francisco at 12,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Hayate at 12,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Stack at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Hobart at 12,000 yards
DD O'Brien engages DD Nowaki at 12,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Nowaki at 12,000 yards
DD Fumizuki engages DD Benham at 12,000 yards
DD Hayate engages DD Jarvis at 12,000 yards
DD Henley engages DD Oite at 12,000 yards
Task forces break off...


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Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 6, on fire
CL Yubari
DD Mochizuki, Shell hits 1
DD Tachikaze
DD Fuyo
DD Yugao

Allied Ships
CA Pensacola
CA Salt Lake City
CA Astoria, heavy fires
CA San Francisco, Shell hits 1, heavy fires
CA Australia
CA Cornwall
CL Leander
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp, on fire
CL Hobart
CL Dauntless, on fire
CL St. Louis, on fire
DD O'Brien, on fire
DD Henley
DD Jarvis
DD McCall, heavy fires
DD Benham
DD Lang
DD Stack, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Wilson, on fire
DD Flusser, heavy fires
DD Selfridge
DD Isaac Sweers, on fire
DD Le Triomphant


Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 67% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 22,000 yards...
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 12,000 yards (LOL)
CA Cornwall fires at CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
CA San Francisco fires at CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
CA San Francisco fires at CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
CA Astoria fires at CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
CL Dauntless fires at CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
CL Leander fires at CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
DD Flusser fires at DD Mochizuki at 12,000 yards
DD Henley fires at DD Mochizuki at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CL Yubari at 11,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CA San Francisco at 11,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Stack at 11,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Jarvis at 11,000 yards
CA Cornwall engages CL Jintsu at 11,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CL Jintsu at 11,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages DD Yugao at 11,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Fuyo at 11,000 yards
DD Fuyo engages DD Benham at 11,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD McCall at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CA Cornwall at 10,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CA San Francisco at 10,000 yards
DD Flusser engages DD Fuyo at 10,000 yards
CA Salt Lake City engages CL Jintsu at 10,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Henley at 10,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CL St. Louis at 10,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Le Triomphant at 10,000 yards
DD Fuyo engages DD McCall at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
CL Yubari engages CA San Francisco at 8,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CA Australia at 8,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CL Jintsu at 8,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CA Astoria at 8,000 yards
CA Salt Lake City engages CL Jintsu at 8,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Mochizuki at 8,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CL St. Louis at 8,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CL Leander at 8,000 yards
DD Selfridge engages DD Mochizuki at 8,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Stack at 8,000 yards
DD Henley engages DD Mochizuki at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CL Yubari engages CA Cornwall at 11,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CA Australia at 11,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages DD Yugao at 11,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Fuyo at 11,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CA Salt Lake City at 11,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Mochizuki at 11,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CL Leander at 11,000 yards
Kozai, Torazo orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 12,000 yards
CL Yubari engages CA San Francisco at 12,000 yards
CA Australia engages CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
DD Yugao engages DD Stack at 12,000 yards
CA Astoria engages CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
DD Stack engages DD Tachikaze at 12,000 yards
DD McCall engages DD Mochizuki at 12,000 yards
CL Leander engages CL Jintsu at 12,000 yards
DD Fuyo engages DD Jarvis at 12,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CA Cornwall at 13,000 yards
CA San Francisco engages CL Jintsu at 13,000 yards
DD McCall engages DD Yugao at 13,000 yards
CA Salt Lake City engages DD Tachikaze at 13,000 yards
DD Mochizuki engages DD Stack at 13,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages CL St. Louis at 13,000 yards
CL Hobart engages CL Jintsu at 13,000 yards
DD Henley engages DD Mochizuki at 13,000 yards
DD Tachikaze engages DD O'Brien at 13,000 yards
Task forces break off...


