Japanese Economy Advice

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I am in scenario 2 as well and I looked at the max range. I don't think that carrier strikes can go beyond 8 hexes, at least to enemy TFs since they can relocate.

I believe RangerJoe is right, but this is an 'undocumented feature'. CV naval strikes won't go beyond 8 hexes and this is 'hard coded'-regardless of the ranges of the planes involved.

I clearly remembered I argued few months ago with PaxMondo and others regarding that. Apparently, someone had (consistent?) results in trying to send strikes over the prescribed 8 hexes.

In any case, I feel that relying on that is quite foolish, but that's just my personal perception.

Agree-relying on >7 hex strikes to come to fruition is likely to result in disappointment.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




I believe RangerJoe is right, but this is an 'undocumented feature'. CV naval strikes won't go beyond 8 hexes and this is 'hard coded'-regardless of the ranges of the planes involved.

I clearly remembered I argued few months ago with PaxMondo and others regarding that. Apparently, someone had (consistent?) results in trying to send strikes over the prescribed 8 hexes.

In any case, I feel that relying on that is quite foolish, but that's just my personal perception.

Agree-relying on >7 hex strikes to come to fruition is likely to result in disappointment.

Greater than 7 hex sweeps almost always fly.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




I believe RangerJoe is right, but this is an 'undocumented feature'. CV naval strikes won't go beyond 8 hexes and this is 'hard coded'-regardless of the ranges of the planes involved.

I clearly remembered I argued few months ago with PaxMondo and others regarding that. Apparently, someone had (consistent?) results in trying to send strikes over the prescribed 8 hexes.

In any case, I feel that relying on that is quite foolish, but that's just my personal perception.

Agree-relying on >7 hex strikes to come to fruition is likely to result in disappointment.

Yes but strikes to where? To an enemy base? That base does not move so it should be easier to navigate there and then return to a known point where your portable airfield is. To an enemy TF that may have moved over 30 Nautical Miles (a NM, 6000 feet is a NM) per hour? That would be hard to achieve, especially with a large strike package.

Look what happened at Midway, all the torpedo bombers made it around the same time but the Enterprise dive bombers arrived around the same time as the Yorktown's dive bombers which launched an hour later. The Hornets dive bombers and escorting fighters headed to Midway where some of the escorting fighters decided to land on the ocean since they needed to refuel.

So the best thing to do is try and hide in bad weather. That is, bad enough to hinder the enemy search as well as fragment the enemy raid while the enemy is in nice, clear weather. That is what happened at Coral Sea.

Of course, if you can get SCTFs to disrupt the large Carrier group and get some CVTFs to disengage, then you want any strikes that you can hit the target to do so. Even cargo ships can disrupt the enemy carrier TFs. That would be a good use for those small standard cargo vessels . . . [8|]

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

In one of my two PBEMs I have roughly this setting:


- 8 factories to A6M8 straight from Rufe. I will put A6M5/A6M5c in escort on CVs later on when it comes online naturally. I want a good CAP ASAP, though. Engine bonus.
- 8 factories on the Oscar line. I research each plane but I do produce only the -Ic, the -IIa and the -IV.
- 6 factories on the Tojo. I get the initial Tojo-IIa and then I skip directly to the final Tojo-IIc. I produce very few Tojo-IIa.
- 16 factories on the Frank-b. I wanted to try to go for it instead of -a and then -r as usual.
- 6 factories on Jack. I am a strong proponent of George but I wanted something new in my lineup.
- 8 factories on the Judy. Straight to Judy-IV once they're repaired.
- Few factories here and there. Most of the remaining ones are on the Pegy(T).

Production in mid-42:
- 100 A6M2 (factories closed 30% of the time)
- 150 Oscar-Ic (factories closed 30% of the time)
- 120 Helen-IIa
- 50 long range Nell
- 20 Emily
- 5 Mavis-TR
- 20 Thalia
- 35 Nate (until engines finish)
- 20 Ida (same as Nate)
- 50 Jake (FP groups around resized)
- 50 Kate
- 50 Val
- 30 Dinah-II (until engines finish)
- 50 Nick
- 30 Lily
- 50 Sally
- 20 Glen (until engines finish)
- 15 Ann (until engines finish)
- 20 Rufe (Rufe groups resized to 24 each)

Rationale behind the production is to have a strong potential production but not wast HI. I do the whole Oscar line and it's gonna be my SR fighter for most of the war, so I am somehow fine in having very large factories. A6M2 will be phased out on CVs by A6M8 relatively quickly, but I keep the factory closed and switch it back to production once the SenBaku comes online, since you can upgrade the A6M2 factory to Sen Baku and then to A6M8.

