The Next War 1979 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. larry

[mussey]

C. Larry, NATO hit the soft underbelly, and one of the weakest sectors in 'Sudden War'. If you can survive the die roll, I think his momentum will be partial and temporary. He may have used up quite a bit of early scarce resources, his REFORGER units are the only sizable reinforcements until much later. I'm curious how you will deploy the Soviet follow-up forces...

[Hellen_slith]

Some observations from our game (fr. NATO side):

TNW-Expanded has even more chess-like qualities than TNW, but now they on steroids.

So many units. Love the new units. This is as close as we get (Occidentally, that is) to that Chinese (or is it Japanese) chess-like game with the board that's 128 x 128, and you have all kinds of units, from the Emperor down to the foot soldier. Not "Go" but that other game. ANYWAY,

Another chess-like quality, is the variety of "opening moves" that are possible in TNW and the Expanded ver. from Sudden and whatever Tension one might use.

You can either try to brute force your way through the center (your classic KP opening in Chess), or play the Austrian card ...

On NATO (like the black pieces in Chess, the "defender") you also have so many options. I like to "castle Queen-side" as I call it w/ the French (maybe the TOAW "French Defense"?) whereby I move Frenchies North to allow the Dutch and Belge to take up positions that naturally reinforce BAOR.

As for WG: Hamburg should (I think) always be abandoned by NATO, stat. Better to use those units BEHIND the river and let WP use up their supply getting across there. Plus, it just seems right, Hamburg is such a beautiful city.

Which makes me think: would NATO be better served to DISBAND Berlin ASAP on move 2 (or whatever turn it might be before WP bombs them?) That too, is a lost cause....would that equipment go into "the pool" instead?

Just wondering. Okay, anyway, Larry my friend: It looks like (not sure) from your screen shot, that EG is now in revolt, and thus those EG units I used to see are now kaputengegehgen?

If so, that was a pretty fair exchange, I think: the Austrians for the EG, that is. Very much like an exchange in Chess. I think we are approaching the "middle game" now. Looking forward to your move!

H

[Hellen_slith]

[/quote]

After release of Beta, I tweaked GT #2 so that the WP suffers a 24hr movement penalty (to reflect assembling/de-assembling to/from motor pools); while NATO suffers a 48 hour movement penalty to reflect 24 hrs of delayed reaction plus the 24hrs to mobilize. In 'Tension' of multiple turns this has little impact, but in 'Sudden War' it creates some havoc. There is also a 2% chance of that each formation may be unable to move that turn. This may not seem like much, but in my tests with multiple formations it usually results with several being affected.

[/quote]

Ah, ok, that seems reasonable. I have started a lot of games in "hot seat" (just to move a few turns, to see how it feels with the events) and have noticed that sometimes this, sometimes that, so that explains it, sometimes I get to move these guys over there, sometimes this formation doesn't go ... it puts some variability into the opening moves that is very interesting to see at work, but is still very subtle. Lots of fun!!

Any recent news about a planned Alpha release date?

Thanks again for such a great expansion!

[mussey]

I think we are approaching the "middle game"

You ain't seen nothing yet, the end of the first act is coming to a close for sure, but still in the beginning. Hellen, I'm curious where the Soviet 2nd echelon Fronts are, have they arrived at the front yet? Also curious about the Soviet Airborne Divs. One dropped in Norway, not sure where the others are.

[Hellen_slith]

ORIGINAL: mussey

I think we are approaching the "middle game"

You ain't seen nothing yet, the end of the first act is coming to a close for sure, but still in the beginning. Hellen, I'm curious where the Soviet 2nd echelon Fronts are, have they arrived at the front yet? Also curious about the Soviet Airborne Divs. One dropped in Norway, not sure where the others are.

I'm not sure ... I *am* sure that Larry has something up his sleeve.

He has been very ... insistent ... I guess that might be the word, that I not be able to move much, b/c I am struck by just wave after wave of his interdiction strikes. The "Air War" in this scene is very interesting. I have found that I actually have very few (non-nuclear) Pershing missiles left ... those guys ran out of ammo QUICK.

Where is 1979's version of Zaharoff when you need 'm?? I need more Pershing missiles.

Very fun scene!

[mussey]

After release of Beta, I tweaked GT #2 so that the WP suffers a 24hr movement penalty (to reflect assembling/de-assembling to/from motor pools); while NATO suffers a 48 hour movement penalty to reflect 24 hrs of delayed reaction plus the 24hrs to mobilize. In 'Tension' of multiple turns this has little impact, but in 'Sudden War' it creates some havoc. There is also a 2% chance of that each formation may be unable to move that turn. This may not seem like much, but in my tests with multiple formations it usually results with several being affected.
[/quote]
[/quote]
With the advent of allowing players to choose 'Sudden War' or a selection of beginning game turns with 'Tension', Bob Cross has created a variety of what-if options. My aim in Expanded was to open up some grand strategy so that both forces could take advantage of their strengths, and deployment options of reinforcements. The expansion to include Norway and surround seas is one example.