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ASW attack near Kirakira at 116,140

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-16

Allied Ships
DD Henley
CA Cornwall
CA Australia
CA San Francisco, on fire
CA Salt Lake City
CL Tromp
CL Leander
DD McCall
DD Selfridge
DD Flusser, on fire
DD Wilson
DD Lang

SSX Ha-16 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Henley
Ha-16 bottoming out ....
DD Selfridge fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Flusser fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Wilson fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Lang fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Flusser fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Wilson fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Flusser fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Wilson fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Shell hits 40, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Oite
DD Hayate, Shell hits 9, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Pensacola
CA Salt Lake City
CA San Francisco, on fire
CA Australia
CA Cornwall
CL Leander
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
CL Hobart
DD Henley
DD Jarvis, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
DD McCall, on fire
DD Benham
DD Lang
DD Wilson
DD Flusser, on fire
DD Selfridge

Improved night sighting under 78% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 78% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 22,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Lang at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Jarvis at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Hayate at 9,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Leander at 9,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Selfridge at 9,000 yards
DD Wilson engages DD Hayate at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Leander at 6,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Hayate at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 3,000 yards
DD Selfridge engages DD Hayate at 3,000 yards
DD Selfridge engages DD Hayate at 3,000 yards
DD Benham engages DD Hayate at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Salt Lake City at 3,000 yards
DD Hayate engages DD Lang at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
CA Australia engages DD Hayate at 4,000 yards
DD Flusser engages DD Hayate at 4,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA San Francisco at 5,000 yards
CA Australia engages DD Hayate at 5,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Jarvis at 5,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL De Ruyter at 4,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Benham at 4,000 yards
DD McCall engages DD Hayate at 4,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Oite at 4,000 yards
DD McCall engages DD Oite at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Salt Lake City at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 4,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Oite at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 4,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 7,000 yards
DD Jarvis engages DD Oite at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
DD Selfridge engages DD Oite at 8,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...


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Night Time Surface Combat, near Kirakira at 116,140, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 6 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Shell hits 48, and is sunk
DD Oite

Allied Ships
CA Pensacola
CA Salt Lake City
CA Australia
CA Cornwall
CL Leander
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
CL Hobart
DD Henley
DD Benham
DD Lang, Shell hits 1
DD Selfridge

Improved night sighting under 78% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 78% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 22,000 yards...
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 12,000 yards
CA Australia engages DD Oite at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Leander at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Benham at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Lang engages DD Oite at 9,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Salt Lake City at 9,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 9,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL Hobart at 9,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CL De Ruyter at 9,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Selfridge at 9,000 yards
DD Lang engages DD Oite at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Salt Lake City at 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Henley at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 6,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Benham at 6,000 yards
DD Henley engages DD Oite at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Pensacola at 7,000 yards
DD Oite engages DD Benham at 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Cornwall at 7,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CA Australia at 7,000 yards
BB Yamato sunk by CA Pensacola at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
DD Benham engages DD Oite at 9,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...

[Lokasenna]

At this date in the game, that TF looks like KB bait.

[Alpha77]

No KB at this time there....

... and Allies have ca. 160 fighters at Kira and 140 on Ndeni plus 300 or so bombers/aux planes (I dont want to send any ships near these air concentrations in day light, you perhaps?).

... and btw read more in the AAR except the torps failing also the fatser TF arrived after the slower one (departure was for both Tassa), as well noticed nothing of the huge battle with dozends of ships on fire in the night [8|] And was surprised LOL IJN is blind, dumb and deaf.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

No KB at this time there....

... and Allies have ca. 150 fighters at Kira and 130-140 or more on Ndeni plus 200 or so bombers/aux planes (I dont want to send any ships near these air concentrations in day light, you perhaps?).

... and btw read more in the AAR except the torps failing also the fatser TF arrived after the slower one (departure was for both Tassa), as well noticed nothing of the huge battle with dozends of ships on fire in the night [8|] And was surprised LOL IJN is blind, dumb and deaf.

The Japanese advantage was in visual spotting at night if it was dark enough. It wasn't, and Allied radar had your TF detected long before shooting started:

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 67% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 8,000 yards
Kingman, F.V. crosses the 'T'

The game seems to give the Allies an advantage in gunnery if the visibility is really good. And I see by your AAR screenshots that the British/Commonwealth ships with working torpedoes got the torpedo hits on Yamato. These ships generally have good crew experience and good captains.

BBs were never intended to fight a close-in battle in the dark - their rate of fire and maneuverability is too low. Their big guns should be reserved for daylight engagements at long range and shore bombardments. Unfortunately the game does not allow for exact control of when engagements take place.