I do produce huge amounts of bombers 2E and I advice against it. Simply, I have extremely demanding land campaigns around the map. In my other PBEM I produce 200 Helen-IIa per-month and I am unable to keep groups at strength now in mid-43.

Generally, I like to have deep pools of planes I know I'm gonna use anyway. In this way I can focus my production on some a/c for a while and then change the factory output to something different once I know that the pool I created is gonna last for the war.

In other words, I extensively produce in "lots" rather than in "flows". So far, everything fine. In the above PBEM we are at like 01-aug-42 and I have 400k HI points in the bank even if I have expanded NavShipyard to 1.700
In the other one I'm sailing over 1.5M HI in mid-43 even if I produce many bombers (something like 350 2E per-month) and fighters (400 per-month) and I have expanded vehicles to 350.

What I mean is that you can do whatever you want, just, be extremely careful supply-wise.

Buonasera! Grazie. It's good to get different view on R&D and production[:)]

From previous knowledge my opponent (my Dad) is quite conservative in his play so I don't think I'll need a mass expansion of all current production models. I'd rather just produce what I need to achieve my 1942 aims and save as much HI as I can for the 'fun'.

As such my current production plans are:

A6M2 - 60-90
Oscar 1C - 60-90
Sally IIa - 60-90 (was planning to produce Helen's when they come around naturally)
Kate2 - 30-60
Val - 30-60
C5M2 - 10
Jakes - 45-60
Nate - use up engines
G3M2 - 30
G4M - 30
Mavis - 10
Dinah II - 10
Tina - 10
Sally Transport - 10

Thoughts All?

I'd put 60 into the G3M line and not bother with the G4M at all. The G3M3 arrives very early and has amazing range, carrying torpedoes out to 21 hexes. The minor improvements in performance with the various G4M models isn't worth the reduction in range.

Up Jakes to 75/month, there's a strong need to replace all the shipboard planes with these (as well as the land based squadrons)

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus





I clearly remembered I argued few months ago with PaxMondo and others regarding that. Apparently, someone had (consistent?) results in trying to send strikes over the prescribed 8 hexes.

In any case, I feel that relying on that is quite foolish, but that's just my personal perception.

Agree-relying on >7 hex strikes to come to fruition is likely to result in disappointment.

Greater than 7 hex sweeps almost always fly.

Yes. I've had some success there. Have you ever seen a (per ITAKLinus's comments) a CV naval strike come off at >7 hexes?

[ITAKLinus]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




Agree-relying on >7 hex strikes to come to fruition is likely to result in disappointment.

Greater than 7 hex sweeps almost always fly.

Yes. I've had some success there. Have you ever seen a (per ITAKLinus's comments) a CV naval strike come off at >7 hexes?

NOTE I : I was speaking about CV vs CV or naval strikes in general. Sweeps and port strikes, as incidentally mentioned in some of my previous posts in this thread, go up to the range of the involved planes, i.e. no "8 hex restriction".

NOTE II: during the discussion with PaxMondo and others I was the one wondering about that and I have been rightfully correct by the mentioned PaxMondo who explained that going over the 8 hexes can happen. In fact, it's not hard-coded. That's the whole point I guess.



I am completely against even taking the thing into consideration. Not because it cannot happen, rather because it happens in very peculiar conditions and it's extremely rare. I need to rely on what I do. That's why I tend not even to try 8-hexes strikes: either I go in fully or I don't go at all.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I-16 is a Soviet biplane, right? And the pilot packed three torps on a biplane. What a gyeroy!. Must be a Jap plot to start a war between USA and USSR.

It is a biplane that can also carry a minisub. Now, that is one heck of a feet!

With a fuel storage explosion, the Lady Lex may even be doomed if the fires are bad enough. But she is a tough Lady.

Yeah I'm not taking anything for granted knowing how durable her and Sara are. I've 6 other subs in the local area, 2 x AMC are also there and will spread out using their search planes [:)] KB is 2-3 days away. Canton is the most likely limp to port with it being the nearest size 2.....we'll see....

