Wargammer of the Year Attempt #1

[MikeJ19]

Larry,

You attention to detail is so very good. I like your idea of moving the units mopping up into the void.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,

Hey there Mike man. How's your game going? Thanks for posting....I like thread traffic.

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
You attention to detail is so very good. I like your idea of moving the units mopping up into the void.

I'm pretty sure that attention to detail is an advantage for this game. I used to play WITP-AE and that's a game designed for the OCD among us. There's so much to keep track of that there's a third party program that will read the save file and generate reports and tables of data to show trends and current levels etc. Each individual pilot is represented for both sides with skill levels for each pilot for about a dozen skills ( straffing, ground attack, escort, etc. ). TOAW IV isn't nearly as complex but it does have almost everything you need to play this game. There's things missing from the game engine ( night missions for aircraft, etc. ) but for the most part war is accurately represented. It's a wonderful game and reminds me a lot of chess but it's a LOT more complicated.

[larryfulkerson]

Elements of the 19th Panzer are fighting in Kilmovichi alongside the 225th Infantry
Division. The Soviets have remnants in the building to the right and a Molitov
cocktail was just thrown from an open window and has engulfed one of the Axis
vehicles. This has just happened and the troops haven't yet started to put it out.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the T13 front lines before I have moved anybody.

[larryfulkerson]

I've got plans to drive through a Soviet weak spot to do a left hook and try to
get on the inside of the Soviet lines and roll toward the north trapping as many
Soviet units as possible and destroying them. I expect Elmer to respond in some
way to thwart my plans but so far he hasn't.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's a spot down south where there's a lot of action going on. I'm driving the
Hungarians to the front lines where they can lend a hand. They are good for recon
and garrison duties but they are almost worthless on the front lines so this is a
rare occurance. I've got plans to drive them toward Kharkov in a few turns.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what it looks like in T14 before I have moved anybody.

[EwaldvonKleist]

In TOAW AARs, as compared to WitE-AARs, you usually see a broad front advance without deep penetrations. Here is an example from WitE of what I mean, look at the penetratration at Smolensk: tm.asp?m=4067937&mpage=2&key=&#4091353

Also, the forces are more or less equally distributed along the front instead of concentrated on a Schwerpunkt (at least it seems that way from the distribution of the blue counters on the overview maps). Can someone who has played both games enlighten me on what differences in game mechanics are responsible for that?

[cpt flam]

first of all, you can't use a corp to make a breakthrough and than advance full speed with others. Here spending time is the same for everybody.
second Russia will not be impeded as in WitE, they pay ground as Germany; perhaps a bit more but not much.
not advancing on a broad front will leave Elmer sending ants to cut behind
that's from first coming to mind

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
In TOAW AARs, as compared to WitE-AARs, you usually see a broad front advance without deep penetrations. Here is an example from WitE of what I mean, look at the penetratration at Smolensk: tm.asp?m=4067937&mpage=2&key=?

Also, the forces are more or less equally distributed along the front instead of concentrated on a Schwerpunkt (at least it seems that way from the distribution of the blue counters on the overview maps). Can someone who has played both games enlighten me on what differences in game mechanics are responsible for that?

I'm not sure I know for sure what the differences are, and I've played both games. I never thought of it before I guess.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Thank you for your comments. If I read you correctly, the main factors are:
-time during turn/attacks is progressing for all units at the same time, so deep breakthroughs are harder to achieve
-shorter turn lengths, so the Soviets can react better
-Soviets do not pay such a high cost for entering enemy hexagons/moving through ZOCs as in WitE, therefore they can infiltrate lines much easier, which dictates a broad front advance and flank security.

Do TOAW eastern front scenarios have an element that works against SOviet runaway defences evacuating everything in the west and build a wall of steel somewhere between the Daugava-Dniepr line and the Leningrad/Moscow/Voronesh/Rostov line?
Because if the russian player doesn't let the huge pockets happen, the Red Army will be much stronger than historical come fall 1941.

[larryfulkerson]

Do TOAW eastern front scenarios have an element that works against SOviet runaway defences evacuating everything in the west and build a wall of steel somewhere between the Daugava-Dniepr line and the Leningrad/Moscow/Voronesh/Rostov line?

Some scenarios have the Soviet units in garrison mode so that they can't move or shoot until they have been attacked.

[larryfulkerson]

This is a close up of the section of the front lines where there's a bulge forming.
Elmer hasn't been keeping up with his maintance of the front lines and he left
a hole and I'm fighting to expand it and to see if I can't take advantage of it in
some way. I need more units to take advantage of it propely but this is a shoestring
operation and there's some things I cannot do but there's enough things I CAN do that
progress is still being made.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what it looks like around Odessa right now. I'm going to say that the siege
of Odessa starts soon. The RR engineers in this area didn't make any progress this turn. D'oh.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines in the north right now. I'm fighting to mop up the area
to the west of Narva by cutting off the supply of all those units. That will
make the take-down easier and I can get the advance back on the road. I feel like
I'm way behind schedule.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what it looks like down south. I'm clearing out the territories between the
rivers and I'm moving to the SE and I keep running into isolated instances of Soviet
units in small groups or just a single one at a time and I'm thinking it's going to
be a few turns yet before I'll be done.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what's going on around Leningrad currently. The Finns are slowly pushing the
Soviets south and the Germans are slowly clearing the area west of Narva and there's
several units pushing out into Soviet territory to get a gauge of the response, staying
there closer to Leningrad if possible and drive another unit closer, rinse and repeat.

There's a lot of Soviet airpower represented here at Leningrad and I've flown in four
fighter squadrons of Me-109's to contest the air. The losses meter shows how
hot the air war is just now. I've got all the fighters on three-dots. I'm doing that
because of the difference in the proficiency of the two forces, Axis having the advantage,
and the difference in air shock levels. Axis air shock is 120 and the Soviet air shock
is 75.

[cpt flam]

you must take care of Finnish fighters, their production has been review.
some start later and it would be bad to lost them [&o]

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: cpt flam
you must take care of Finnish fighters, their production has been review.
some start later and it would be bad to lost them

Hey there Captain Flam dude. Thanks for posting your heads up info. Per your
suggestion for a review, I did a cut and paste of the appropriate Finn squadrons
and looked up their planes and discovered that you're right. Some of those bad
boys don't arrive until T50 or so. Some of these guys need to be parked and used
sparingly. The good news is that I don't plan on using the Finn airforce anywhere
except Finland so once the city of Leningrad is taken I suspect the Finns will be
largely finished with the war. In real life they didn't participate in the fighting
except in around the Leningrad area generally and Finland in particular. Once the
city has fallen the Finn airforce can retire.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines in T16 and I have moved only the OKH unit to just
south of the front lines in the north. I have been scanning this picture for the
last several minutes and I see places where I need to shift the troops to fill a
void or spread out the troops to make the lines more even instead of clumpy and
I need to remember to check the supply levels before I initiate any attacks or move
units around. I need to stay out of those hexes that are less than 5. That's the
overextended threashold. I'm guessing I'm close to those hexes right now, at least
in certain spots down south. There's a gap in the supply spread from Kiev to the
other RR teams near Odessa where there's not a lot of supply and I wanted to circle
the Soviets by hugging the rivers and then clearing the center but it's not working
out that way. I've got a bad case of victory disease and I need to stop chasing
Soviet units in the center in the bad supply hexes. I need to get them in a large
pocket first.