[Hotei]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

No KB at this time there....

... and Allies have ca. 150 fighters at Kira and 130-140 or more on Ndeni plus 200 or so bombers/aux planes (I dont want to send any ships near these air concentrations in day light, you perhaps?).

... and btw read more in the AAR except the torps failing also the fatser TF arrived after the slower one (departure was for both Tassa), as well noticed nothing of the huge battle with dozends of ships on fire in the night [8|] And was surprised LOL IJN is blind, dumb and deaf.

They had radar and crossed you T, you sunk a BB also.
You seem to fight on equal or even worse terms, that is the major issue.

[Alpha77]

Is this moonlight number you get exact ? It is for the next night right ? It now says 78% moonlight at the top; this is for all the map ? And the bigger the % the worse for IJN ships right?


I was pondering if I wait a tuen to send the ships, but decided against it (Tassa is no really safe place for bigger ships imho). This was also an experiment, as noted most ships are from the list (and I lost only one of them plus only 1 CL badly damaged and a DD sunk), if torps had hit and worked the battle would have been better (one CA of the USN was hit by by big shell also, a torp would have sunk her), the Kitakami has 40 torps right ? They fired all of them, no hit. I noted already before these ships hit almost nothing for some reason.


Hotei, the Allies build huge TFs always and they work ok for them, our huge TFs seem not to work good (as ppl pointed out smaller TFs are better), so there is no real choice right? I can build easily a maxed out SF TF too but they would perform bad probably build in game malus for bad radios, electronics, command/control of the IJN?

But from the AAR you can see we won some surface fights and some others were more a draw. The bad performance of the bigger Kongo lead TF was the main issue.I corrected the mistakes like bad CO, SF combat mission, sending a recon and night search (as not being surprised, but they still were suprised lol) and in fact this TF performed better (they at least scored lots of gun hits if lousy torpedo performance)... Yamato is just too weak in armor and ammo usage etc for being some kind of super ship (at least in the game)

and:
The CO from Yamato was quite low AGR (better LS and NAV) but as LOKA already suspected he still closed to Allied cruisers and DDs so AGR value seems to have no impact (would need more testing perhaps)

[Jorge_Stanbury]

With Japan you have so few ships that you will need to find a use to each; simply as that, even if that use is to remain in port as "fleet in being"

As far as not building:
- Late war "autogyro" CVEs; the ones that look like xAKs
- submarines: I will build a few, but they are really too costly for the service they provide (besides I start with plenty)
- Poor fuel efficient xAKLs ... I would use those already built but other than those with nice conversions, I won't build more

[Alpha77]

Yup the Std-AKLs are really bad, the Std C and bigger can convert to TKs so I build some of them. The CVEs I have cancelled the ones with only 9 planes, but will try to build the ones with 12 planes (still bad - but may be useful for asw, escort). If the game goes that far...

..btw a pity we do not get any more usefull cruisers. I really would like one eg. modelled from Mogami, but trading more armor and AA for shorter range.[:)] In these waters when ships can refuel at Shortlands and Rabaul the long range is not needed really. And I won´t sail KB all over the map so also does not need long range (escort cruisers)

...(same for Zeros and Oscars btw. I rarely use their range at all)

[SheperdN7]

I used to really not like even building Yamato but after I learned that they are great in massive 20-25 ship SC TF's I have learned to love them.


Don't know why I see people using them in 8 ships TF's honestly makes a lot more sense to put them with a big fleet and to slug away at opposing forces.

Save the small TF's for hit and runs with CL's and DD's

[Hotei]

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

I used to really not like even building Yamato but after I learned that they are great in massive 20-25 ship SC TF's I have learned to love them.


Don't know why I see people using them in 8 ships TF's honestly makes a lot more sense to put them with a big fleet and to slug away at opposing forces.

Save the small TF's for hit and runs with CL's and DD's

The fact that Japan can barely buy a full tank of gas for them is the biggest reason not to build them.

[SheperdN7]

The fact that when combined, they have 18 of the most powerful guns in the game is enough for me to build them.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

The fact that when combined, they have 18 of the most powerful guns in the game is enough for me to build them.

