At this point I can only be amused.

[Mr.Frag]

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

loaded a transport tf at rabaul like 4 turns ago with 3 nlf type infantry squads. Set the destination to dobrodura(sp). Well next turn, nothing is on the transport TF. So, thinking maybe I meant to do it but didn't actually do the move, I did it again. This time however, it seemed like I had less units at rabaul, but I wasn't positive and since I have a lot there, couldn't remember.

Check that your scenario doesn't have Dobrodura set as a Airfield ONLY.

I'm curious, what do you mean set as airfiled only?

It was one of the BASES set to AIRFIELD instead base ... it throws the shipping routines for a nightmare as far as the game is concerned, you can't get there by ship so the shipping just undoes your order each time you order it to go there.

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag



Check that your scenario doesn't have Dobrodura set as a Airfield ONLY.

I'm curious, what do you mean set as airfiled only?

It was one of the BASES set to AIRFIELD instead base ... it throws the shipping routines for a nightmare as far as the game is concerned, you can't get there by ship so the shipping just undoes your order each time you order it to go there.

So check this in the editor by loading up a save or what?

[Mr.Frag]

So check this in the editor by loading up a save or what?

Load up a save and just look at it ... does it read airfield or base?

[byron13]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Load up a save and just look at it ... does it read airfield or base?

Frag, the word "laconic" comes to mind when I read your posts.

[Mr.Frag]

Frag, the word "laconic" comes to mind when I read your posts.

I only have one hand that works properly, makes for "short" typing [;)]

[von Murrin]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Frag, the word "laconic" comes to mind when I read your posts.

I only have one hand that works properly, makes for "short" typing [;)]

Well, if you'd quit running SS in the backround you could take that other hand off the joystick.[:'(]

[Mr.Frag]

Well, if you'd quit running SS in the backround you could take that other hand off the joystick.

Oh, that one hurt ... I had my stroke that screwed up my arm exactly 3 days after I bought myself a full thrustmaster system (both sticks and pedals). I got to use it *once* ever. Gave it away shortly after. I'm a mouse boy now, no sticks. [:(]

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

ORIGINAL: rroberson

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

The odds of B-17's flying in an extended range roll against a CV which probably had cap flying without search and escort is pretty small. Thats a lot of negative mods to overcome.

I guess I am going to have to start learning to manipulate the numbers to correctly play this game. I actually have mixed feelings about that. I have always felt the point of a sim was to give you the assets and set you free. You shouldnt have to worry about what's under the hood. Bomber fly, ships sail and soldiers shoot. I spent a couple of decades playing board games like squad leader (or some of the SPI monsters) where you had to manipulate all the numbers and memorize giant sized rule books to play the game. The beauty of a computer is that you shouldnt have to. Ah well....at least I dont have to worry about my cat blasting a hole through my defensive perimeter.

I still would like to get someone to take a look at our database and see if it is corrupt somehow. We have been warned all along that we probably needed to restart after the first patch and we did not, and even though i can chalk up my bombers and the loss of my carriers to my own incompetance and lack of willingness to learn the gamey parts of this sim, I like playing with reiyc alot (he is a damn efficent emporer the bastard! [:'(]) but the 2 year committment to a screwed database is a bit much to overcome. I have had other things a long the way (like aks appearing in the middle of no where)....

Actually, I think our database is screwed.

I loaded a transport tf at rabaul like 4 turns ago with 3 nlf type infantry squads. Set the destination to dobrodura(sp). Well next turn, nothing is on the transport TF. So, thinking maybe I meant to do it but didn't actually do the move, I did it again. This time however, it seemed like I had less units at rabaul, but I wasn't positive and since I have a lot there, couldn't remember.

So I know I loaded them a second time.

Next turn shows up and they aren't loaded or heading toward dobrodura either. Shit. Load them up a third time and now I'm down to like 5 infantry type units on rabaul and I know I had more than just 5.

So, it would appear our data base is screwy. I'm still willing to play, but will restart if you'd like, maybe when the patch comes out.

If we decide to restart, you be japan, I'm tired of redoing the all the moves necessary to capture islands/bases at the start! [:'(]

HA! You are the best Japanese player I have played...in four games...(Xargun's restart is a close second). Your moves are so efficient it set me back on my heels quickly and made me take risks that I wouldnt of dreamt of normally.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

loaded a transport tf at rabaul like 4 turns ago with 3 nlf type infantry squads. Set the destination to dobrodura(sp). Well next turn, nothing is on the transport TF. So, thinking maybe I meant to do it but didn't actually do the move, I did it again. This time however, it seemed like I had less units at rabaul, but I wasn't positive and since I have a lot there, couldn't remember.

Check that your scenario doesn't have Dobrodura set as a Airfield ONLY.

I'm curious, what do you mean set as airfiled only?

Dobrodura doesn't have a port in the initial game release. If you click on the base you will see that the port level is '0' and cannot be expanded.

[Ron Saueracker]

Rob. Your are THE risk taker. I don't think I've seen another player who plays like the is no tomorrow.[:D]

[von Murrin]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Well, if you'd quit running SS in the backround you could take that other hand off the joystick.

Oh, that one hurt ... I had my stroke that screwed up my arm exactly 3 days after I bought myself a full thrustmaster system (both sticks and pedals). I got to use it *once* ever. Gave it away shortly after. I'm a mouse boy now, no sticks. [:(]

Aww... Sorry to bring that back. I didn't know and was just poking fun.[:o]

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Your aircraft did strike lunga on the previous turn when I didn't have zeros there on cap. When I put up a good size cap, I noticed there was no attack from you the next turn.