I spent 2 hours allocating all the R&D Facs to the assigned models this turn and resizing those I could to 30.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

In one of my two PBEMs I have roughly this setting:


- 8 factories to A6M8 straight from Rufe. I will put A6M5/A6M5c in escort on CVs later on when it comes online naturally. I want a good CAP ASAP, though. Engine bonus.
- 8 factories on the Oscar line. I research each plane but I do produce only the -Ic, the -IIa and the -IV.
- 6 factories on the Tojo. I get the initial Tojo-IIa and then I skip directly to the final Tojo-IIc. I produce very few Tojo-IIa.
- 16 factories on the Frank-b. I wanted to try to go for it instead of -a and then -r as usual.
- 6 factories on Jack. I am a strong proponent of George but I wanted something new in my lineup.
- 8 factories on the Judy. Straight to Judy-IV once they're repaired.
- Few factories here and there. Most of the remaining ones are on the Pegy(T).

Production in mid-42:
- 100 A6M2 (factories closed 30% of the time)
- 150 Oscar-Ic (factories closed 30% of the time)
- 120 Helen-IIa
- 50 long range Nell
- 20 Emily
- 5 Mavis-TR
- 20 Thalia
- 35 Nate (until engines finish)
- 20 Ida (same as Nate)
- 50 Jake (FP groups around resized)
- 50 Kate
- 50 Val
- 30 Dinah-II (until engines finish)
- 50 Nick
- 30 Lily
- 50 Sally
- 20 Glen (until engines finish)
- 15 Ann (until engines finish)
- 20 Rufe (Rufe groups resized to 24 each)

Rationale behind the production is to have a strong potential production but not wast HI. I do the whole Oscar line and it's gonna be my SR fighter for most of the war, so I am somehow fine in having very large factories. A6M2 will be phased out on CVs by A6M8 relatively quickly, but I keep the factory closed and switch it back to production once the SenBaku comes online, since you can upgrade the A6M2 factory to Sen Baku and then to A6M8.

I do produce huge amounts of bombers 2E and I advice against it. Simply, I have extremely demanding land campaigns around the map. In my other PBEM I produce 200 Helen-IIa per-month and I am unable to keep groups at strength now in mid-43.

Generally, I like to have deep pools of planes I know I'm gonna use anyway. In this way I can focus my production on some a/c for a while and then change the factory output to something different once I know that the pool I created is gonna last for the war.

In other words, I extensively produce in "lots" rather than in "flows". So far, everything fine. In the above PBEM we are at like 01-aug-42 and I have 400k HI points in the bank even if I have expanded NavShipyard to 1.700
In the other one I'm sailing over 1.5M HI in mid-43 even if I produce many bombers (something like 350 2E per-month) and fighters (400 per-month) and I have expanded vehicles to 350.

What I mean is that you can do whatever you want, just, be extremely careful supply-wise.

Buonasera! Grazie. It's good to get different view on R&D and production[:)]

From previous knowledge my opponent (my Dad) is quite conservative in his play so I don't think I'll need a mass expansion of all current production models. I'd rather just produce what I need to achieve my 1942 aims and save as much HI as I can for the 'fun'.

As such my current production plans are:

A6M2 - 60-90
Oscar 1C - 60-90
Sally IIa - 60-90 (was planning to produce Helen's when they come around naturally)
Kate2 - 30-60
Val - 30-60
C5M2 - 10
Jakes - 45-60
Nate - use up engines
G3M2 - 30
G4M - 30
Mavis - 10
Dinah II - 10
Tina - 10
Sally Transport - 10

Thoughts All?

I'd put 60 into the G3M line and not bother with the G4M at all. The G3M3 arrives very early and has amazing range, carrying torpedoes out to 21 hexes. The minor improvements in performance with the various G4M models isn't worth the reduction in range.

Up Jakes to 75/month, there's a strong need to replace all the shipboard planes with these (as well as the land based squadrons)

Decent shout on the Nell 3. I'll tweak in the coming turns. Thanks

[RangerJoe]

Yes, with a normal range of 21, the ASW range is 10. [:D]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




Agree-relying on >7 hex strikes to come to fruition is likely to result in disappointment.

Greater than 7 hex sweeps almost always fly.

Yes. I've had some success there. Have you ever seen a (per ITAKLinus's comments) a CV naval strike come off at >7 hexes?

All the time as Japan. I pretty much try very hard to maneuver for the 8 hex engagement all thru 1942.