The problems with the Yamato's are legion, though

- How do you get them to fire on targets that are actually worth the cost?
- Torpedo magnets
- Pier queens: even limited damage takes ages to repair
- Exceptionally difficult to reload anywhere other than the biggest ports.
- Guzzle fuel at a gargantuan rate.
- On the slow side for modern BB's.

Yeah, I'd trade both for three more decent IJN CA's.

[Encircled]

Don't think I've ever built them in my games as Japan.

VP magnets

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Don't think I've ever built them in my games as Japan.

VP magnets

I'd rather build them and have them soak bombs/torpedoes in KB at the very least than lose a carrier.

[Cavalry Corp]

My Y and Mush are now sadly gone in oct 44 but they sank a lot of ships during the war including 4 allied BB sunk ( including the New Jersey) or so badly damaged they are out of the war. The are well worth building. The Kongo class is good as its fast, for raiding and also CV escort. All other BB ( and all other ships) that cannot make over 25kts seem to be TT magnets - I have been playing for a long time I know so. Do not look at AA values in stock ( I think the game is a bit inaccurate in this ), I do all the upgrades the AA difference is no value on any ship, radar ok that is good. ASW upgrades that too is good.

I would say all ships have a good use just like chess pieces.

This is my first PBEM SCN 2 -and boy are you in for a shock if you do too much and find the oil cut in mid 44 by Oct 44 you will be on your knees.
The problem for Japan is keeping fuel available for ships and industry. And for that reason I keep the guzzling short rangers in DEI most of the time and use fuel from the DEI where at all possible. AO with them also only collect fuel from the DEI.

Not sure about building Jap SS. I do not like to play too much with hindsight, they saw value so I guess they should be built and many do have use, esp ones with range that can keep away from strong allied ASW assets. The SST I agree are rubbish - not sure they even work properly. I have had some fun with the i400 and 401 - caused more than a few ships to slip under the waves and tied up a lot tracking them. But the mistake I made was getting them before Oct 44 when the Seiran is available!! Live and learn.

[BBfanboy]

The "AA value" counts the number of barrels of AA guns to come up with a number, I think, just like ASW value is the number of weapons that can be fired/dropped on subs underwater. The effectiveness of the weapon is in the combat resolution algorithm and it looks at range, rate of fire, supporting radar detection, and perhaps reliability. The IJN 25mm AA gun was poor in range, rate of fire and reliability. Best IJN defence against aircraft is other aircraft or speed+maneuver.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

Don't know why I see people using them in 8 ships TF's honestly makes a lot more sense to put them with a big fleet and to slug away at opposing forces.

Save the small TF's for hit and runs with CL's and DD's

Yes but the big sized TFs do not work well for IJN, as pointed out by several ppl not only in this thread. See the Kongo battle which was a big powerful TFs and they were lousy (for other reasons perhaps too). The smaller one worked indeed better as I corrected mistakes (even if the CO seems tohave no big influence to close or not). At least they dealed out some serious (gun)damage and most ships survived, contrary to the other fleet.

Well obviously I used the wrong moonlight % tho, as ppl also pointed out.
But does not matter it helped to decide to stop Mushashi and accelerate more useful stuff (CV,DD)

I wanted to stop using valuable SF ships for a while, but now the Allies (perhaps triggered by Yamato loss) bombard Tassa with good effect and as also pointed out there is not much one can do other than using SF fleets. I had 5 mini subs and a real sub there and mines. All these hit nothing....Must think about this.

[Cavalry Corp]

Thanks yes - more 25mm mean nothing - I never notice any difference, there probably should or maybe some maybe the game is at error or maybe something else. I guess the only effective gun is the 5 inch and the 3.9.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: cavalry

Thanks yes - more 25mm mean nothing - I never notice any difference, there probably should or maybe some maybe the game is at error or maybe something else. I guess the only effective gun is the 5 inch and the 3.9.

25mm is better than nothing or only MGs, but indeed compared with other AA weapons they were pretty poor. I seldom saw some serious losses by Allied planes attacking IJ ships (even with high AA value), the other way around already in 43 the game will see more IJ losses to Allied ship AA. Pretty realistic right.

And yes, I would also trade 2 x Yamato vs. 3 CAs (the upgraded Mogami with more armour but less range would be cool if it existed [;)])