Exactly! remember all the cries about unescorted strikes getting pumelled time and again in UV? Everyone asked that bomber groups be more intelligent about flying into enemy territory without escorts. Well now we've got it, so time to adjust your play style and think about getting those bomber flyboys some cover.

These guys know there are hundreds of Japanese zeroes protecting that CV task force and are not going to fly even if you do have an Air HQ, size 5+ airfield and enough AV support for an entire air wing. There isn't a problem with the database, in fact this is a GOOD result in my opinion. Bombers should not fly unescorted missions unless they know there is no enemy CAP, so recon your targets first and let them see for themselves. My guess is they'll fly a lot more often if they find some unprotected targets.

Jim

[DJAndrews]

Its probably just as well that they won't fly. If they did, you would in all likelihood be unhappy with the results.

With 37 B-17s flying at almost their maximum range (for this size airfield) the most aircraft that would probably fly would be 15-20. These would be attacking a TF at sea with a constant CAP. Level bomber rarely hit ships at sea, they do better in ports or at landing beaches, but in this case you'd be lucky to get 1-2 bomb hits (none is more likely). Unless they are critcal hits on a CV, the TF will be essentially unaffected by the raid.

I agree, it would be nice to scare the ***** out of your opponent, but don't expect too much.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Your aircraft did strike lunga on the previous turn when I didn't have zeros there on cap. When I put up a good size cap, I noticed there was no attack from you the next turn.

Exactly! remember all the cries about unescorted strikes getting pumelled time and again in UV? Everyone asked that bomber groups be more intelligent about flying into enemy territory without escorts. Well now we've got it, so time to adjust your play style and think about getting those bomber flyboys some cover.

These guys know there are hundreds of Japanese zeroes protecting that CV task force and are not going to fly even if you do have an Air HQ, size 5+ airfield and enough AV support for an entire air wing. There isn't a problem with the database, in fact this is a GOOD result in my opinion. Bombers should not fly unescorted missions unless they know there is no enemy CAP, so recon your targets first and let them see for themselves. My guess is they'll fly a lot more often if they find some unprotected targets.

Jim

Diasagree almost entirely. You only need to look at the battle of Midway to see that you are wrong. Bomber after bomber attacked those carriers sans escort in most cases. The sacrifice those men made to lay a weapon into the flight deck of a carrier remains amazing to me to this day. The bottom line is when you have an opportunity to hurt the enemy, no matter how slight, you should be able t take it. If he is willing to put his carriers within range of my LBA, i should be able to at least take a poke at him...as any war commander should...sans cap with cap...or whatever.

[rroberson]

ORIGINAL: DJAndrews

Its probably just as well that they won't fly. If they did, you would in all likelihood be unhappy with the results.

With 37 B-17s flying at almost their maximum range (for this size airfield) the most aircraft that would probably fly would be 15-20. These would be attacking a TF at sea with a constant CAP. Level bomber rarely hit ships at sea, they do better in ports or at landing beaches, but in this case you'd be lucky to get 1-2 bomb hits (none is more likely). Unless they are critcal hits on a CV, the TF will be essentially unaffected by the raid.

I agree, it would be nice to scare the ***** out of your opponent, but don't expect too much.

Scaring the crap out of him would be my point. I don't expect to leave carrier shaped holes in the water....Level bombers suck (at least during this phase of the war) when operating against naval units. The point is, I have assets who should be able to fly against his assets. Should I get a lucky hit great...likely not...but they should at least get airborne.

[Mr.Frag]

Planes will fly on "suicidal" raids just on the off chance that something gets through. Additionally, instead of a fixed ratio of escort to cap, there is simply a check now to see that there is some escort assigned. It no longer forces you to have an overpowering cap for the strike mission to fly.

[anarchyintheuk]

True, but for game purposes the cv pilots at midway probably had a higher morale than 63. I don't think the B-17s at midway would have thrilled to come in at 6k either. The program, like it or not, makes it pretty impossible for 4-engined bombers to attack cv taskforces. Going back to what Reiryc said about UV's problem with unescorted/kamikazi attacks by LBA's, I generally prefer WITP's system.

[dtravel]

Well, all I can say is that if Mr. Grigsby is reading this thread he must be thinking "Ah, my game is working perfectly!" because none of the players know WTF is going on!!! [:'(][:D][:D]


(And before you get mad at me, rroberson, just remember. I've been in almost exactly the same situation myself. [8|])

[eMonticello]

Actually, the Midway CO didn't send out the B17s until he "confirmed" the enemy force using his own search aircraft (PBY and B17). I'd suggest sending an AV/D/P to Cairns so you can keep a PBY group there. Also, the B17s and B26s were sent to Midway specifically to defend Midway from invasion ... so it makes perfect sense that they would take greater than normal risks. Oh, and they made their attack between 8,000 feet (against the transports) to 20,000 feet (against the carriers).

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN ... way-4.html

Here's PDF of the Air Action over New Guinea from the AAF Historical Archives. Incidently, a lot of these reports are available to copy from the various military archives.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAFHS/AAF-HS-17.pdf

ORIGINAL: rroberson

Diasagree almost entirely. You only need to look at the battle of Midway to see that you are wrong. Bomber after bomber attacked those carriers sans escort in most cases. The sacrifice those men made to lay a weapon into the flight deck of a carrier remains amazing to me to this day. The bottom line is when you have an opportunity to hurt the enemy, no matter how slight, you should be able t take it. If he is willing to put his carriers within range of my LBA, i should be able to at least take a poke at him...as any war commander should...sans cap with cap...or whatever.

[Mr.Frag]

Actually, the Midway CO didn't send out the B17s until he "confirmed" the enemy force using his own search aircraft (PBY and B17).

They also didn't fly out to extreme range to do so. [;)]