In late 44 and later Allies have pulled off 8 hex naval cv strikes, but much rarer than Japan's frequency. We have talked about it a fair amount in AARs.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Yes, with a normal range of 21, the ASW range is 10. [:D]

Yes for search and asw very good, however I doubt this long range will be usefull at all for nav strikes. Obvious reason is they like to fly into CAP. So lets say you find 3 AKLs with 2 AMs at 15 hexes, 50 Nell attack this mighty fleet but find 50 fighters on CAP.
You might lose at least half of them and possibly sink these worthless ships = BIG WIN [:'(] (for the Allies)

Re. the Zero M8 issue I do not pursue it (just like Oscar), stats are just to weak for my taste. 350 speed, 7 normal range with DTs, still only 27 DUR - only the weapons are worth it: I rather try to live with the M5 version for a (longer) while, try to get the Sam (granted this will take long) and invest in research for Frank/George/Jack - all land based IJN flyers can be upgraded to something better than the Zero.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Yes, with a normal range of 21, the ASW range is 10. [:D]

Yes for search and asw very good, however I doubt this long range will be usefull at all for nav strikes. Obvious reason is they like to fly into CAP. So lets say you find 3 AKLs with 2 AMs at 15 hexes, 50 Nell attack this mighty fleet but find 50 fighters on CAP.
You might lose at least half of them and possibly sink these worthless ships = BIG WIN [:'(] (for the Allies)

Re. the Zero M8 issue I do not pursue it (just like Oscar), stats are just to weak for my taste. 350 speed, 7 normal range with DTs, still only 27 DUR - only the weapons are worth it: I rather try to live with the M5 version for a (longer) while, try to get the Sam (granted this will take long) and invest in research for Frank/George/Jack - all land based IJN flyers can be upgraded to something better than the Zero.

Try to find a leader with good air skills who is not aggressive. Besides, offensively use them towards the enemy rear areas a little ways away from air bases if possible. Or have fighters near the target for escorts.

[Lowpe]

My first 8 hex strike -- Not nearly as rare as I thought then...this was my first in a PBEM game, Sept 24th 1942. We planted four 250kg bombs thru the flight deck.[:)]

[Speedysteve]

Nice Lowpe [:)]

Guys - Maybe I won't go for Nell 3 LOL[:'(]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Lowpe




Greater than 7 hex sweeps almost always fly.

Yes. I've had some success there. Have you ever seen a (per ITAKLinus's comments) a CV naval strike come off at >7 hexes?

All the time as Japan. I pretty much try very hard to maneuver for the 8 hex engagement all thru 1942.

In late 44 and later Allies have pulled off 8 hex naval cv strikes, but much rarer than Japan's frequency. We have talked about it a fair amount in AARs.

Well color me surprised. Didn't think this was possible let alone commonplace. [8D]

[ITAKLinus]

As far as I know, Japs attack as usual at 8 hexes and Allies at 7. There aren't many issues for a Jap strike at 8 beside coordination.

I thought Lowpe was speaking about allied strikes at 8 hexes, which are indeed rare from my experience

[Speedysteve]

Well Lexington sank the turn KB arrived off Canton Island. Scratch one flat-top.

A couple of other questions if I may?

1.) Engine production - Am I right in remembering that R&D 'production' doesn't need the engines to increase the arrival date (logically it would still be wise to produce the required number of engines anyhow to get the 500 pool bonus and so that once production begins I have the required engines too)? Can't see an easy way to work out engine needs other than manual addition[8|]

2.) Auxiliary craft - I can't remember what all of them do specifically[8|]

AD - helps repair of <DD craft?

AE - replenishes ammo less than BB class?

AG - ?

I remember what ACM and AR do.

Many thanks

[Q-Ball]

As the Empire, you will want to convert a whole bunch of ships to AKE; they are ammo replenishment. The difference is vs. AE is that AE can replenish underway, AKE cannot. Japan has no AE's. But good news is that you have tons of Aden-class you can convert to AKE; right away convert like 12-20. Both AKEs and AEs can provide BB ammo, btw....that's why you need them. Send them to forward ports for that purpose.

AV provides seaplane support at a base; can also carry and use 9 seaplanes for the ones you can convert. I think it's worth converting 6 or so on Turn 1. Just do Kyushu class, as they have cap of 9.

AGs are pretty worthless, don't bother

AS support subs; I don't think you really need to convert more, but use ones you have at sub bases. AKEs can also provide torps, they just don't help in sub repair.

ADs provide support to Destroyers, but they are redundant mostly with AKEs, which can also provide ammo for DDs plus any other ship. Don't convert any.

Hope that helps on auxillieries

[RangerJoe]

TENDERS and SUPPORT/AUXILLARY SHIP GUIDE

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2920431

What to Do With All Those Darn Tenders!

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... sk%2Cforce?

[RangerJoe]

links and info for new players

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4726264