ineffective artillery

SPWaW is a tactical squad-level World War II game on single platoon or up to an entire battalion through Europe and the Pacific (1939 to 1945).

Moderator: MOD_SPWaW

AmmoSgt
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Redstone Arsenal Al

Post by AmmoSgt »

Originally posted by Voriax
Chief, thanks for the reply.

One reason for my question is that a smart man in Finland developed arty practices during early 30's into level normally attributed to US arty only.
However lack of ammunition, guns and comm gear often reduced the effectiveness of Finnish arty.

And that effectiveness was main reason why the Sov attacks were stopped in '44...at best some 200 tubes were firing at an area of 2-3 football fields...breaking up Sov attacks before they even begun.

Voriax

And thats the whole point .. the US had the Guns, the commo, the ammo , the doctrine ( can't stress the doctrine enough , getting Bde and Div CO's to not try and hoard their arty for their sub units was a big part of this), the Training ( this won't work unless the Plt Sgt can call for what he needs and knows how to do it ) and the spotter Aircraft .. unlike any other nation on Earth.
Chief same process in the Pacific but different scale of Arty .. go back to the post with the link on the history of the 4.2 Mortar .. See what they could do with those on Beach landings .. Most the Heavy stuff was Naval .. Ships had the same basic Computer with added features of adjusting for ship movement in 3 axis and a direct register read into the turret , Big Suckers like BB's had a Electric powered Analog Computer weighting almost a ton with thousand of driveshafts and cams to account for 30 knots in a Buford 6 sea in a tight turn on a moving target doing same. Field Arty with the guns and ground in the same spot for hours at a time and a target sitting still for 5 minutes was truely simple stuff . Did I mention Spotter Aircraft ?
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
Voriax
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Finland

Post by Voriax »

Chief, check this for starters:
http://www.winterwar.com/forces/FinArmy/FINartiller.htm

Voriax
Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!
User avatar
chief
Posts: 1617
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Haines City FL, USA

Post by chief »

Ammo Sgt:

I yield to your wisdom on PTO art Management, thanks for enlightment.

Voriax:

Thanks for history lesson I'll be reading same.
"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief
User avatar
VikingNo2
Posts: 2872
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 10:00 am
Location: NC
Contact:

Post by VikingNo2 »

ANGLCO:D :D :D

From the Marines your welcome
AmmoSgt
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Redstone Arsenal Al

Post by AmmoSgt »

been tinkering with the OOB's in an attempt to get some WP

I changed the 4.2 Mortars weapon class from team Weapon to naplam.. now it shoots a flamed hex that blocks LOS better than smoke and starts fires .. left the HE kill and everything else the same , maybe be a bit to much on the graphic end .. will test later this week .

I also switched the 60mm mortars from Inf Mortar to just plain Mortar weapon class .. that added smoke to the US inf mortars

What I am thinking the way to go would be , since their are two identical 60mm mortar units is making one of them a 4.2 inch chemical mortar with WP and then leave the other 4.2 as it was originally ... report on testing later this week .
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
Voriax
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Finland

Post by Voriax »

Ammo, got the same idea after our discussion..but then the problem is that you can't get say 60:40 HE/napalm(WP) ammunition load...effectively you need duplicate units. One with normal he and smoke and the other with napalm.

Oc couse you could create a weapon that is napalm class, like the wurfrahmen rocket. Then give each squad two tubes, one normal and one napalm classed. But I'm not sure if both tubes fire indirectly.

Voriax
Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!
AmmoSgt
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Redstone Arsenal Al

Post by AmmoSgt »

yeah Vor it will be strictly a WP Mortar .. I figure with the duplicate 60mm moratrs in the Game I will make one a chem 4.2 with only WP the regular already in the game would have regular HE and smoke and the 60mm moved to regular mortar will have smoke and HE .. what I want to test is how long the flame lasts in different terrian.. and make sure the Napalm Catergory doesn't add too much suppresion .. I mean WP should have some extra suppression but not as much a a wulfraum rocket.. The Burn time for a WP shell is about 1 Minute at 2700C .. thats awfully hot and is pretty much gonna start a fire if their is ANYTHING flamable in a hex .. but Ideally I would hope for a shorter burn time in clear hexes and longer in the woods shorter in the rain longer dry .. I don't know if the game actually address that so I will test for Suppressive effects and burntimes .. did one quick salvo when I made the changes just to see if it would do the graphic .. 4 tubes firing ... WOW very impressive effects ..
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
Steve Wilcox
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Post by Steve Wilcox »

Re: US M2 60mm Mortars, I thought they didn't have regular smoke (only HE and IR), and didn't get the WP until late in the war. I checked in Infantry Mortars of WWII by John Norris and in the Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons of World War II by Ian V. Hogg. The first book just said "The M302 WP smoke was introduced late in the war." Does anyone know exactly when this was (in ASL they don't get it until 1945)? Or whether they did in fact have regular smoke as well? Or WP earlier? Any info is welcome. :confused:
AmmoSgt
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Redstone Arsenal Al

Post by AmmoSgt »

Steve The 4.2 WP was introduced in 1943 , the 101 jumped with 81mm WP at Normandy

http://www.101airborneww2.com/equipment.html

I cannot document ( right now) the exact date of entry of the 60mm WP round .. but I think it reasonable, since everything else had WP by Normandy that the 60mm had it by then at least, probably earlier. most likely late 43 / early 44.
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
Steve Wilcox
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Post by Steve Wilcox »

Thanks, Sarge! :)
Post Reply

Return to “Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns”