New features sound great, can't wait to try them out.
Thank you for yet another improvement to my favorite game.
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Fabs
So What Do You Think of the Upcoming Features in SPWaW v5.0 & Mega Campaign
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
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Christophe Jaureguiberry
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Dear Matrix Team,
I would like to adress a concern which has been lurking in my mind for a while now, and which is steadily growing as I read more and more posts in this forum:
Are you going to abandon SPWAW?
I am aware of the quandary you are in now. Everybody has to live and to devote major resources of a company to keep a free product updated is simply not commercially viable. To solve this problem, (I think) you are creating a new game, Combat Leader, that would be your intellectual property and that could be sold, thereby continuing your passion for wargaming and enabling you to prosper (or at least survive) financially.
The problem is: I am not interested in Combat Leader. I am not interested in it not because I think that CL is a bad product, but simply because SPWAW is an outstanding product that I enjoy playing very much, and which has been getting better and better thanks to your efforts. I do not feel like I am throwing a tantrum here (and if I am, please forgive me) but Steel Panthers has been around for more than 6 years, which for a computer game is an outstanding longevity. This resilience is due to the fact that players have always felt the enormous potential of this program, so much so that an impressive amount of people has been willing to pour an incredible amount of effort, FOR FREE, just to get it to perform as they (and we, the users) dreamed.
The game has also grown thanks to the labor of many "amateurs"(for want of a better word) who, with one scenario here, one campaign there, a few graphics, a website, have added to SPWAW a body of work which makes the game much greater than the program itself. Many of these amateurs started out with their own enthusiasm and ended up being "pros" at the game (I am thinking of people like Mr Wilder, for example). Should we switch to another game, such as CL, this body of work would disappear, creating a sense of loss not only for the people who have contributed to it, but also for all of us who have enjoyed their efforts.
I think I am not the only one who is uneasy. I think you (the Matrix Team) also feel it in the public, through remarks like: "I know you guys hate it when I say that!" when referring to a feature which cannot be included in SPWAW but would appear in CL. I believe that there is a certain passive resistance in the community to the concept of CL vs. SPWAW, mainly due to the reasons I have mentioned above.
The direction you are taking now with Mega-Campaigns that will be sold, thereby finally earning you a financial reward for all your hard work, is to be commended. It is my hope that the monetary gain you get from these campaigns will keep you interested in SPWAW and will enable you to keep adding to the seemingly endless list of features we all clamour for everytime someone posts a "Wish List" on the forum.
Barring that, if you really have to abandon SPWAW, you will have to transfer all the good things that made SPWAW work to CL, as well as eliminating its (few) weaknesses. A difficult proposition indeed, I sincerely hope it will not come to that.
Best Regards,
Christophe
I would like to adress a concern which has been lurking in my mind for a while now, and which is steadily growing as I read more and more posts in this forum:
Are you going to abandon SPWAW?
I am aware of the quandary you are in now. Everybody has to live and to devote major resources of a company to keep a free product updated is simply not commercially viable. To solve this problem, (I think) you are creating a new game, Combat Leader, that would be your intellectual property and that could be sold, thereby continuing your passion for wargaming and enabling you to prosper (or at least survive) financially.
The problem is: I am not interested in Combat Leader. I am not interested in it not because I think that CL is a bad product, but simply because SPWAW is an outstanding product that I enjoy playing very much, and which has been getting better and better thanks to your efforts. I do not feel like I am throwing a tantrum here (and if I am, please forgive me) but Steel Panthers has been around for more than 6 years, which for a computer game is an outstanding longevity. This resilience is due to the fact that players have always felt the enormous potential of this program, so much so that an impressive amount of people has been willing to pour an incredible amount of effort, FOR FREE, just to get it to perform as they (and we, the users) dreamed.
The game has also grown thanks to the labor of many "amateurs"(for want of a better word) who, with one scenario here, one campaign there, a few graphics, a website, have added to SPWAW a body of work which makes the game much greater than the program itself. Many of these amateurs started out with their own enthusiasm and ended up being "pros" at the game (I am thinking of people like Mr Wilder, for example). Should we switch to another game, such as CL, this body of work would disappear, creating a sense of loss not only for the people who have contributed to it, but also for all of us who have enjoyed their efforts.
I think I am not the only one who is uneasy. I think you (the Matrix Team) also feel it in the public, through remarks like: "I know you guys hate it when I say that!" when referring to a feature which cannot be included in SPWAW but would appear in CL. I believe that there is a certain passive resistance in the community to the concept of CL vs. SPWAW, mainly due to the reasons I have mentioned above.
The direction you are taking now with Mega-Campaigns that will be sold, thereby finally earning you a financial reward for all your hard work, is to be commended. It is my hope that the monetary gain you get from these campaigns will keep you interested in SPWAW and will enable you to keep adding to the seemingly endless list of features we all clamour for everytime someone posts a "Wish List" on the forum.
Barring that, if you really have to abandon SPWAW, you will have to transfer all the good things that made SPWAW work to CL, as well as eliminating its (few) weaknesses. A difficult proposition indeed, I sincerely hope it will not come to that.
Best Regards,
Christophe
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Graf Speer
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 8:00 am
Guys, I unfortunately have a feeling that the MEGA-campaigns will be available in the public domain as soon as you make the CD available. I'll buy a copy, out of the sake of loyalty to you, BUT I don't expect that you'll see much in the way of a return on this. You guys probably expect this, too, but I also know that the true hardcore fan base will honor their commitments.
Actuallu dude, it was my intention to order one copy of the game, send you guys $80 bucks for it and share it only with the games who would of given me their 20 bucks apeiece, i though it would save you on the cost of the cds, shipping etc. I was not stating that I was or anybody esle should pirate the game. Sorry for the misunderstandingOriginally posted by Paul Vebber:
To clarify, - "the game" is not for sale...the Mega-Campaigns are what we are selling, and likely a copy of all three of our free games will be included, since there is space on the CD...
SPWaW version 5 is and will remain free for the downlaod. You may also copy THE GAME and distribute it, but you MAY NOT COPY AND DISTRIBUTE THE MEGA-CAMPAIGNS.
If you want to buy 4 copies and give them out that is fine, or have your friends reimburse you, but PLEASE DON'T give out the games we sell!!
I've just had a look at the improvements planned for 5.0, and the least I can say, is that I am VERY impressed. That is a fantastic work, and I thank the whole Matrix team heartily.
One thing I would like to see added is the ability for a human player to deny the forced "end of battle" before the normal end in certain circomptances. This question has already been discussed in several threads. Perhaps as a preference ?
Then, I would like to urge you to carefully plan the logistics of the CD selling. Creating games and sending goods are 2 differents jobs, and I would not like to see Matrix spoil its very good work because of bad logistic. I am especially a bit anxious about how you will send those CDs to Europe or other far countries. For your information, its an actual hell to get a copy of "Combat Mission" in France at the moment.
At last, I would say that I am a bit sad to read that some of us are not interested in "Combat Leader" even before having tested the game. I love SPWAW, but, when I see the kind of work you've done with an already existing game, I can only be VERY eager to test a game that you will have designed from A to Z.
Long life to Matrix games ...
Silvarius.
One thing I would like to see added is the ability for a human player to deny the forced "end of battle" before the normal end in certain circomptances. This question has already been discussed in several threads. Perhaps as a preference ?
Then, I would like to urge you to carefully plan the logistics of the CD selling. Creating games and sending goods are 2 differents jobs, and I would not like to see Matrix spoil its very good work because of bad logistic. I am especially a bit anxious about how you will send those CDs to Europe or other far countries. For your information, its an actual hell to get a copy of "Combat Mission" in France at the moment.
At last, I would say that I am a bit sad to read that some of us are not interested in "Combat Leader" even before having tested the game. I love SPWAW, but, when I see the kind of work you've done with an already existing game, I can only be VERY eager to test a game that you will have designed from A to Z.