That being said, several high level intelligence reports (CIA, NSA, DIA) highly suggested that the Soviets would NOT have invaded until Front HQ's were established, and another Front was deployed in East Germany (probably the Polish). They estimated 4-8 days. And yet, war directly out of the barracks (I think) would greatly help the WP by allowing their air force to get a jump, and allowing their land units to capture entry-level key points for their 2nd and 3rd echelon forces.

Keep at it, your AAR allows me to make a few more revisions before final release.

[mussey]

Larry has something up his sleeve.

LOL. Of course he does. He's an evil genius. And you stole his goat by taking Karl Marx Stadt. Now that you took it, what are you going to do with it and how are you going to get out?

[Hellen_slith]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

New moves from Damon. He has thrust some troops into my front lines and has made a breech and I need to fix it ASAP because this is a game changer. I'm not sure what kind of reply I can mount.

Don't forget Pennemunde up North.

Those Danes are feeling randy up there...

I think that's what you call, a "double - check" there, in Chess terms, what w/ USAEUR funneling cash into EG ...

Interesting game!!!

[Hellen_slith]

as of NATO beginning Turn 5:

[Hellen_slith]

All these colos makes me think about Santa...all the reads and greens ....

Hre is the area around Fulda Gap, or there abouts:

[cathar1244]

What are the divisional-sized engineer units in the Pact forces?

Cheers

[mussey]

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

What are the divisional-sized engineer units in the Pact forces?

Cheers

The orbats for a Soviet Front includes division-sized engineers that comprise of 3-4 brigades. Since Beta, I broke down several of them into their brigade equivalents.

At times I am conflicted of including many of these engineers on both sides since there appears to be little use for them. (I migrated to TOAW from WITP AE where they have a huge impact). Some engineers have been omitted and their assets divided among the combat units.

Survey Question to Larry and Hellen: Are you utilizing the many engineers, or do they just add clutter?

[cathar1244]

Bear in mind many of the engineers would be busy maintaining roads behind the lines. I read somewhere a long time ago that was the bulk of engineering activity for U.S. engineers in the 1944-45 campaign in NW Europe.

Cheers

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: mussey

ORIGINAL: cathar1244
What are the divisional-sized engineer units in the Pact forces?

The orbats for a Soviet Front includes division-sized engineers that comprise of 3-4 brigades. Since Beta, I broke down several of them into their brigade equivalents.

At times I am conflicted of including many of these engineers on both sides since there appears to be little use for them. (I migrated to TOAW from WITP AE where they have a huge impact). Some engineers have been omitted and their assets divided among the combat units.

Survey Question to Larry and Hellen: Are you utilizing the many engineers, or do they just add clutter?

I've had several bridges to fix. I need those engineers. They help my units dig in faster. They are handy for plugging a front line hole quickly. I wish they could fix the rails as well as bridges.

[mussey]

I continually learn as we move along. One item that I contemplated was the introduction of paramilitary forces. Since Beta, the Territorial Reserves of W.Ger, UK, and a few Natl Gd units of the US were added.

Now since watching you two hammer away at each other, I decided to add the "The Combat Groups of the Working Class (German: Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse, KdA) was a paramilitary organization in the German Democratic Republic (GDR) from 1953 to 1989.

The KdA served as the de facto militia of the ruling Socialist Unity Party of Germany composed of party members and politically reliable working people, based on dictatorship of the proletariat principles, to be deployed locally to fight civil unrest or invasion. The KdA was a civil reserve force tied to the GDR's Ministry of the Interior and the Volkspolizei, reaching 211,000 personnel at its peak in 1980..." [Wiki]

These add a lot of units - about 45 regiment-size units. 20 will be added as fixed in the cities of East Germany, 25 will be mobile to follow the Soviet invasion as rear security. To balance this out, I will add a Guerrilla Event. This is new, I hope I don't break this scenario.

Kudos to both of you for reporting an excellent match-up, showcasing this new game, and providing feedback.

[larryfulkerson]

One item that I contemplated was the introduction of paramilitary forces.

In addition to the paramilitary forces, I'd like to lobby for such organizations such as
the SAS, SBS, Delta Force, USN Seals, Green Berets, etc.

[mussey]

I wish they could fix the rails as well as bridges.

I could alter the equipment of regular engineers to also fix rails (? I think). If so, should I try this? Also, thinking outside the box, what other flags could I plausible mark to give these units added utility...

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: mussey

I wish they could fix the rails as well as bridges.

I could alter the equipment of regular engineers to also fix rails (? I think). If so, should I try this? Also, thinking outside the box, what other flags could I plausible mark to give these units added utility...

How about minor and major ferry abilities?

[mussey]

How about minor and major ferry abilities?

Exactly. If altered, the new engineer could do all three: engineer/rail/ferry, mitigating the breakdown of function in the TOAW equipment. These guys were a jack-of-all-trades. Are there any other flags such as combat, or naval, or air that could be used? Maybe a air base with added supply?

[larryfulkerson]

Maybe a[n] air base with added supply?

I'm not sure I know what you mean here. The presence of the engineer unit boosts the supply available at the air base? Like they act like a supply depot or a supply unit or something?