Long life to Matrix games ...
Silvarius.
Three points from Sivarius very interesting !Originally posted by Silvarius :
1)ability for a human player to deny the forced "end of battle" before the normal end in certain circomptances.
2)Then, I would like to urge you to carefully plan the logistics of the CD selling.
how you will send those CDs to Europe or other far countries.
3)At last, I would say that I am a bit sad to read that some of us are not interested in "Combat Leader" even before having tested the game.
a game that you will have designed from A to Z.
1)Actually this is quite possible in Advance or Assault playing..if you like to clear all enemy's crews spread all over the battlefield without being stopped from the decisive victory screen you have to leave some flags not conquered .so you gain turns and your troops killing enemy survivors (getting more experience for the campaign )...
when you think that is over you simply finish to go through objective flags..
This doesn't work if you are playing Delay or Defend so should be better that the forced end of a battle is prompted .
2) I agree wih his worries cause I live in Italy..I hope for a pre-planned ordering subscription for us that anticipates the weeks needed for CD-mailing time..as regards the efficiency about this mail shipping I would secure Sivarius and others :
I received an earlier version of SPWAW from US (EZCD company) without problems and I sent them dollars by mail-packet..I trusted them and they hadbeen honest !
3)well SPWAW can never be abandoned by their creators!!!..I am sure about this..it's a question of bloodhood ! simply it will have a period of long enjoyment by us ..as it is necessary I suppose..they told us they still will look at bugs and this is what SPWAW needs..a time to be understood and lived in all its parts !
As regards Christophe , I think CL is beeing designed by Matrix as a sort of maturity evolution of SPWAW not as a whole new thing ...as a programmer well knows , sometimes things are to be re-written in a wider mode in order to be more opened to flexibility..there is a level of complessity that raise exponentially if you have to keep a starting point alive if it is not prepared to be extended..so I think CL should be appreciated as it wants to be an offspring of SPWAW that goes beyond SPWAW.
I trust in CL because I saw here how much David , Paul and Bill , Figmo ,Warhorse and all the others cared about our suggestions
Many things should have been abandoned because they were not convertible into SPWAW engine cause to SPWAW code limits...
So starting from SPWAW and evoluting to CL should be considered a daring ( 'daring' should mean 'courageous' I hope..
) )test for them..
In addition to this they also have an economical payback to their efforts that is obvious needed and no more has to be added about this
So I would like people will help them in
the line of events Matrix decided to follow when she first started to work to SP3 !
Sincerely Francesco !
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
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David F. Wall
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Waltham, MA, USA
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Larry Holt
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA 30068
Great, I stay home sick on Friday and look what I miss! Great job Matrix!! I'm sorry to hear that smoke dischargers can't be worked into op fire but that's just the way life, err code is sometimes.
Have you looked at the way some infantry can go through barbed wire without delay?
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An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.
Have you looked at the way some infantry can go through barbed wire without delay?
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An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.
Never take counsel of your fears.
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David Heath
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:00 pm
Hi Guys
As always any bugs found we will try to fix. We do not want to stop all work on this but that is what it may come down to. Mega Campaigns are a way for us to pay our programmers. Bottom line is the two Mega Campaigns sales will show us how time and effort we can put into these projects and which way we need to go.
We do not want to drop this and we are not. We all love this game. The fact is we need to support our programmers. So lets just wait and see. Matrix has been there for the gamers and we will do our best never to let you down.
David Heath
As always any bugs found we will try to fix. We do not want to stop all work on this but that is what it may come down to. Mega Campaigns are a way for us to pay our programmers. Bottom line is the two Mega Campaigns sales will show us how time and effort we can put into these projects and which way we need to go.
We do not want to drop this and we are not. We all love this game. The fact is we need to support our programmers. So lets just wait and see. Matrix has been there for the gamers and we will do our best never to let you down.
David Heath
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Paul Vebber
- Posts: 5342
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 4:00 pm
- Location: Portsmouth RI
- Contact:
My comments were not meant to imply that anyone was advocating piricy, just that to reiterate that we are impacted to a much higher degree than most companies by piracy do the the small size of the market.
While its true that CD's are easily copied, that true of the efforts of BTS, Schwerepunt, Shrapnel and other small wargame companies. If we felt that there was no profit in it then we would not have started the company. If its true that the wargaming community will just pirate games amongst themselves and not pay, then its just a matter of time before wargaming is dead.
I simply want to make sure everyone understands that while we have encouraged sharing of SPWaW, if you value our commitment to SP:WaW in the future, then pirating the Mega Camapign is a sure way to make sure we are not able to provide the sort of support to SPWaW in the future.
Sorry if that comes of preachy or redundant, but we want tere to be no mistake about what we consider "free" and what is "for sale".
While its true that CD's are easily copied, that true of the efforts of BTS, Schwerepunt, Shrapnel and other small wargame companies. If we felt that there was no profit in it then we would not have started the company. If its true that the wargaming community will just pirate games amongst themselves and not pay, then its just a matter of time before wargaming is dead.
I simply want to make sure everyone understands that while we have encouraged sharing of SPWaW, if you value our commitment to SP:WaW in the future, then pirating the Mega Camapign is a sure way to make sure we are not able to provide the sort of support to SPWaW in the future.
Sorry if that comes of preachy or redundant, but we want tere to be no mistake about what we consider "free" and what is "for sale".
If anyone has a chance to answer some of the questions that have been asked thus far about version 5.0, it would be much appreciated. My specific questions, as stated above, relate to:
a.) Graphics updates
b.) Modifications of the AI in choosing tanks during the long campaign.
Thanks!
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Rob
a.) Graphics updates
b.) Modifications of the AI in choosing tanks during the long campaign.
Thanks!
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Rob
Rob
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Paul Vebber
- Posts: 5342
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 4:00 pm
- Location: Portsmouth RI
- Contact:
No we don't have any screenshots, most are added types of buildings, and a few other things.
I don't know the specifics of what was changed in the AI beyond what the notes say.
In general it seems to pick a more balanced force I just set up an 10000 pt German vs POland game and the poles had 11 infantry Cos, 6 btty of 75mm how support, 4 37mm AT btty, 1 Tank CO and 2 Armored Car plts
I don't know the specifics of what was changed in the AI beyond what the notes say.
In general it seems to pick a more balanced force I just set up an 10000 pt German vs POland game and the poles had 11 infantry Cos, 6 btty of 75mm how support, 4 37mm AT btty, 1 Tank CO and 2 Armored Car plts
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David Heath
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:00 pm
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Patrick Siebelink
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: Netherlands
- Contact:
To all things David mentioned on the website, I can add that there will be around 700 new LBM's in the game, both new units and corrected/improved pictures and that list is still growing...
What I would still want to see in the game are spotter planes (I know they were there, and removed as they were unrealistic but I still liked them
)
Also, improved, or dedicated CBF would be nice and during recent campaigns I have the feeling that some tanks tend to be to weak (like the T34, against which you do stand a change with your pzIII nowadays, but same for Tiger I etc.) could be wrong though..
Patrick
What I would still want to see in the game are spotter planes (I know they were there, and removed as they were unrealistic but I still liked them
)Also, improved, or dedicated CBF would be nice and during recent campaigns I have the feeling that some tanks tend to be to weak (like the T34, against which you do stand a change with your pzIII nowadays, but same for Tiger I etc.) could be wrong though..
Patrick
Just seen the list, wonderful !
I just have 2 things to ask, well one serious and one rather a joke
1. I guess the shipping is not included in the $20... for CM it was about $15 to send to Europe... think 'll try to find friends to buy several in once
2. Just for fun, since you included level bombers, can the 88's fire AA barrage to them
?
I just have 2 things to ask, well one serious and one rather a joke
1. I guess the shipping is not included in the $20... for CM it was about $15 to send to Europe... think 'll try to find friends to buy several in once
2. Just for fun, since you included level bombers, can the 88's fire AA barrage to them
?